49ers Week 12 2016 - Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
GREAT Post Marvin. Yeah, there is some life on this team (offense) and hope going forward. Chip has the offense working and getting better each week with no weapons. I hate to say it, but Kap has looked better and better each week at this point he is really our best option going into next season as our starting QB.

Imagine if we could sign a Alshon Jeffery and draft Mike Williams and suddenly we have some weapons with Hyde, Vance McDonald, Kerley and a good young O-Line.

Then add a veteran or two along the front and continue drafting defense.

The KEY is though, Baalke HAS TO GO! Has to! Otherwise, we don't have much hope going forward

Yeah, running game with Hyde has been at 4.5 and now, 5.0. RB's, McDonald, Kerley and 5 other WR's getting involved. CK is playing much better with the obvious next steps of cashing in on more points, ST's with Dawson/Pinion has been very good all year (still looking for better, consistent coverage from the unit minus Burbridge and a consistent returner), front 7 has played significantly better the last three games IIRC (pretty much the second Dorsey was healthy enough to start and the one-armed Armstead finally sat/surgery), I like what I see from both Robinson and Ward outside (ironically, Ward struggles most when he has to slide back inside to the slot), Tartt had a good first start, etc.

We ALL know where the obvious holes are:

• #1 is health (49 players on I.R. in 2.5 years is pathetic)
• FQB for Kaepernick (may not start until 2018)
• True ZWR for Patton
• Power RB to back up Hyde
• Physically strong LG for Beadles
• T to push Staley and Brown with the skill set to take over in a year or two
• Physically strong FA C to compete with Kilgore (remember, Kelly is ALL about the inside runs like Harbaugh, Singletary, Nolan and Raye before him )
• 100% healthy NT (Williams/Dorsey/FA/Rookie)
• Domninant WILL erdge rusher
• Top talent ILB to compete with Bowman/Ray-Ray and add REAL depth (Bellore & Wilhoite are ST players only)
• Dynamic Retruner
• Moves: Ward & Robinson exclusively outside, Redmond in the slot. Tartt and maybe Reid at S. Or, Ward & Tartt at S (ideal), Robinson outside and draft another press CB to compete with Johnson.
• Scheme: O'Neil is fired and a veteran DC is hired (Bowles, etc.); Kelly adapts to our power personnel more and morphs his system together. More 2 back sets, lead FB in short yardage and goal line situations, less 3 WR sets (80+% right now), more snaps under C, etc. Passing game is great; could be better in the RZ.
• Cornerstone players: Need one at each position to raise the units particularly at QB, WR, OL, DL, WILL & ILB (maybe CB/S) + Returner

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kerley is another keeper. Love Burbridge on ST too. Hope he can grow into depth behind Kerley.

Kerley and Burbridge could be real solid, key role players.

If we could add Mike Williams and Alshon Jeffery and have Kerley in the slot, we could have something. Or even keep Torrey and have a 3 headed monster.

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kerley is another keeper. Love Burbridge on ST too. Hope he can grow into depth behind Kerley.

Kerley and Burbridge could be real solid, key role players.

If we could add Mike Williams and Alshon Jeffery and have Kerley in the slot, we could have something. Or even keep Torrey and have a 3 headed monster.

This!

Yeah, we've added quality starters and key role players to date but no doubt, we're missing the bigger player makers, leaders and cornerstone players for many of the units.

Like you note here, imagine how electric this passing game with be with a true big-bodied ZWR Jeffrey, Benjamin, Evans, Dez, Cooper, etc. His presence alone would elevate Kerley, Torrey, McDonald, etc. and leave massive lanes for the RB's to exploit underneath in the passing game and leave gaping holes for CK to run through.

Originally posted by thl408:

Dorsey was putting the MIA center on skates the whole game. He should be a high priority FA. In fact, get a deal done now before he hits the open market. I'm not trying to draft a rookie NT and expecting him to produce. It was interesting what Dorsey was doing in this game. Most 3-4 NTs are looking to two gap but Dorsey was firing upfield a number of times and was getting penetration.

i agree dorsey is solid and we should keep him in the mix.

Ok, I am not a Kap fan, but like you Marv, have been impressed with his last 4 weeks. Question is tho, IF he is our QB, are we paying him $20 mil next yr to be a glorified bridge? Or $15 mil? Or $10 mil...how about what elway valued him at , $5-6 mil? Are we going to be paying him 4x what the rest of the league values him at? Also,what happens when DCs around the the league see Kap as our starter next yr....does anyone think they won't take out the old notes of 2013-14- 15 and look at kap's desire to run before really doing his progressions? Why would anyone expect DCs to do anything but cage him in outside and keep him from running wide...forcing a run up the middle or thereabouts...an inside run vs outside. And once that is started, does any one see Kap playing as well as he is now? I just don't see him, beating the same Defenses next yr that were the ones who beat him last half of 2014 and then in 2015. It was that outside "penning in" of Kap that took away his effectiveness. Why we haven't seen that these past 4 games , IDK. But guaranteed, we will see it next yr. For certain.

Now, Kap has pretty meager receivers and TEs to work with which makes his performance much better than it actually appears. But here is my big question. Do we want a guy who is woefully inaccurate QBing our team next yr.? And the other thing is, unless we get sloppy lucky and snag Trubisky, we very well may have our 1 (but hopefully 2...or even 3 picks next yr of QBs) not be the ones... and we end up needing Kap to bridge for us in 2018, while we once again go thru this horseshcidt b.s of selecting a FR QB.

Once there is containment of Kap outside, his usefulness falls off. That is what happened in end of 2013, last half of 2014, and then 2015. His accuracy? How the heck do you take a 29 yr old QB, in the league 6 yrs, and teach him how to become an accurate passer. He isn't. He just isn't. And what happens if chip continues to have Kap run, and the last playo of the game last week....we were damn lucky that Kap didn't get broken off at the knees. I thot for sure that was a career ender. Literally, I thot both knees were damaged irreparably. Only by the grace of God they weren't.

Only option I see is if Bellichek thinks Garopp is not going to be much more than average to below average and puts him up for bid. That also is going to cost us $15-$18 mil...maybe more....and if let loose by Bellichek, don't count on Garopp being more than a bridge QB. Damn this is a tough one. One thing for sure...and that is if we keep Kap, we put him up for bid and see what the market brings. Then we bid more. But signing him up for $20 mil for anything more than a yr? That would be madness. Total madness.

I do not have the answer, but no question chip is a decent QB coach. DEspite his rep, I do NOT think harbaw was. I think he had good QBs and they made him look good. So chip is better. But do we really want Kap to be that guy who QBs for us another 1-2, or 3 yrs? BEcause unless we get Trubisky, or get lucky with a lesser known, we may very well have Kap QBing us for 1-3 yrs. And THAT in my mind would lead to total disaster. Boy and we thot last yr was tight on QBs, and 3 good ones emerged....one taking longer than others.

so our dilemma is, do we want an inaccurate QB for the next few yrs or do we want to try someone else who reads well, goes thru progressions well, would not be anywhere near the runner Kap is, but hopefully would be a lot more accurate. Sure our receivers stink. But so many balls were overthrown, under thrown, too high , too. Low... Can chip really fix that? After watching 6 yrs of Kap, I say the answer is no. And once the DCs start with outside contain...then Kap reverts to 2014-2015. I just don't think we can stand or afford to have that happen. Without Trubisky, we are in a world of hurt. And once Kap is our starter...we are in a world of hurt, once the DCs start containing him.

Damn this is a negative post, but these are the things that need to be thot of right now. Not decided on right now, but thot on really hard. And chip? Anyone REALLY see him being here longer than next yr? Anything is possible but I sure doubt it. As for length of kap's contract, he would demand a minimum of 3 yrs, and that is something we truly cannot afford to do, or it sets us back another 3 yrs. Let him try the market, but he sure as heck isn't worth any $15 mil, let alone $20 mil.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Ok, I am not a Kap fan, but like you Marv, have been impressed with his last 4 weeks. Question is tho, IF he is our QB, are we paying him $20 mil next yr to be a glorified bridge? Or $15 mil? Or $10 mil...how about what elway valued him at , $5-6 mil? Are we going to be paying him 4x what the rest of the league values him at? Also,what happens when DCs around the the league see Kap as our starter next yr....does anyone think they won't take out the old notes of 2013-14- 15 and look at kap's desire to run before really doing his progressions? Why would anyone expect DCs to do anything but cage him in outside and keep him from running wide...forcing a run up the middle or thereabouts...an inside run vs outside. And once that is started, does any one see Kap playing as well as he is now? I just don't see him, beating the same Defenses next yr that were the ones who beat him last half of 2014 and then in 2015. It was that outside "penning in" of Kap that took away his effectiveness. Why we haven't seen that these past 4 games , IDK. But guaranteed, we will see it next yr. For certain.

Now, Kap has pretty meager receivers and TEs to work with which makes his performance much better than it actually appears. But here is my big question. Do we want a guy who is woefully inaccurate QBing our team next yr.? And the other thing is, unless we get sloppy lucky and snag Trubisky, we very well may have our 1 (but hopefully 2...or even 3 picks next yr of QBs) not be the ones... and we end up needing Kap to bridge for us in 2018, while we once again go thru this horseshcidt b.s of selecting a FR QB.

Once there is containment of Kap outside, his usefulness falls off. That is what happened in end of 2013, last half of 2014, and then 2015. His accuracy? How the heck do you take a 29 yr old QB, in the league 6 yrs, and teach him how to become an accurate passer. He isn't. He just isn't. And what happens if chip continues to have Kap run, and the last playo of the game last week....we were damn lucky that Kap didn't get broken off at the knees. I thot for sure that was a career ender. Literally, I thot both knees were damaged irreparably. Only by the grace of God they weren't.

Only option I see is if Bellichek thinks Garopp is not going to be much more than average to below average and puts him up for bid. That also is going to cost us $15-$18 mil...maybe more....and if let loose by Bellichek, don't count on Garopp being more than a bridge QB. Damn this is a tough one. One thing for sure...and that is if we keep Kap, we put him up for bid and see what the market brings. Then we bid more. But signing him up for $20 mil for anything more than a yr? That would be madness. Total madness.

I do not have the answer, but no question chip is a decent QB coach. DEspite his rep, I do NOT think harbaw was. I think he had good QBs and they made him look good. So chip is better. But do we really want Kap to be that guy who QBs for us another 1-2, or 3 yrs? BEcause unless we get Trubisky, or get lucky with a lesser known, we may very well have Kap QBing us for 1-3 yrs. And THAT in my mind would lead to total disaster. Boy and we thot last yr was tight on QBs, and 3 good ones emerged....one taking longer than others.

so our dilemma is, do we want an inaccurate QB for the next few yrs or do we want to try someone else who reads well, goes thru progressions well, would not be anywhere near the runner Kap is, but hopefully would be a lot more accurate. Sure our receivers stink. But so many balls were overthrown, under thrown, too high , too. Low... Can chip really fix that? After watching 6 yrs of Kap, I say the answer is no. And once the DCs start with outside contain...then Kap reverts to 2014-2015. I just don't think we can stand or afford to have that happen. Without Trubisky, we are in a world of hurt. And once Kap is our starter...we are in a world of hurt, once the DCs start containing him.

Damn this is a negative post, but these are the things that need to be thot of right now. Not decided on right now, but thot on really hard. And chip? Anyone REALLY see him being here longer than next yr? Anything is possible but I sure doubt it. As for length of kap's contract, he would demand a minimum of 3 yrs, and that is something we truly cannot afford to do, or it sets us back another 3 yrs. Let him try the market, but he sure as heck isn't worth any $15 mil, let alone $20 mil.

All your points are on target and you're looking at how Kap was stopped by D-coordinators. That was in different systems, the fakes to Hyde and Kap taking off had me following Hyde. Look how many different receivers were involved, and none of them close to elite. This Chicago game coming up is a great test, if there is one D-coordinator who knows how to stop Kap it's Fangio. Let's put it further under the microscope after the Bear game.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Ok, I am not a Kap fan, but like you Marv, have been impressed with his last 4 weeks. Question is tho, IF he is our QB, are we paying him $20 mil next yr to be a glorified bridge? Or $15 mil? Or $10 mil...how about what elway valued him at , $5-6 mil? Are we going to be paying him 4x what the rest of the league values him at? Also,what happens when DCs around the the league see Kap as our starter next yr....does anyone think they won't take out the old notes of 2013-14- 15 and look at kap's desire to run before really doing his progressions? Why would anyone expect DCs to do anything but cage him in outside and keep him from running wide...forcing a run up the middle or thereabouts...an inside run vs outside. And once that is started, does any one see Kap playing as well as he is now? I just don't see him, beating the same Defenses next yr that were the ones who beat him last half of 2014 and then in 2015. It was that outside "penning in" of Kap that took away his effectiveness. Why we haven't seen that these past 4 games , IDK. But guaranteed, we will see it next yr. For certain.

Now, Kap has pretty meager receivers and TEs to work with which makes his performance much better than it actually appears. But here is my big question. Do we want a guy who is woefully inaccurate QBing our team next yr.? And the other thing is, unless we get sloppy lucky and snag Trubisky, we very well may have our 1 (but hopefully 2...or even 3 picks next yr of QBs) not be the ones... and we end up needing Kap to bridge for us in 2018, while we once again go thru this horseshcidt b.s of selecting a FR QB.

Once there is containment of Kap outside, his usefulness falls off. That is what happened in end of 2013, last half of 2014, and then 2015. His accuracy? How the heck do you take a 29 yr old QB, in the league 6 yrs, and teach him how to become an accurate passer. He isn't. He just isn't. And what happens if chip continues to have Kap run, and the last playo of the game last week....we were damn lucky that Kap didn't get broken off at the knees. I thot for sure that was a career ender. Literally, I thot both knees were damaged irreparably. Only by the grace of God they weren't.

Only option I see is if Bellichek thinks Garopp is not going to be much more than average to below average and puts him up for bid. That also is going to cost us $15-$18 mil...maybe more....and if let loose by Bellichek, don't count on Garopp being more than a bridge QB. Damn this is a tough one. One thing for sure...and that is if we keep Kap, we put him up for bid and see what the market brings. Then we bid more. But signing him up for $20 mil for anything more than a yr? That would be madness. Total madness.

I do not have the answer, but no question chip is a decent QB coach. DEspite his rep, I do NOT think harbaw was. I think he had good QBs and they made him look good. So chip is better. But do we really want Kap to be that guy who QBs for us another 1-2, or 3 yrs? BEcause unless we get Trubisky, or get lucky with a lesser known, we may very well have Kap QBing us for 1-3 yrs. And THAT in my mind would lead to total disaster. Boy and we thot last yr was tight on QBs, and 3 good ones emerged....one taking longer than others.

so our dilemma is, do we want an inaccurate QB for the next few yrs or do we want to try someone else who reads well, goes thru progressions well, would not be anywhere near the runner Kap is, but hopefully would be a lot more accurate. Sure our receivers stink. But so many balls were overthrown, under thrown, too high , too. Low... Can chip really fix that? After watching 6 yrs of Kap, I say the answer is no. And once the DCs start with outside contain...then Kap reverts to 2014-2015. I just don't think we can stand or afford to have that happen. Without Trubisky, we are in a world of hurt. And once Kap is our starter...we are in a world of hurt, once the DCs start containing him.

Damn this is a negative post, but these are the things that need to be thot of right now. Not decided on right now, but thot on really hard. And chip? Anyone REALLY see him being here longer than next yr? Anything is possible but I sure doubt it. As for length of kap's contract, he would demand a minimum of 3 yrs, and that is something we truly cannot afford to do, or it sets us back another 3 yrs. Let him try the market, but he sure as heck isn't worth any $15 mil, let alone $20 mil.

There is no doubt Colin Kaepernick has his warts and hasn't done quite enough to alleviate the concern over past performance, but what are the alternatives? Garrapollo? Is he REALLY that good if New England lets him walk? Because if he really is that good teams don't let them walk, it just doesn't happen. Fitzpatrick? I don't think much more needs to be said about him. Given the lack of better alternatives and the guestimated cost of bringing in any one of them I feel like Kaepernick at his current 15million is a pretty good idea at this point. The question is whether Kaepernick will find MORE money somewhere else. I mean Brock Osweiller got paid for goodness sake!

Somebody is going to have to QB the 49ers next season so a bridge QB is necessary. If Kaepernick continues to play well and stays I'd like to see the team move to beef up the players around him, even if that means taking the Clemson WR in round 1 and coming back for a QB later. That approach worked out well in Oakland and slightly less well in Cincinnati.

Its a players option so he can leave if he wants but he might have a hard time getting the kind of money he's making now particularly with the off the field stuff thats going on. I still think they need to take a QB, but Kap has impressed me in recent weeks. Imagine if he actually had a few WRs out there.

Yes he probably won't get the money he would if he left via free agency, but what kind of security would he have as a starter if he did stay? After all it is a MUST that the 49ers draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds and how long would that rookie last on the bench before he reigns? I could understand NOT taking a QB in the 1st or 2nd round if Kaepernick was 4-2 as a starter right about now, but the 49ers are sitting on 1-10 and no clear cut QB of the future?

Sorry didn't mean to make this thread about Kap just wanted to address that issue of his contract.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Its a players option so he can leave if he wants but he might have a hard time getting the kind of money he's making now particularly with the off the field stuff thats going on. I still think they need to take a QB, but Kap has impressed me in recent weeks. Imagine if he actually had a few WRs out there.

Yes he probably won't get the money he would if he left via free agency, but what kind of security would he have as a starter if he did stay? After all it is a MUST that the 49ers draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds and how long would that rookie last on the bench before he reigns? I could understand NOT taking a QB in the 1st or 2nd round if Kaepernick was 4-2 as a starter right about now, but the 49ers are sitting on 1-10 and no clear cut QB of the future?

Sorry didn't mean to make this thread about Kap just wanted to address that issue of his contract.

No worries. :)

I see your point. I really don't know what he's thinking or what his options will be...but when he was offered the chance this offseason to slash his salary and get a shot to start for a SB Champion, he balked.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

9). OLB
I think I may be the only one here who thinks our OLB needs aren't as big as out ILB and WR needs. To be sure, given Kaep's play and development in Chip's scheme, I wouldn't be upset if we went Garrett with our 1st pick. But I really think that our ILB and WR needs are killing this team more than the OLB position is. Now, the OLB problem is a glaring exposure of Baalke's need to be fired, NOW. He should not be allowed anywhere near the 2017 draft. Chip is fielding Baalke's draft picks and they are, by and large, proving to be little better than a bunch of backups.

IMHO. . .

The two most important positions in this passing league are:

1. QB. You must have a guy who can throw the ball effectively.

2. Pass rusher. You must have a guy who can keep #1 from doing his job effectively.

After that the defense needs to be strong up the middle. NT, ILB, safety. AFTER #1 and #2.

IMHO

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
All your points are on target and you're looking at how Kap was stopped by D-coordinators. That was in different systems, the fakes to Hyde and Kap taking off had me following Hyde. Look how many different receivers were involved, and none of them close to elite. This Chicago game coming up is a great test, if there is one D-coordinator who knows how to stop Kap it's Fangio. Let's put it further under the microscope after the Bear game.

Agreed. I have NOT been impressed with Kaepernick.

He's put together a few good first halfs coupled with big fails in the second halfs, BUT, this last game, he put together a complete game and kept us competitive. That's what's most encouraging. That's what is giving us hope.

The next phase for him will be to convert those yards into more points (an area he's struggled with in his career esp. in the RZ).

But I like that he's added some touch, some arc, is getting the RB's and TE's involved, using all of the receivers, etc. He's looked a bit better in picket presence too and making the most of his scrambling. He still ad libs a ton and I'd like to see more of the plays executed as they are drawn. I can't tell if Kelly's scheme in the passing game is so good CK hasn't had to look to the second or third options yet (it doesn't seem like it); still seems like 1-and-run (but that's working too). So those are areas he can improve upon. But he's certainly getting more and more comfortable in Kelly's scheme and his low INT's are very helpful.

So for now, he needs to continue to put complete games together, utilize everyone in the passing game, lead the offense with quicker pace, start throwing with anticipation some, score more f**king points and finally, commit to being here next year while we still draft a FQB-in-training.

Originally posted by dj43:
The two most important positions in this passing league are:

1. QB. You must have a guy who can throw the ball effectively.

2. Pass rusher. You must have a guy who can keep #1 from doing his job effectively.

After that the defense needs to be strong up the middle. NT, ILB, safety. AFTER #1 and #2.

IMHO

BOOM

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

10) 5 more to go: Its kinda funny. The 49ers by record are a worse team this year than they were last year yet somehow I'm more positive about the teams direction than I was last year. Last year just seemed completely directionless with no hope whatsoever. Call me a homer but I see some direction this year. I see some pieces and I see some improvement in individual play even if the whole isn't putting it together into Ws.

This. Same here. This is what most reasonable fans said coming into the year...this year will not be measured by W's but installation of systems and progress within these new schemes. Many said, I don't care if we win or lose, just be competitive in every game and no 40-point blowouts and progress.

I think as we get closer to the end, we've found some nice additions who fit, some former players who made the transition, some individual growth and some players who clearly don't fit and/or didn't take that next step and they won't be back next year.

I have about 35-40 keepers (including ST and role players). We still have a long ways to go but it's nice to see this team not quitting and playing hard.

I expect to see the defense rankings improve slightly, the offense rankings improve greatly and a solid improvement in point differential.
We shall see if that happens.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Its a players option so he can leave if he wants but he might have a hard time getting the kind of money he's making now particularly with the off the field stuff thats going on. I still think they need to take a QB, but Kap has impressed me in recent weeks. Imagine if he actually had a few WRs out there.

Yes he probably won't get the money he would if he left via free agency, but what kind of security would he have as a starter if he did stay? After all it is a MUST that the 49ers draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds and how long would that rookie last on the bench before he reigns? I could understand NOT taking a QB in the 1st or 2nd round if Kaepernick was 4-2 as a starter right about now, but the 49ers are sitting on 1-10 and no clear cut QB of the future?

Sorry didn't mean to make this thread about Kap just wanted to address that issue of his contract.

No worries. :)

I see your point. I really don't know what he's thinking or what his options will be...but when he was offered the chance this offseason to slash his salary and get a shot to start for a SB Champion, he balked.

True, but slashing it all the way down to $7 million is a huge cut. If or when he hits the market, I think he gets $12 million at the minimum. It's also good on his part that he is somewhat playing well, he could void his contract and let teams get into a bidding war over him, which is what I would do. IMO staying with the 49ers at his current contract wouldn't be a smart move on his part, it serves no security on his behalf and would basically be playing on a one-year contract every year. Kap is getting up there in age, now is the time to win himself a contract that would keep him secure for at least the next 4 to 5 years, football life gets real hard nearing your 40's.

Originally posted by bzborow1:
There is no doubt Colin Kaepernick has his warts and hasn't done quite enough to alleviate the concern over past performance, but what are the alternatives? Garrapollo? Is he REALLY that good if New England lets him walk? Because if he really is that good teams don't let them walk, it just doesn't happen. Fitzpatrick? I don't think much more needs to be said about him. Given the lack of better alternatives and the guestimated cost of bringing in any one of them I feel like Kaepernick at his current 15million is a pretty good idea at this point. The question is whether Kaepernick will find MORE money somewhere else. I mean Brock Osweiller got paid for goodness sake!

Somebody is going to have to QB the 49ers next season so a bridge QB is necessary. If Kaepernick continues to play well and stays I'd like to see the team move to beef up the players around him, even if that means taking the Clemson WR in round 1 and coming back for a QB later. That approach worked out well in Oakland and slightly less well in Cincinnati.

I think some have mentioned Romo or Bradford as possible options.

Also, Mike Lombardi was musing that Thad Lewis might've been the guy Chip wanted to run with this year.