Which current 49ers fit in a 4-3 defense, which don't, and what will it look like

I like this read on the new defense. Buckner playing the Bennet role makes sense as I agree that he could be our best 2 gap lineman and could be a beast next year. Armstead as a one gap DT plays to his strength and I really hope we see him healthy because I think he's going to come into the season pissed he lost a year in which it looks like he was ready to take the next step pre injury.

Originally posted by NTeply49:
Mostly concerned with the front 7. I know we were missing some of the key components to make the 4-3 viable. Specifically at nose tackle and after Bowman was injured we did not have the level of play needed at ILB to be effective. I have a few questions for you guys.

I feel like Dorsey can move inside to nose tackle and Buckner can remain at DE, but where does Armstead fit in?
Will Carradine be more effective at Defensive end, or does the other spot go to Lynch?
Can Lynch be a stand up linebacker in a 4-3?
Does Bowman stay at ILB or move to OLB?
Besides talent, what key component are we missing to make our defense decent again?
What key free agents would be most desirable for us now that we've made the switch?

These are my concerns. What are yours?

We are missing prototypical 43 ends......Buckner / Armstead were drafted to be 34 ends for a reason.
Lynch / Tank are back ups at best and Bowman should remain at ILB if healthy. To be honest, we only have 2 maybe 3 starters in the front 7 ( Buckner and Bowman if healthy) that can make the transition. Our new 43 needs pass rushing ends and run stuffing D tackles. Lets not forget we set a franchise record in the worst way for a defense and now we're just changing scheme not players!

Originally posted by dsmith_49erz:

Originally posted by NTeply49:

Mostly concerned with the front 7. I know we were missing some of the key components to make the 4-3 viable. Specifically at nose tackle and after Bowman was injured we did not have the level of play needed at ILB to be effective. I have a few questions for you guys.

I feel like Dorsey can move inside to nose tackle and Buckner can remain at DE, but where does Armstead fit in?
Will Carradine be more effective at Defensive end, or does the other spot go to Lynch?
Can Lynch be a stand up linebacker in a 4-3?
Does Bowman stay at ILB or move to OLB?
Besides talent, what key component are we missing to make our defense decent again?
What key free agents would be most desirable for us now that we've made the switch?

These are my concerns. What are yours?

We are missing prototypical 43 ends......Buckner / Armstead were drafted to be 34 ends for a reason.
Lynch / Tank are back ups at best and Bowman should remain at ILB if healthy. To be honest, we only have 2 maybe 3 starters in the front 7 ( Buckner and Bowman if healthy) that can make the transition. Our new 43 needs pass rushing ends and run stuffing D tackles. Lets not forget we set a franchise record in the worst way for a defense and now we're just changing scheme not players!

It doesn't look like we're going to run a traditional 4-3 though. The D ends are vastly different in a 4-3 under. We desperately (please God let Garrett fall to 2) need a LEO. The outside speed rusher with his hand in the dirt. AA can one gap from the weak side DT lined up between the gourd and LT. We also need an A gap DT who would be like a NT in a 3-4. Hopefully they can land Williams or Poe in FA. Buckner could be a very good 2 technique strong side DE.

Strong Side Defensive End
DeForest Buckner would be a monster in this role. The Seahawks now play Michael Bennett there, and he is a disruptive penetrator in the C gap as a 5T. Quinton Dial makes sense as depth here, but he'd be a far less dynamic presence. His ability to two-gap would provide gap integrity (all gaps accounted for) without safety help.

1T
The 49ers don't have one of these. Like, at all. With Glenn Dorsey and an injured Ian Williams ...Brandon Williams and Dontari Poe.

3T
This is where Arik Armstead belongs.

LEO
The 49ers really, REALLY need a dynamic, quick-twitch edge rusher. Ahmad Brooks, Melvin Ingram makes a lot of sense in free agency, Myles Garrett and Takkarist McKinley. The 49ers might believe this position is a last chance option for Tank Carradine, Ronald Blair

SAM
Remember that whole thing about a SAM being a failed 3-4 OLB that doesn't give you much as a pass rusher, but who is able to do all of the other stuff? If that didn't scream, "Eli Harold!" but Ahmad Brooks

MIKE
Um, duh. Navorro Bowman, he could compete with Ray-Ray Armstrong at WILL if Bowman is healthy.

WILL
This position is a near perfect fit for Ray-Ray Armstrong.

Cornerback
Tramaine Brock isn't a popular guy Rashard Robinson, Dontae Johnson, Will Redmond

Free Safety
Jimmie Ward.

Strong Safety
Jaquiski Tartt. Neither Eric Reid nor Antoine Bethea can be counted on as a physical presence.

Aaron is saying:

LDE: Michael Bennett vs. DeForest Bucnkner; Quinton Dial
LDT (1T): Ahtyba Trubin vs. Quinton Dial; but ideally, Dontari Poe/Brandon Williams
RDT (3T): Jarran Reed vs. Arik Armstead; Glenn Dorsey
RDE (LEO): Cliff Avril vs. Aaron Lynch/Ahmad Brooks; Ronald Blair/Tank Carradine but ideally Melvin Ingram/Myles Garrett
LOLB (SAM): Michael Morgan vs. Eli Harold; Ahmad Brooks
MLB (MIKE): Bobby Wagner vs. Navarro Bowman
WLB (WILL): KJ Wright vs. Ray-Ray Armstrong; Gerald Hodges
LCB: Richard Sherman vs. Rashard Robinson
RCB: DeShawn Shead vs. Tramaine Brock
SLOT/CB: Jeremy Lane vs. Will Redmond
FS: Earl Thomas vs. Jimmie Ward
SS: Kam Chancellor vs. Jaquiski Tartt

Originally posted by walker807:
It doesn't look like we're going to run a traditional 4-3 though. The D ends are vastly different in a 4-3 under. We desperately (please God let Garrett fall to 2) need a LEO. The outside speed rusher with his hand in the dirt. AA can one gap from the weak side DT lined up between the gourd and LT. We also need an A gap DT who would be like a NT in a 3-4. Hopefully they can land Williams or Poe in FA. Buckner could be a very good 2 technique strong side DE.

You nailed it. Gold star for you today!

Originally posted by btthepunk:
I don't think any of our defensive players can't play in a 4-3. I don't think DB's for the most part do really anything different. I know some of yall will disagree with that.

Ikr isn't 4-3 what they mostly do in college anyway

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Draftology:

My only concern is with Armstead. I just don't see having both him and Buckner on the field in a 4-3. I think we're going to add another edge rusher and Armstead becomes a rotational/situational player.

That would mean that he's a bust. You don't draft 1st round rotational guys. But going into his 3rd season (on season full of injury) it's still too early to label him a bust, or relegate him to rotational status. Now, I think we should bring in other guys to compete. But Armstead should be given every opportunity to prove his draft status. IMHO.

It's not saying he's a bust...it's just saying Buckner is better and our defensive scheme may only call for one player with their skill set being on the field at a time. We shouldn't play him out of position because "he has to prove his draft status". We should put the best combination of 11 guys out there and it may not include Armstead most of the time.

LOL @ Armstead two gapping ITT.

Lets get real guys.

Originally posted by Draftology:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Draftology:
My only concern is with Armstead. I just don't see having both him and Buckner on the field in a 4-3. I think we're going to add another edge rusher and Armstead becomes a rotational/situational player.

That would mean that he's a bust. You don't draft 1st round rotational guys. But going into his 3rd season (on season full of injury) it's still too early to label him a bust, or relegate him to rotational status. Now, I think we should bring in other guys to compete. But Armstead should be given every opportunity to prove his draft status. IMHO.

It's not saying he's a bust...it's just saying Buckner is better and our defensive scheme may only call for one player with their skill set being on the field at a time. We shouldn't play him out of position because "he has to prove his draft status". We should put the best combination of 11 guys out there and it may not include Armstead most of the time.

Agreed. Plus, like Seattle, we'll use a heavy rotation as well. So perhaps AA works in as situational pass rusher at first and slowly works himself into a more prominent role as he gets stronger/healthier/more familiar with the 4-3 scheme.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Strong Side Defensive End
DeForest Buckner would be a monster in this role. The Seahawks now play Michael Bennett there, and he is a disruptive penetrator in the C gap as a 5T. Quinton Dial makes sense as depth here, but he'd be a far less dynamic presence. His ability to two-gap would provide gap integrity (all gaps accounted for) without safety help.

1T
The 49ers don't have one of these. Like, at all. With Glenn Dorsey and an injured Ian Williams ...Brandon Williams and Dontari Poe.

3T
This is where Arik Armstead belongs.

LEO
The 49ers really, REALLY need a dynamic, quick-twitch edge rusher. Ahmad Brooks, Melvin Ingram makes a lot of sense in free agency, Myles Garrett and Takkarist McKinley. The 49ers might believe this position is a last chance option for Tank Carradine, Ronald Blair

SAM
Remember that whole thing about a SAM being a failed 3-4 OLB that doesn't give you much as a pass rusher, but who is able to do all of the other stuff? If that didn't scream, "Eli Harold!" but Ahmad Brooks

MIKE
Um, duh. Navorro Bowman, he could compete with Ray-Ray Armstrong at WILL if Bowman is healthy.

WILL
This position is a near perfect fit for Ray-Ray Armstrong.

Cornerback
Tramaine Brock isn't a popular guy Rashard Robinson, Dontae Johnson, Will Redmond

Free Safety
Jimmie Ward.

Strong Safety
Jaquiski Tartt. Neither Eric Reid nor Antoine Bethea can be counted on as a physical presence.

Aaron is saying:

LDE: Michael Bennett vs. DeForest Bucnkner; Quinton Dial
LDT (1T): Ahtyba Trubin vs. Quinton Dial; but ideally, Dontari Poe/Brandon Williams
RDT (3T): Jarran Reed vs. Arik Armstead; Glenn Dorsey
RDE (LEO): Cliff Avril vs. Aaron Lynch/Ahmad Brooks; Ronald Blair/Tank Carradine but ideally Melvin Ingram/Myles Garrett
LOLB (SAM): Michael Morgan vs. Eli Harold; Ahmad Brooks
MLB (MIKE): Bobby Wagner vs. Navarro Bowman
WLB (WILL): KJ Wright vs. Ray-Ray Armstrong; Gerald Hodges
LCB: Richard Sherman vs. Rashard Robinson
RCB: DeShawn Shead vs. Tramaine Brock
SLOT/CB: Jeremy Lane vs. Will Redmond
FS: Earl Thomas vs. Jimmie Ward
SS: Kam Chancellor vs. Jaquiski Tartt

Well I hope he's right about Buckner and Armstead because this team will REALLY need them to take the next step. I also agree with the author's position that the 49ers biggest need on defense in FA will be the 1T tackle. If they were to land a good quality guy I believe it's going to make Buckner and, in particular, Armstead look that much better.

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Well I hope he's right about Buckner and Armstead because this team will REALLY need them to take the next step. I also agree with the author's position that the 49ers biggest need on defense in FA will be the 1T tackle. If they were to land a good quality guy I believe it's going to make Buckner and, in particular, Armstead look that much better.

OMG yes...whether we stayed in the 3-4 or 4-3, we BADLY need a real NT. I'm all in on NT/DT/1T Brandon Williams or Dontari Poe. It would cost $8-9.2M but it would be worth every penny (like Damon Harrison last year). Then you just need your dominant LEO/pass rusher...Garrett/Ingram. The positive rippled effect from these two transactions would be enormous. Suddenly everyone next to them and behind them look soooo much better.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
LOL @ Armstead two gapping ITT.

Lets get real guys.

Two gapping is all he and Buckner did in college.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Well I hope he's right about Buckner and Armstead because this team will REALLY need them to take the next step. I also agree with the author's position that the 49ers biggest need on defense in FA will be the 1T tackle. If they were to land a good quality guy I believe it's going to make Buckner and, in particular, Armstead look that much better.

OMG yes...whether we stayed in the 3-4 or 4-3, we BADLY need a real NT. I'm all in on NT/DT/1T Brandon Williams or Dontari Poe. It would cost $8-9.2M but it would be worth every penny (like Damon Harrison last year). Then you just need your dominant LEO/pass rusher...Garrett/Ingram. The positive rippled effect from these two transactions would be enormous. Suddenly everyone next to them and behind them look soooo much better.

Right on!

Totally agree with this...I believe this should be the primary concern as far as free agency is concerned for the team this offseason.

Originally posted by Niner4ever:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Well I hope he's right about Buckner and Armstead because this team will REALLY need them to take the next step. I also agree with the author's position that the 49ers biggest need on defense in FA will be the 1T tackle. If they were to land a good quality guy I believe it's going to make Buckner and, in particular, Armstead look that much better.

OMG yes...whether we stayed in the 3-4 or 4-3, we BADLY need a real NT. I'm all in on NT/DT/1T Brandon Williams or Dontari Poe. It would cost $8-9.2M but it would be worth every penny (like Damon Harrison last year). Then you just need your dominant LEO/pass rusher...Garrett/Ingram. The positive rippled effect from these two transactions would be enormous. Suddenly everyone next to them and behind them look soooo much better.

Right on!

Totally agree with this...I believe this should be the primary concern as far as free agency is concerned for the team this offseason.

Here's what I would do...Post #59

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/187944-2017-team-information-needs/page4/

Originally posted by NCommand:
Aaron is saying:

LDE: Michael Bennett vs. DeForest Bucnkner; Quinton Dial
LDT (1T): Ahtyba Trubin vs. Quinton Dial; but ideally, Dontari Poe/Brandon Williams
RDT (3T): Jarran Reed vs. Arik Armstead; Glenn Dorsey
RDE (LEO): Cliff Avril vs. Aaron Lynch/Ahmad Brooks; Ronald Blair/Tank Carradine but ideally Melvin Ingram/Myles Garrett
LOLB (SAM): Michael Morgan vs. Eli Harold; Ahmad Brooks
MLB (MIKE): Bobby Wagner vs. Navarro Bowman
WLB (WILL): KJ Wright vs. Ray-Ray Armstrong; Gerald Hodges
LCB: Richard Sherman vs. Rashard Robinson
RCB: DeShawn Shead vs. Tramaine Brock
SLOT/CB: Jeremy Lane vs. Will Redmond
FS: Earl Thomas vs. Jimmie Ward
SS: Kam Chancellor vs. Jaquiski Tartt

First: To those of you who keep complaining that we don't have the guys to run a 4-3: You're wrong. The 4-3 you are thinking about is not the 4-3 that is planned on being run here. The 4-3 we will be trying to run can utilize players who are suited for either traditional scheme. Seattle runs this D. When Seattle was crushing people against the Run, they had a guy weighing 320 pounds at Defensive End.

Second, There are two Giant Black Holes on this List. These are positions that we need to fill (and we would have to fill them regardless of scheme).

DT (1T) (Think Nose Tackle): We have Nobody on the roster who can do this. - Relatively easy to solve. Run stuffing Fat Guys aren't that hard to find. Really good ones cost a lot of money. We need to either sign a FA NT (e.g. Williams/Poe, $$$) or draft one (e.g. Brantley, Qualls, etc.).
My hope: We get two NTs - There will be plenty of game circumstances when we'll wish we had two of them. We sign a Fat Guy and draft one in rounds 4 or 5 (There should be some good run stuffing Fat NTs there).

Leo (Think Charles Haley): We have Nobody on the roster who does this consistently. - We are not the only team in the NFL who is complaining about their pass rush (or rather, lack of it). This is not that easy to find. However, and very fortunately, we have a guy available in FA who does this consistently, and does it well - Melvin Ingram. Draft-wise, really good pass-rushers are usually found in the first round. If Garret slides to us, we grab him. If he doesn't, we're probably looking at drafting for this position later. The draft is deep with "Edge" players, but again, less likely to make a consistently disruptive presence. My hope: We sign Ingram and draft one - ideally Garrett, but we can also find one in rounds 2-3.

There's a third weak spot I'd like to touch on as well, and that's at LB. We did not have enough athleticism at LB last year (duh).
WLB (WILL): Ray-Ray Armstrong - He is no longer a Raider for a reason; he struggled as a 4-3 LB. Now, he is, in theory, perfectly suited to play this role, but I really worry that he's our guy. A relatively cheap option is to sign a LB to play the MIKE and move Bowman to the WILL. Brown (Buf), or Hightower (NE), would each cost ~4 mill a yr.