2016 Camp Battles!

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
What you all say is all true, but just looking at your posts, can you really believe we are having this conversation as opposed to last yr when the conversation...?

It's pretty remarkable actually. That was my silver lining to last year...the ONLY silver lining...that most of the young kids got some real NFL snaps and as a result, knew how to prepare better for this year. Dial played well and got himself a new contract. Tiller played great the final 8 games at both RG and LG on the fly and Brown got his due late and clearly has built off that success. Even Purcell got quite a few snaps as well last year (thankfully). All 4 of those guys have a legit shot at not only being starters or rotational players that get a ton of snaps or are "starter worthy." Then, consider where Baalke found them...Dial in the 5th, Purcell and Tiller as UDFA's and Brown in the 7th round as an extra pick for the Pinion trade-back. Dial and Purcell will probably be base-down starters and rotate along the DL and Garnett & Davis are going to have a heck of time beating Tiller & Brown. That's what you want. The OL and DL isn't 100% secure yet but it certainly has made great progress compared to last year. And that's what you want during a rebuild...arrow up.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Until Lynch gets back, we just have to hang our hats in hope that an aging Brooks, Eli Harold and Tank can get it done on the pass rush. One thing we have in our corners is O'Neil comes from that Rex Ryan and Mike Pettine defensive school, so theoretically the man should know how to creatively blitz as good as anybody, which can make up for a lackluster natural pass rush. There are few in the game that know more exotic blitzes than Rex does. Hopefully O'Neil can apply some of that should he need too.

Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

Good point, Willis. I am going to just guess here, but looking at Harold...the guy just looks like a football player this yr, meaning he really worked hard in the offseason. I expect him to surprise us....and we are going to need some surprises at LB.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Good point, Willis. I am going to just guess here, but looking at Harold...the guy just looks like a football player this yr, meaning he really worked hard in the offseason. I expect him to surprise us....and we are going to need some surprises at LB.

Said the same thing in the surprise players thread.

Originally posted by NCommand:

It's pretty remarkable actually. That was my silver lining to last year...the ONLY silver lining...that most of the young kids got some real NFL snaps and as a result, knew how to prepare better for this year. Dial played well and got himself a new contract. Tiller played great the final 8 games at both RG and LG on the fly and Brown got his due late and clearly has built off that success. Even Purcell got quite a few snaps as well last year (thankfully). All 4 of those guys have a legit shot at not only being starters or rotational players that get a ton of snaps or are "starter worthy." Then, consider where Baalke found them...Dial in the 5th, Purcell and Tiller as UDFA's and Brown in the 7th round as an extra pick for the Pinion trade-back. Dial and Purcell will probably be base-down starters and rotate along the DL and Garnett & Davis are going to have a heck of time beating Tiller & Brown. That's what you want. The OL and DL isn't 100% secure yet but it certainly has made great progress compared to last year. And that's what you want during a rebuild...arrow up.

This is the thing that I forget every yr. I see a bona fide starter out there, I assume he was a high pick. But the guys you mention:

Brown. 7th Rd in an add on in the Piñon deal.
Dial. 5th Rd
Purcell UDFA
Tiller. UDFA

By rights that shouldn't happen. Four guys out of thin air? The baalke complainers need to chew on those four for awhile. The other thing is, it isn't that Brown and Tiller will start, it is HOW GOOD they will be. And as for Purcell...hell, he looked like a really high drat pick at end of last yr. Dial, without Ian, may very well be in rotation.

So it isn't how great it is we had a couple late hits...it is that these guys all can play, and if 3 of them don't end up as all pros in a few yrs, I would be surprised. Some GMs really made big mistakes on Brown, Tiller, and Purcell. Way to go Baalke. But that isn't what you hear when baalke is in the conversation.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

Agreed. I think they will get their opportunities to push upfield rather than just trying to hold the point of attack for the linebackers to make the plays. The one thing that stands out to me about O'Neil from Cleveland is that he will change his dline's techniques and responsibilities week to week depending on how the offense is blocking them. I saw them one gap one week then switch to two gap the following. I'm anxious to see what he has in store for these future potential pro bowlers in Armstead and Buckner. Both simply have physical imposing will and athletic gifts that men that size should never have combined.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

Agreed. I think they will get their opportunities to push upfield rather than just trying to hold the point of attack for the linebackers to make the plays. The one thing that stands out to me about O'Neil from Cleveland is that he will change his dline's techniques and responsibilities week to week depending on how the offense is blocking them. I saw them one gap one week then switch to two gap the following. I'm anxious to see what he has in store for these future potential pro bowlers in Armstead and Buckner. Both simply have physical imposing will and athletic gifts that men that size should never have combined.

I can't wait to see our OL just crush guys...and it may take awhile...but it is coming. But even more than that is to see both DeFo and AA on the first defensive snap. I have no idea what will happen, probably a HB dive play, but seeing those two guys tee off is going to be the best part of game 1...and should continue all season. It is like "don't get a beer now, wait until the D is off the field". That's what I am looking forward to.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

Agreed. I think they will get their opportunities to push upfield rather than just trying to hold the point of attack for the linebackers to make the plays. The one thing that stands out to me about O'Neil from Cleveland is that he will change his dline's techniques and responsibilities week to week depending on how the offense is blocking them. I saw them one gap one week then switch to two gap the following. I'm anxious to see what he has in store for these future potential pro bowlers in Armstead and Buckner. Both simply have physical imposing will and athletic gifts that men that size should never have combined.

Agree. Can't wait to see these two unleashed during the season on opposing offenses

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Until Lynch gets back, we just have to hang our hats in hope that an aging Brooks, Eli Harold and Tank can get it done on the pass rush. One thing we have in our corners is O'Neil comes from that Rex Ryan and Mike Pettine defensive school, so theoretically the man should know how to creatively blitz as good as anybody, which can make up for a lackluster natural pass rush. There are few in the game that know more exotic blitzes than Rex does. Hopefully O'Neil can apply some of that should he need too.

Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

I am curious about Tank. With the shedding of the weight he was asked to add last year I wonder if he will finally show that pass rush like he did in college.

Originally posted by eastie:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Until Lynch gets back, we just have to hang our hats in hope that an aging Brooks, Eli Harold and Tank can get it done on the pass rush. One thing we have in our corners is O'Neil comes from that Rex Ryan and Mike Pettine defensive school, so theoretically the man should know how to creatively blitz as good as anybody, which can make up for a lackluster natural pass rush. There are few in the game that know more exotic blitzes than Rex does. Hopefully O'Neil can apply some of that should he need too.

Keep in mind too that AA was criticized in here b/c at Oregon, he was tasked with occupying two and not necessarily rushing up field (think McDonald in our defense). Under O'Neil, I will be expecting both Armstead and Buckner to push up field more while keeping an eye in the backfield...in snort, he'll be adding more of a pass rush (a little riskier) but you're hope is that players like Bowman, Hodges, Tartt (hybrid) and Bethea will clean things up. Plus Blair. So we'll see if it works.

I am curious about Tank. With the shedding of the weight he was asked to add last year I wonder if he will finally show that pass rush like he did in college.

Watching him in drills, he does look like a completely different player!

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
But that isn't what you hear when baalke is in the conversation.

Or that outside of one pick, he's hit on every first round pick too no matter where's he's had to draft (from 7th to 31st).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Let the battles begin...

Offensive Personnel: (2015 Snap Count)
QB: Blaine Gabbert (509); Colin Kaepernick (502), Jeff Driskel (0), Thad Lewis (0) & Dylan Thompson (0)
Battle Royale: The fat lady hasn't sung yet but she's certainly warming up her vocal cords. Driskel has also continued to impress early in his career.

RB1: Carlos Hyde (292); Mike Davis (126) & Kendall Gaskins (91)
RB2: Shaun Draughn (253); DuJuan Harris (61) & Kelvin Taylor (0)
Battle Royale: Hyde's finally getting some press and making plays. We even heard some nice reports on Davis too. It's still a pretty even battle with Draughn, Harris, Davis and Taylor. The pre season games will determine this battle.

MTE: Bruce Miller (143); Busta Anderson (0)
TE: Vance McDonald (468) & Garrett Celek (399); Blake Bell (352) & Jamie Childers (0)
Battle Royale: If Bruce adds to the trio of McDonald, Celek and Bell, it's going to have to be as a ST ace as well.

X WR: Torrey Smith (772); Jerome Simpson (85) & Bryce Treggs (0)
Y WR (SLOT): Bruce Ellington (143); Aaron Burbridge (0), DeAndrew White (30) & DiAndre Campbell (0)
Z WR: Eric Rogers (0); Quinton Patton (424), DeAndre Smelter (0), Dres Anderson (0) & Devon Cajuste (0)
Battle Royale: Torrey catches everything...deep. Ellington has been the MVP so far and there seems to be a 3-way competition between Patton, Simpson and Campbell/White/Anderson for the final spot. Right now it seems like Smelter is out due to nagging injuries. In the lead, in order = Smith, Ellington, Simpson, Patton, Burbridge, Treggs (ST), Campbell, White (ST) and Anderson. Pre season games will determine the final 5th and 6th spot.

LOT: Joe Staley (1,011); Fahn Cooper (0)
LG: Zane Beadles (1,058); Andrew Tiller (614) & Blake Muir
C: Daniel Kilgore (267); Ian Silberman (0) & Alex Balducci (0)
RG: Joshua Garnett (0); Brandon Thomas (0) & Marcus Martin (819)
ROT: Anthony Davis (0); Erik Pears (1,011), Trenton Brown (186); John Theus (0) & Colin Kelly (0)
Battle Royale: Trenton Brown and Andrew Tiller continued to hold into the 1's and Garnett is working on the left side now. Davis is climbing and Beadles may be declining along with Martin and Thomas. Pre season games will determine this battle for best combination starters and depth.

Defensive Personnel:
RDE: DeForest Bucker (0); Ronald Blair (0) & Tony Jerod Eddie (290)
NT: Quinton Dial (640); Mike Purcell (288), Darren Lake (0) & Garrison Smith (0) (Ian Williams - 659)
LDE: Arik Armstead (375); Kaleb Ramsey (0) & Demetrius Cherry (0) (Glenn Dorsey - 45)
Battle Royale: The 7 here are a lock.

WILL: Eli Harold (337); Tank Carradine (223), Marcus Rush (0) & Kevin Anderson (0)
SAM: Ahmad Brooks (741); Corey Lemonier (271), Jason Fanaika & Lenny Jones (0) (Aaron Lynch - 793)
Battle Royale: Harold and Tank continued to make plays. It'll be fun to see how they do in these pre season games. Brooks keeps making plays as well and seems steady and in good shape. But who's going to be that 4th rusher while Lynch is out? We've heard next to nothing from the rest.

TED: Gerald Hodges (366); Michael Wilhoite (616)
MIKE: Navarro Bowman (1,098); Shayne Skov (8) & Nick Bellore (7)
Hybrid SS/IB: Jaquiski Tartt (719); Ray-Ray Armstrong (0)
Battle Royale: The fat lady is warming up her pipes for Hodges here. We got plenty of insight into many of the 3 safety packages we'll be using in nickel and dime with Tartt so Hodges will be your base running down defensive fullback for Bowman and sub out in passing downs.

RCB: Jimmie Ward (730); Dontae Johnson (366) & Rashard Robinson (0)
SLOT (S/CB): Keith Reaser (79); Will Redmond (0), Prince Charles Iworah (0) & Kyle Sebetic (0)
LCB: Tramaine Brock (1,064); Kenneth Acker (807) & Chris Davis (17)
FS: Eric Reid (1,113); L.J. McCray (0), Marcus Cromartie (122) & Jered Bell (0)
SS: Antoine Bethea (440); Jaquiski Tartt (719)
Battle Royale: McCray will make it as a ST star. Reaser probably will too. Tartt is the hybrid nickel and dime DB. But outside and in the slot, the way Ward and Brock got beat yesterday against the Texans speaks to their height issues; is O'Neil finally going to look at Johnson & Robinson because of their press abilities and length? Every single other CB has impressed in Davis, Reaser, Redmond and even Prince. The outside, slot and nickel and dime positions are all up in the air IMHO and the pre season games will determine the starters and depth.

Special Teams:
LS: Kyle Nelson (140)
PK: Phil Dawson (55); John Lunsford (0)
P: Bradley Pinion (197)
Gunners: Kenneth Acker & L.J. McCray; Kenneth Acker, Keith Reaser & Jaquiski Tartt
Battle Royale: McCray is starting to make plays again. Tartt/Reaser and McCray as gunners would be deadly! Pinion is booming and Dawson hasn't been challenged. Locks.

PR/KOR: Bruce Ellington, Bryce Treggs & DiAndre White
Battle Royale: Sounds like the two leading candidates are Ellington and Treggs but White had a nice return yesterday. The Treggs and White battle is one to watch to make the 53 as a WR and returner as the coaches try and have Ellington focus solely on the slot.

^^^ Let's check in on this week's camp battles.

BUMP to the homies that'll put that work in to update this as we continue through pre season.