Rebuilding Strategy Discussion

we should draft this guy at number 2 especially if browns draft garrett. this guy is a beast!!

I don't think shanny or lynch have a set date for us to be Superbowl contenders. They aren't gonna mortgage the future on a trade and they are gonna build the team at whatever pace it happens to be. They being said one or two great drafts and we are there ya know?

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Just to bring a little discussion the webzone on what's been a slow news day so far, I've got a little something-something to get everyone talking:
Few questions for everyone:
1. Do we want to draft a FS early (Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Obi Melifonwu) in order to keep Ward at CB, or move him and wait to draft a FS?
2. Do we want Tramaine Brock, would we rather see if he has trade value, or cut him?
3. Trubisky @ 2, Mahomes @ 34, Peterman in 3rd/4th, none of the above? (Rank in order)
4. Do we need a 6'2"+ WR this year, by next year, or at all?
5. Would you ever draft Joe Mixon? (we were at the pro day)
6. Would you give up a 6th or 7th for Josh Gordon to avoid his market once the Browns cut him ($1M salary this year)?
7. Biggest need in the 1st round?
8. Best FA next year? (exclude Cousins, we all want him)
9. Can Arik Armstead work in the 4-3?
10. What remaining FA would you like to bring in most?

Those are good questions in general but they are more about tactics - responses to particular circumstances of opportunities and competition. I think the OP is asking about strategic approaches - long range goals and philosophies. I think it may muddle things up too much if the discussion mixes up tactical options with strategic options. There are probably other threads where your questions fit the purpose of the thread starter better.

Good point, I'm a new member, but long time 49er fan. I can't create threads or find one that fits the basis of questions better than this. If you start one with a title better fit, I will repost because I am interested to see opinions on these questions. Thanks! and btw, good post by the OP!

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Just to bring a little discussion the webzone on what's been a slow news day so far, I've got a little something-something to get everyone talking:
Few questions for everyone:
1. Do we want to draft a FS early (Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Obi Melifonwu) in order to keep Ward at CB, or move him and wait to draft a FS?
2. Do we want Tramaine Brock, would we rather see if he has trade value, or cut him?
3. Trubisky @ 2, Mahomes @ 34, Peterman in 3rd/4th, none of the above? (Rank in order)
4. Do we need a 6'2"+ WR this year, by next year, or at all?
5. Would you ever draft Joe Mixon? (we were at the pro day)
6. Would you give up a 6th or 7th for Josh Gordon to avoid his market once the Browns cut him ($1M salary this year)?
7. Biggest need in the 1st round?
8. Best FA next year? (exclude Cousins, we all want him)
9. Can Arik Armstead work in the 4-3?
10. What remaining FA would you like to bring in most?

1. I have been a fan of Ward and his play when healthy. I have confidence that he could be an excellent FS for this team. That said, Hooker has greatness in him. I would not be mad if he were the choice.
2. I don't see any need to keep Brock. Let's let Robinson, Redmond, Williams, Johnson, etc. see what they can do.
3. I honestly have no idea. I don't really like any of the QBs in this draft but I won't pretend that means anything.
4. Yes and yes. This offense needs a big, strong possession receiver.
5. No. Character matters, especially in a rebuild.
6. No, see #5
7. Pass rush
8. How about Taylor Gabriel?
9. Yes, I believe that he, when healthy, can be a fantastic force.
10. Domata Peko.

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Just to bring a little discussion the webzone on what's been a slow news day so far, I've got a little something-something to get everyone talking:
Few questions for everyone:
1. Do we want to draft a FS early (Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker, Obi Melifonwu) in order to keep Ward at CB, or move him and wait to draft a FS?
2. Do we want Tramaine Brock, would we rather see if he has trade value, or cut him?
3. Trubisky @ 2, Mahomes @ 34, Peterman in 3rd/4th, none of the above? (Rank in order)
4. Do we need a 6'2"+ WR this year, by next year, or at all?
5. Would you ever draft Joe Mixon? (we were at the pro day)
6. Would you give up a 6th or 7th for Josh Gordon to avoid his market once the Browns cut him ($1M salary this year)?
7. Biggest need in the 1st round?
8. Best FA next year? (exclude Cousins, we all want him)
9. Can Arik Armstead work in the 4-3?
10. What remaining FA would you like to bring in most?

Those are good questions in general but they are more about tactics - responses to particular circumstances of opportunities and competition. I think the OP is asking about strategic approaches - long range goals and philosophies. I think it may muddle things up too much if the discussion mixes up tactical options with strategic options. There are probably other threads where your questions fit the purpose of the thread starter better.

Good point, I'm a new member, but long time 49er fan. I can't create threads or find one that fits the basis of questions better than this. If you start one with a title better fit, I will repost because I am interested to see opinions on these questions. Thanks! and btw, good post by the OP!

I edited my post to reflect that the muddle between tactical and strategic seems to be well under way, so I think it's safe to ignore my post. You might try also asking your questions in this thread: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/187944-2017-team-information-needs/page17/

Originally posted by edp415:

we should draft this guy at number 2 especially if browns draft garrett. this guy is a beast!!

+1

Originally posted by NCommand:

Terrific post and topic. To me, and I've been saying this for years esp. re: the HaRoman era, everything starts with philosophy. You are describing a current Patriots culture but Bill Walsh created it first. But Walsh couldn't create the machine until he had a philosophy and his philosophy, like Kyle today, is the WCO. On defense, it's the 4-3 under (George Seifert). Now that you have your modern-day battle-tested philosophies, NOW you review your personnel.

Year 1, ShanaLynch walk in and see we're the youngest team in the NFL with older players like Dawson, Bethea, Brooks, Dorsey, etc. all but done. So what's missing? Veterans! Let's go get some 25-29 year old veterans who know our systems/philosophies who can help install the systems in year 1 and start passing that knowledge onto this young group. Then, add more young talent via the draft who will come into the fold and learn from the current players who are learning from the veterans who are being reinforced by the coaches who are reinforced by their philosophies. Now you've laid your foundation in year 1.

PLAN: Remember, these philosophies will take 3 years to learn and master (esp. the WCO) so let's target veterans on offense and since the 4-3 will take less time to master, focus that more on the draft.

Year 2, will be about purging the bottom of the roster, helping players make leaps into year 2, and adding a few premier players at key positions. Now you're starting to see some cornerstones taking on more leadership. The machine is starting to move down hill and is picking up some pace.

Year 3, depth is pushing starters hard, more impact players are added and both the WCO and 4-3 is getting close to being fully mastered. This is a playoff caliber team.

Year 4, commentators are asking when injuries happen, "Is it the system or the players? They just don't miss a beat!"

~ the truth is, it's both, but it all started with a philosophy ~

Exactly! Until the team left behind the inferior systems ( or "philosophies ") a lot of good players couldn't develop and fell through the cracks. in a well executed WCO, good players become exceptional. I remember how players like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac came in and were worldbeater's, throwing for 300 yards.
The key , at this early stage , has to be a culture that promotes precise execution from everyone. The players must insist on excellence among themselves, seeing mediocrity as detestable.
when the WCO is clicking, it is a machine, a thing of beauty! We are solidly on track to seeing it again!

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Terrific post and topic. To me, and I've been saying this for years esp. re: the HaRoman era, everything starts with philosophy. You are describing a current Patriots culture but Bill Walsh created it first. But Walsh couldn't create the machine until he had a philosophy and his philosophy, like Kyle today, is the WCO. On defense, it's the 4-3 under (George Seifert). Now that you have your modern-day battle-tested philosophies, NOW you review your personnel.

Year 1, ShanaLynch walk in and see we're the youngest team in the NFL with older players like Dawson, Bethea, Brooks, Dorsey, etc. all but done. So what's missing? Veterans! Let's go get some 25-29 year old veterans who know our systems/philosophies who can help install the systems in year 1 and start passing that knowledge onto this young group. Then, add more young talent via the draft who will come into the fold and learn from the current players who are learning from the veterans who are being reinforced by the coaches who are reinforced by their philosophies. Now you've laid your foundation in year 1.

PLAN: Remember, these philosophies will take 3 years to learn and master (esp. the WCO) so let's target veterans on offense and since the 4-3 will take less time to master, focus that more on the draft.

Year 2, will be about purging the bottom of the roster, helping players make leaps into year 2, and adding a few premier players at key positions. Now you're starting to see some cornerstones taking on more leadership. The machine is starting to move down hill and is picking up some pace.

Year 3, depth is pushing starters hard, more impact players are added and both the WCO and 4-3 is getting close to being fully mastered. This is a playoff caliber team.

Year 4, commentators are asking when injuries happen, "Is it the system or the players? They just don't miss a beat!"

~ the truth is, it's both, but it all started with a philosophy ~

Exactly! Until the team left behind the inferior systems ( or "philosophies ") a lot of good players couldn't develop and fell through the cracks. in a well executed WCO, good players become exceptional. I remember how players like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac came in and were worldbeater's, throwing for 300 yards.
The key , at this early stage , has to be a culture that promotes precise execution from everyone. The players must insist on excellence among themselves, seeing mediocrity as detestable.
when the WCO is clicking, it is a machine, a thing of beauty! We are solidly on track to seeing it again!

Every great team has great leadership and excels at what they do. It's a process and I think it's a necessity to have guys who can teach along with the coaches. Exact reason I loved the Hoyer signing.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by edp415:

we should draft this guy at number 2 especially if browns draft garrett. this guy is a beast!!

+1

Solomon or Alabama's Allen. I'd take either, but i bet Allen got better coaching. They just have a machine over there that keeps cranking out good DL, LBs, DBs, As well as OL and RBs.

I want us to trade down numerous times, if Garrett goes number 1. I want us to get a good LEO, and at least 2 O-lineman early in the draft. Best way to get good quality, is to get them early in the draft, so trading down would net us more early picks. Also would like to see us draft someone capable of being a #1 WR type.

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:
I want us to trade down numerous times, if Garrett goes number 1. I want us to get a good LEO, and at least 2 O-lineman early in the draft. Best way to get good quality, is to get them early in the draft, so trading down would net us more early picks. Also would like to see us draft someone capable of being a #1 WR type.

Really bad Oline draft...teams are going to reach for avg guys.

Originally posted by miked1978:

Unfortunately many of our fanbase will get upset if no playoffs in year 2. Heck even our owner. If you are going to do it right you are looking at a 5 year job.

If it will take 5 years for this team to get competetive should they even consider Cousins as the FQB. I think getting Cousins would mean they want to be real contenders by year three.

Is there still a decent C in FA ?

Beautifully written Karma. The 3rd scenario is probably the best way to rebuild. The first year is establishing our culture and philosophy. That is why we added players that played and know the system, to show the other guys how it is done. We also picked up players that will fit into our scheme perfectly. The draft will add to that with players that live and breath football, have high character attributes, and fit into what we wanna accomplish as a football team. The biggest leap that this team and any rebuilding team is to find that generational player. We had that in Willis imo but unfortunately he is retired and would've been too old to become that guy now if he is still around. We do not have to find that player right away because besides maybe Garrett, there's no one here that screams generational.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Is there still a decent C in FA ?

If Lamp can Snap, yes.