Skill vs character

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

Originally posted by crabman82:
But he kept Riley the racist?

I'm not saying Riley isn't a racist, but do you know if he truly is a racist or just an A-hole who said something incredibly stupid.

Truth is, jerks come in all shapes and sizes across a very wide spectrum that can't easily be summed up.

I used to be in the tolerant group. Aldon was just phenomenal. Af first wthi guns at a party, ok, a young man's stupidity. Then we went to the next incident, and then the next. There were enforced absences after each and each was upsetting to his teammates who then had to play without him. One time ok. But thereafter the pattern was set. Aldon was an immature kid, who was destined to get into trouble. Not that any one thing was just terrible. It as just that we had a loose cannon on deck and it threatened the well being of the entire ship. You can effectively cross out the 2 yrs he was in trouble as times when we weren't going anywhere. Worst part was folks who just knew he would turn over a new leaf.. In the end, it just wasn't worth it, it never will be worth it. Yes each case is singular and should be handled accordingly. But after the first episode, if bad behavior or stupid behaviour continues, we just can't roll with it. That to me means we get a lot more choosy about who we draft or FA. BAd apples mean team dissension and also that it craters our team. You can't be a bad boy all week and then an angel on Sunday. It carries over, it causes team dissension, and it affects team play. So, altho i used to say, ok, he's just immature, the red flags go up now and in a league where teams are so close in talent, that kind of situation puts your team at a disadvantage. It lessens our chances.

So from now on, i would hope that we look at bad boys as just that, and if we take a flyer on one, he better have one helluva short leash. Yes that is prudish, but we can't have another 3 or 4 yrs like we just had. We can't count on bad boys, and we never should have. So make allowances for some young guys mistake. But if it even remotely looks like a pattern developing, cut the cord.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

We don't know about Riley Cooper's apology to the team. Maybe he stood up like a man and gave a serious and heart-felt apology. Even though I have no sympathy or patience for racists, we don't really know Riley Cooper. All we know is some ridiculous thing he spouted off while drunk at a red-neck country music concert.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

We don't know about Riley Cooper's apology to the team. Maybe he stood up like a man and gave a serious and heart-felt apology. Even though I have no sympathy or patience for racists, we don't really know Riley Cooper. All we know is some ridiculous thing he spouted off while drunk at a red-neck country music concert.

What Riley Cooper said wasn't an one off. He said it like he says it all the time. Alcohol just brought out WHO he is. If it isn't in you it won't come out of you.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think most NFL guys seemed to be both. Your core guys in the locker room must have both talent and good character. Then if there's a character issue guy that has talent, then the core guys can deal with it, overcome it, and still be a very good team locker. Even a good character guy may make a mistake on occasion outside of football.

But what you can't have is someone with chronic bad character problem. Also, common sense should stop you from having wife/GF beaters and murdering convicts on the team no matter how talented.

This is a good take. Agreed.

I think the main questions is, is the players conduct a detriment to the team (Either by distraction or NFL policy)?

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

We don't know about Riley Cooper's apology to the team. Maybe he stood up like a man and gave a serious and heart-felt apology. Even though I have no sympathy or patience for racists, we don't really know Riley Cooper. All we know is some ridiculous thing he spouted off while drunk at a red-neck country music concert.

What Riley Cooper said wasn't an one off. He said it like he says it all the time. Alcohol just brought out WHO he is. If it isn't in you it won't come out of you.

That's a good point and I don't want to be defending the dude anyway.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

We don't know about Riley Cooper's apology to the team. Maybe he stood up like a man and gave a serious and heart-felt apology. Even though I have no sympathy or patience for racists, we don't really know Riley Cooper. All we know is some ridiculous thing he spouted off while drunk at a red-neck country music concert.

What Riley Cooper said wasn't an one off. He said it like he says it all the time. Alcohol just brought out WHO he is. If it isn't in you it won't come out of you.

That's a good point and I don't want to be defending the dude anyway.

That depends. Sometimes alcohol exaggerates how someone feels at the time.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

So do this mean Riley Cooper is a high character guy?

We don't know about Riley Cooper's apology to the team. Maybe he stood up like a man and gave a serious and heart-felt apology. Even though I have no sympathy or patience for racists, we don't really know Riley Cooper. All we know is some ridiculous thing he spouted off while drunk at a red-neck country music concert.

What Riley Cooper said wasn't an one off. He said it like he says it all the time. Alcohol just brought out WHO he is. If it isn't in you it won't come out of you.

That's a good point and I don't want to be defending the dude anyway.

That depends. Sometimes alcohol exaggerates how someone feels at the time.

Meh. It's highly doubtful that was Riley's first time dropping the n-bomb. Granted, I don't really think it matters if he is a raging racist as I'm sure there's plenty of them in the league.

Riley's problem was he got caught.

Originally posted by baltien:
Meh. It's highly doubtful that was Riley's first time dropping the n-bomb. Granted, I don't really think it matters if he is a raging racist as I'm sure there's plenty of them in the league.

Riley's problem was he got caught.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing there are a lot of them in the league. Every one of them has been around African American players for their entire playing careers. The more you're around people who don't share your background, the more familiar they become to you and the more you see their humanity - that's been my experience at least.

Originally posted by TexasDuck:
Ideally you want both, but since we are all grown ups here, or most of us anyway, we know that's not reality.

Chip values character over skill

1. Waived Jackson (gang association)
2. Traded McCoy (just assaulted 2 police officers)

So my question is, to you 49er fans, how does the organization look at these things, and how do you? Would the owner or Baalke bat an eye in signing someone like Greg Hardy, if they thought he could help the team? Would you care?

Given that choice, I'd take character over skill. But realistically, I just want the players to be focused. It's a gray area (Aaron Hernandez was very focused on football matters, but with some extra checks, you can whittle down the bad parts.

I get the impression that Chip's system adds those checks with the hydration checks, sleep surveys, and intense practices. It's not necessarily imposing, but it forces players to be ready each day, possibly cutting into any riskier extracurricular activities.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by baltien:

Meh. It's highly doubtful that was Riley's first time dropping the n-bomb. Granted, I don't really think it matters if he is a raging racist as I'm sure there's plenty of them in the league.

Riley's problem was he got caught.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing there are a lot of them in the league. Every one of them has been around African American players for their entire playing careers. The more you're around people who don't share your background, the more familiar they become to you and the more you see their humanity - that's been my experience at least.

Aww, aren't you sweet?

Originally posted by baltien:
Aww, aren't you sweet?

Seriously, though. It's nothing more than the luck of growing up around people of color. I grew up in San Francisco. The football and baseball teams I was on in high school all had African American and Latino players and many of them were good buddies. And there were always Asian friends. I think it makes a difference for almost anyone.

We don't know this, we don't know that. I do know at some point perception becomes reality. Riley will always be known as a racist.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by baltien:
Aww, aren't you sweet?

Seriously, though. It's nothing more than the luck of growing up around people of color. I grew up in San Francisco. The football and baseball teams I was on in high school all had African American and Latino players and many of them were good buddies. And there were always Asian friends. I think it makes a difference for almost anyone.

I'd have to agree with this. With that said, I see racism or prejudice on a sliding scale. Its not that black and white (no pun intended) to me. Growing up in a blue collar bay area town, I heard the N word a lot along with other slurs. I'm one of those bi-racial dudes that doesn't look very black, so kids would often say stuff around me having no idea they were being offensive unless I said something. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't. However, some of these same people also hung out with or were at least friendly with the black kids. I certainly wouldn't put them in the KKK category of racist. I might not even really consider them racist in the classical sense. Like any belief or faith, there are degrees of conviction. My guess is most "racists" that grew up in the bay area are surface level racists at most (occasional slur and a few ignorant stereotypes, but are not very committed to the cause). I'm not saying its a good thing or completely harmless, but it shouldn't inspire pictures of burning crosses and white cloaks.

Both

I don't want any player on a 53 man roster who doesn't have skills.

But I certainly don't want a woman beater like Hardy or any criminals.