QB Candidates Thread: The Search for the QBoTF

This has gone from comedy to tragedy to farce. Since when does being a "top 5 prospect" automatically, or more than likely, translate into that person being a good NFL QB? Most draft experts are consistently wrong every single year regarding which QBs are actually good. If an expert gives his top 5 prospects, sure, he is bound to be reasonable correct about one of them every other year, but a good GM or football coach has to have wayyyyyyy better predictive skills than that. Fine, be angry about Shanny not taking the guys you like, but to pretend that "top 5 prospect" means a damn thing in the actual NFL is nuts.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Explain this.....you've said it enough to act like it's true but explain how only a subset of a subset can function in a WCO that rooted in concepts and philosophies that have been killing defenses for over 40 years.

A subset of a subset, would be a QB being asked to run a read option offense.

Sorry the proof is in the pudding, by him taking Beathard over all those other available QBs. Kyle said it himself that he had to see certain things from the QBs on film that would prove to him that they can hang in his system. Beathard did those things, now think about how many other QBs didn't. So assuming that he'll just grab a top prospect next draft is erroneous.

On top of that if he grabs a QB that early and that polished he'll have to start him soon which is the opposite of the Shanahan way of learning for years just to master things.

If we aren't winning by year 3, he'll be on the hot seat.

Do you really think he'll risk his career on those terms? Or will he just grab Cousins?

This is all common sense folks.

Originally posted by Midbay:
This has gone from comedy to tragedy to farce. Since when does being a "top 5 prospect" automatically, or more than likely, translate into that person being a good NFL QB? Most draft experts are consistently wrong every single year regarding which QBs are actually good. If an expert gives his top 5 prospects, sure, he is bound to be reasonable correct about one of them every other year, but a good GM or football coach has to have wayyyyyyy better predictive skills than that. Fine, be angry about Shanny not taking the guys you like, but to pretend that "top 5 prospect" means a damn thing in the actual NFL is nuts.

Or, Kyle's system only works with a subset of QBs regardless whether they are top 5 prospects or not.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by Niners816:

The only thing you've proved is that Kyle has gotten really good production from QBs drafted in the third round or later. Also he's been right about a couple of QBs he's had a hunch on (cousins and Carr).

Yes, but Carr and cousins weren't top 5 prospects. If we are picking in the top 10 next draft which we will, you think he'll draft one of those non-compatible prospects or another reach that fits his system? Or just grab Cousins?

Who did he pass on in this weak class that you wanted him to take? There wasn't one QB worthy of a top 15-20 pick. What top 5 talented QB has he passed on, that makes you so sure he would do it again for this supposed non-compatible nonsense.

Funny, I seem to recall him totally changing his offense to help intergrate the only top5 QB he's been on a team that drafted them. I think that guy won a ROY, unfortunately the league caught up with that style.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by Midbay:
This has gone from comedy to tragedy to farce. Since when does being a "top 5 prospect" automatically, or more than likely, translate into that person being a good NFL QB? Most draft experts are consistently wrong every single year regarding which QBs are actually good. If an expert gives his top 5 prospects, sure, he is bound to be reasonable correct about one of them every other year, but a good GM or football coach has to have wayyyyyyy better predictive skills than that. Fine, be angry about Shanny not taking the guys you like, but to pretend that "top 5 prospect" means a damn thing in the actual NFL is nuts.

Or, Kyle's system only works with a subset of QBs regardless whether they are top 5 prospects or not.

Agreed, and that subset consists of a substantial percentage of actually "good" quarterbacks. Thank goodness Kyle is too narrow minded to consider all those crappy QBs.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by Niners816:

The only thing you've proved is that Kyle has gotten really good production from QBs drafted in the third round or later. Also he's been right about a couple of QBs he's had a hunch on (cousins and Carr).

Yes, but Carr and cousins weren't top 5 prospects. If we are picking in the top 10 next draft which we will, you think he'll draft one of those non-compatible prospects or another reach that fits his system? Or just grab Cousins?

What are you even debating? Let me get this straight it's bad that our HC can find qbs not "labeled" top 5 prospects and make them good?

Also if the qbs in next yrs draft are as good as projected and have the abilities he's looking for (plus we don't get Kirk) why wouldn't he draft him?

Originally posted by awp8912:

Or, Kyle's system only works with a subset of QBs regardless whether they are top 5 prospects or not.

Please tell me what mystic offense works with any QB since that seems to be your gripe. I got a spoiler alert for you all the real pro offense's (WCO, air coreyll, erhardt-perkins) require a particular skill set to thrive.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Who did he pass on in this weak class that you wanted him to take? There wasn't one QB worthy of a top 15-20 pick. What top 5 talented QB has he passed on, that makes you so sure he would do it again for this supposed non-compatible nonsense.

Funny, I seem to recall him totally changing his offense to help intergrate the only top5 QB he's been on a team that drafted them. I think that guy won a ROY, unfortunately the league caught up with that style.

It's such a dumb argument...every coach has a particular qb that they want to run their system.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What are you even debating? Let me get this straight it's bad that our HC can find qbs not "labeled" top 5 prospects and make them good?

Also if the qbs in next yrs draft are as good as projected and have the abilities he's looking for (plus we don't get Kirk) why wouldn't he draft him?

You said it yourself. That bolded part trumps all. What are the odds those top prospects have those? Considering he traded up for a guy no one had on their radar, it's safe to assume the majority of college QBs don't meet his demands regardless of how good they are.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

What are you even debating? Let me get this straight it's bad that our HC can find qbs not "labeled" top 5 prospects and make them good?

Also if the qbs in next yrs draft are as good as projected and have the abilities he's looking for (plus we don't get Kirk) why wouldn't he draft him?

He didn't want Kap and didn't draft Kizer.....that's what it's all about.

Cousins is still Coach's franchise QB...Kirk won't stay in D.C. He wants to play for Shanahan and Coach wants him. So, I'm not sure what QB he could draft that would even approach a franchise player. I do think the Niners should draft a QB just about every year...and keep the best. Baalke got away from that and here we are. Coach knows what he wants in a QB and he'll keep being picky about whom he acquires either via FA or the draft. I'm totally fine with that.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by Niners816:
The only thing you've proved is that Kyle has gotten really good production from QBs drafted in the third round or later. Also he's been right about a couple of QBs he's had a hunch on (cousins and Carr).

Yes, but Carr and cousins weren't top 5 prospects. If we are picking in the top 10 next draft which we will, you think he'll draft one of those non-compatible prospects or another reach that fits his system? Or just grab Cousins?

Who did he pass on in this weak class that you wanted him to take? There wasn't one QB worthy of a top 15-20 pick. What top 5 talented QB has he passed on, that makes you so sure he would do it again for this supposed non-compatible nonsense.

Funny, I seem to recall him totally changing his offense to help intergrate the only top5 QB he's been on a team that drafted them. I think that guy won a ROY, unfortunately the league caught up with that style.

Hmm...he passed on all the guys we heard of that weren't as good as Beathard but had been on the sports updates and listed on all the prospect lists because they had a lot of yards and stuff! Who cares about individual skills that might match the WCO? We want flash...as a matter of fact, let's keep Kaepernick and have him throw bombs or run every down! Now that's fun!

Originally posted by Niners816:
Who did he pass on in this weak class that you wanted him to take? There wasn't one QB worthy of a top 15-20 pick. What top 5 talented QB has he passed on, that makes you so sure he would do it again for this supposed non-compatible nonsense.

Funny, I seem to recall him totally changing his offense to help intergrate the only top5 QB he's been on a team that drafted them. I think that guy won a ROY, unfortunately the league caught up with that style.

Except he didn't actually pick RG3 so that's irrelevant. And again even in the 3rd with all the available QBs that the experts had valued ahead of Beathard, he traded up and chose Beathard. Which proves even in the subset of QBs remaining (Kaaya, Peterman, etc) he chose the one that best fit his system and not the one that was graded as the best remaining prospect. Next draft, he will do the same, chose the guy that best fits his system and not the best QB available. This is his career on the line, he's not taking any chances. That's all I'm saying, can you really argue with those points.

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:

I am worried that Shanahan is not objective in his QB evaluations. He seems to fall in love with mediocre QB talents and MUST have them.
He seems to lose his objectivity and overvalues certain guys.
Hopefully Shanahan keeps an open mind to try to get the best QBOTF possible and doesn't insist only on Cousins

Disagree.. This wasn't a great QB class, or even a really good one. We will see what happens next year, but I don't believe Lynch and Shanahan are putting all their faith in Cousins. This team was just so bad, at so many positions...and this draft class was filled with defensive players who stand out. This is year one, way too early to start predicting trends.

All true.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Hmm...he passed on all the guys we heard of that weren't as good as Beathard but had been on the sports updates and listed on all the prospect lists because they had a lot of yards and stuff! Who cares about individual skills that might match the WCO? We want flash...as a matter of fact, let's keep Kaepernick and have him throw bombs or run every down! Now that's fun!

I gotta a funny feeling he wouldn't have passed on Luck or Winston. Those are really the last 2 pro ready QBs I can remember in the last 5 drafts.

Originally posted by Niners816:
He didn't want Kap and didn't draft Kizer.....that's what it's all about.

Oh please, I wanted Kap traded/released back in March of 16' even before Kelly worked with him. I wanted Dak, who Baalke decided to keep $5 million in his pocket instead of giving to Elway and draft Robinson instead.