Defense vs Offense

Everybody keeps talking about our offense and in a way I feel like they are neglecting our talent on defense. We have everybody back on defense from a year ago and we have added a lot of young players in key parts of this defense (Buckner, Robinson, Redmond, Blair). In my opinion I believe the defense will be one of the better defenses in the nation and will surprise alot of people this year. We are healthy, younger, and we are faster at cb and our dline is very stout and not anything to sleep on. Anyway I believe the defense out performs the offense this year and will be the reason why we win games this year. What do you all think? Offense or Defense?

Oh I don't think there can be any doubt. Right now we have the genesis of a great D coming together.

I was under the impression that most people think the offense is the work in progress out of the two.

History with Chip says the offense will far out perform the defense. Plus we are young and learning a new system. If we can close the gap (something like ranked 8-12 on offense and 16-18 on defense), we will be in the playoffs. Chip's teams are always in the better half on offense but at the bottom on defense. Balance those out a little more and we are golden

Well, to Buckner, Robinson, Redmond, Blair, add Bow, Hodges, AA, and then Dorsey/Purcell, Ward, Tartt/DJ/ Bethea, Dang, Ian was a really tough loss.

On the OL of Staley/Garnett/kIlgore/AD(Tiller/Zane)/Trenton, then add Hyde, Shaun/JuJuan/Celek/McD/Bell/ Torrey...and all of a sudden I see a whole lot more there than a framework. I see a team that is completely , or mostly untried, but basically most of what we haven't had for the last two yr. Talent at virtually every slot but ILB, and we could get some surprise there.

Missing link, STBD, QB. And there, it just has to play out. If someone would have told me last yr we would be competitive this yr with this kind of talent, I would have said no way.
Oddly, the strength of the draft was right up the middle on both O and D, and we took full advantage of it.

Last but not least, let's not forget the massive improvement at OC/HC. So I see huge improvement all the way around on both sides of the ball and there are a lot of teams that are going to be surprised at just how much talent we acquired virtually everywhere but QB and ILB. We won't know for two yrs but this will end up being a draft for the ages. The real questions will be at DB, but if those boys are good, esp with a good HC, this is going to be one heckuva yr. And don't forget, with a crackerjack OC/HC, even with moderate QB play we could win 4 more than the 6 Ws I have us down for this yr.

I don't think we are twice as talented as last yr, I think we are 3 times better. Our big problem...is getting these guys to learn how to play together, OGs w/ C, OTs, wth OGs,
CBs with Safeties and LBs, and DL wth LBs. When you look at all the really fine new talent, that is going to be the task at hand....familiarity of one position with the other.

And that doesn't even touch the weakest spot....Qb(whichever) with WRs, TEs....learning how each guy runs patterns, makes his breaks and where, and so on. Made even harder by the fact we really don't have a starting QB....yet...This team is blessed with a truly all football all the time coach, and he may be able to take a middling QB and make him good enough to make us compete equally with the best out there...SEA, AZ, Pats, and so on. That is why everyone is anticipating the PS so much. NO ONE knows what exactly we do have yet, and how long it takes for all parts to work together like a machine is the real issue. Except at ILB and QB, the talent is there. And even at those two slots, we may have way better than most of us believe. WR, our bugaboo for what seems like forever, I think with Chip we find 2 more very good WRs.

The hard part, the unbelievable part, was the acquisition of talent. The rest is integration of parts, and my guess is that takes an entire season. As for QBs, I just have no idea.
There, Chip, not just the QBs, is the key.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
History with Chip says the offense will far out perform the defense. Plus we are young and learning a new system. If we can close the gap (something like ranked 8-12 on offense and 16-18 on defense), we will be in the playoffs. Chip's teams are always in the better half on offense but at the bottom on defense. Balance those out a little more and we are golden

Yeah history hasn't been good as far as defense goes with chip...but for me it's all about that turnover ratio.

2013 Philly was +12 good for 5th in the league.... 2014 that defense was 6th in total defensive turnovers and 9th in 2015....BUT that offense turned the ball over wayyyy too much. Bad QB play

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
History with Chip says the offense will far out perform the defense. Plus we are young and learning a new system. If we can close the gap (something like ranked 8-12 on offense and 16-18 on defense), we will be in the playoffs. Chip's teams are always in the better half on offense but at the bottom on defense. Balance those out a little more and we are golden

Yeah history hasn't been good as far as defense goes with chip...but for me it's all about that turnover ratio.

2013 Philly was +12 good for 5th in the league.... 2014 that defense was 6th in total defensive turnovers and 9th in 2015....BUT that offense turned the ball over wayyyy too much. Bad QB play

Agreed with that. If we can become opportunistic as opposed to just dominant like our previous years, that combined with Chip's normal offensive output should be more than enough. I don't expect to be top 10 in PPG allowed or total plays on the defensive end but if we can get slightly below 20 while creating turnovers, we will be tough to beat, IMO.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
History with Chip says the offense will far out perform the defense. Plus we are young and learning a new system. If we can close the gap (something like ranked 8-12 on offense and 16-18 on defense), we will be in the playoffs. Chip's teams are always in the better half on offense but at the bottom on defense. Balance those out a little more and we are golden

Yeah history hasn't been good as far as defense goes with chip...but for me it's all about that turnover ratio.

2013 Philly was +12 good for 5th in the league.... 2014 that defense was 6th in total defensive turnovers and 9th in 2015....BUT that offense turned the ball over wayyyy too much. Bad QB play

Agreed with that. If we can become opportunistic as opposed to just dominant like our previous years, that combined with Chip's normal offensive output should be more than enough. I don't expect to be top 10 in PPG allowed or total plays on the defensive end but if we can get slightly below 20 while creating turnovers, we will be tough to beat, IMO.

yup

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well, to Buckner, Robinson, Redmond, Blair, add Bow, Hodges, AA, and then Dorsey/Purcell, Ward, Tartt/DJ/ Bethea, Dang, Ian was a really tough loss.

On the OL of Staley/Garnett/kIlgore/AD(Tiller/Zane)/Trenton, then add Hyde, Shaun/JuJuan/Celek/McD/Bell/ Torrey...and all of a sudden I see a whole lot more there than a framework. I see a team that is completely , or mostly untried, but basically most of what we haven't had for the last two yr. Talent at virtually every slot but ILB, and we could get some surprise there.

Missing link, STBD, QB. And there, it just has to play out. If someone would have told me last yr we would be competitive this yr with this kind of talent, I would have said no way.
Oddly, the strength of the draft was right up the middle on both O and D, and we took full advantage of it.

Last but not least, let's not forget the massive improvement at OC/HC. So I see huge improvement all the way around on both sides of the ball and there are a lot of teams that are going to be surprised at just how much talent we acquired virtually everywhere but QB and ILB. We won't know for two yrs but this will end up being a draft for the ages. The real questions will be at DB, but if those boys are good, esp with a good HC, this is going to be one heckuva yr. And don't forget, with a crackerjack OC/HC, even with moderate QB play we could win 4 more than the 6 Ws I have us down for this yr.

I don't think we are twice as talented as last yr, I think we are 3 times better. Our big problem...is getting these guys to learn how to play together, OGs w/ C, OTs, wth OGs,
CBs with Safeties and LBs, and DL wth LBs. When you look at all the really fine new talent, that is going to be the task at hand....familiarity of one position with the other.

And that doesn't even touch the weakest spot....Qb(whichever) with WRs, TEs....learning how each guy runs patterns, makes his breaks and where, and so on. Made even harder by the fact we really don't have a starting QB....yet...This team is blessed with a truly all football all the time coach, and he may be able to take a middling QB and make him good enough to make us compete equally with the best out there...SEA, AZ, Pats, and so on. That is why everyone is anticipating the PS so much. NO ONE knows what exactly we do have yet, and how long it takes for all parts to work together like a machine is the real issue. Except at ILB and QB, the talent is there. And even at those two slots, we may have way better than most of us believe. WR, our bugaboo for what seems like forever, I think with Chip we find 2 more very good WRs.

The hard part, the unbelievable part, was the acquisition of talent. The rest is integration of parts, and my guess is that takes an entire season. As for QBs, I just have no idea.
There, Chip, not just the QBs, is the key.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

History with Chip says the offense will far out perform the defense. Plus we are young and learning a new system. If we can close the gap (something like ranked 8-12 on offense and 16-18 on defense), we will be in the playoffs. Chip's teams are always in the better half on offense but at the bottom on defense. Balance those out a little more and we are golden

Yeah history hasn't been good as far as defense goes with chip...but for me it's all about that turnover ratio.

2013 Philly was +12 good for 5th in the league.... 2014 that defense was 6th in total defensive turnovers and 9th in 2015....BUT that offense turned the ball over wayyyy too much. Bad QB play

Agreed with that. If we can become opportunistic as opposed to just dominant like our previous years, that combined with Chip's normal offensive output should be more than enough. I don't expect to be top 10 in PPG allowed or total plays on the defensive end but if we can get slightly below 20 while creating turnovers, we will be tough to beat, IMO.

Are you thinking several years into the future? We'll be easy to beat next year if we aren't top 10 in PPG allowed, because we'll be bottom 10 in PPG scored. Our offense completely lacks talent. Davis may help our offensive line return to league average, but we're still below average at every other position once Hyde gets hurt. Kelly can turn around our offense, but he'll need players to do it.

Originally posted by illinois9er:
I was under the impression that most people think the offense is the work in progress out of the two.

This

I can't help but think to what our defense could look like right now if Aldon Smith didn't go full retard and waste his talents and if Chris Borland wasn't a b***h who quit on the team.

Imagine a defense with Armstead/Dial/Buckner towering up front and behind them you have Aldon Smith & Aaron Lynch rushing with Bowman and Borland in the middle.

That's a scary front 7 :(

Our LBs might be our achilles heel. Lynch, and Bowman are great but everyone else is unproven and haven't shown much when given the opportunity. If either Bowman or Lynch got hurt our defense would be ugly

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Are you thinking several years into the future? We'll be easy to beat next year if we aren't top 10 in PPG allowed, because we'll be bottom 10 in PPG scored. Our offense completely lacks talent. Davis may help our offensive line return to league average, but we're still below average at every other position once Hyde gets hurt. Kelly can turn around our offense, but he'll need players to do it.

It can be said both Gabbert and Kap are better fits for Kelly's offense than anything he has had at this point in the NFL. So while we may be below average across the league, Chip has always had below average QBs run his system yet still produced career years and a top 15 offense. Hyde will be running behind a far more talented Oline this year than what he experienced last year and a much better offensive coach (better coaches across the board in general). Smith is a legit WR and Ellington has the explosion to be a huge threat in this system. He (and even Patton to an extent) have shown they can make plays when given the opportunity, that opportunity was just few a few between with the previous regime. I also think either McDonald or Bell can have great success in Kelly's system. McDonald showed he can play last year once he actually started getting opportunities (after week 8). We may not have a Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin or a Shady McCoy but neither did Philly last year yet they were still top 15 in offense.

On the defensive side, like NYNiner pointed out, Chip's defenses have ranked at the bottom of the league in PPG but have created a lot of turnovers. If we can get to around 16-18 in PPG allowed, we will be a tough out because our offense will score points, that is a guarantee.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

It can be said both Gabbert and Kap are better fits for Kelly's offense than anything he has had at this point in the NFL. So while we may be below average across the league, Chip has always had below average QBs run his system yet still produced career years and a top 15 offense. Hyde will be running behind a far more talented Oline this year than what he experienced last year and a much better offensive coach (better coaches across the board in general). Smith is a legit WR and Ellington has the explosion to be a huge threat in this system. He (and even Patton to an extent) have shown they can make plays when given the opportunity, that opportunity was just few a few between with the previous regime. I also think either McDonald or Bell can have great success in Kelly's system. McDonald showed he can play last year once he actually started getting opportunities (after week 8). We may not have a Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin or a Shady McCoy but neither did Philly last year yet they were still top 15 in offense.

On the defensive side, like NYNiner pointed out, Chip's defenses have ranked at the bottom of the league in PPG but have created a lot of turnovers. If we can get to around 16-18 in PPG allowed, we will be a tough out because our offense will score points, that is a guarantee.