It is obvious that the Niners must get better play from their Oline. It seems that one problem has been that after the Staley, Davis, Iupati, the Niners have tried to augment those high picks with late round "bargain bin" picks.
I've noticed several fans suggesting that the current players on the roster "might" be able to step up their game with minimal external improvement; I.E. AD, Brown, Tiller, etc.
I'd be interested in a comprehensive assessment of the players currently on the roster. What is their current and future potential.
Tier 1 Current Pro Bowl
Tier 2 Potential Pro Bowl
Tier 3 Current Starter
Tier 4 Potential Start
Tier 5 Sub-standard, move on
Tier 6 insufficient information
Here is the Niners unofficial depth chart as of 29 Dec
Oline depth chart
LT
Staley, Joe
LG
*Boone, Alex (gone via FA?)
Tiller, Andrew
Silberman, Ian
OC
Kilgore, Daniel
RG
Marcus Martin
Devey, Jordan
Thomas, Brandon
RT
Brown, Trent
Pears, Erik
TBD
*Anthony Davis
Kelly, Colin
There are 281 users in the forums
Assess Oline currently on the roster
Jan 25, 2016 at 7:16 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
Jan 25, 2016 at 7:20 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
LT
Staley, Joe: Tier 1
LG
*Boone, Alex (gone via FA?) Tier 3
Tiller, Andrew: Tier 4
Silberman, Ian: Tier 6
OC
Kilgore, Daniel: Tier 3
RG
Marcus Martin: Tier 4
Devey, Jordan: Tier 6
Thomas, Brandon: Tier 6
RT
Brown, Trent: Tier 4
Pears, Erik: Tier 5
TBD
*Anthony Davis: Tier 2
Kelly, Colin: Tier 6
Staley, Joe: Tier 1
LG
*Boone, Alex (gone via FA?) Tier 3
Tiller, Andrew: Tier 4
Silberman, Ian: Tier 6
OC
Kilgore, Daniel: Tier 3
RG
Marcus Martin: Tier 4
Devey, Jordan: Tier 6
Thomas, Brandon: Tier 6
RT
Brown, Trent: Tier 4
Pears, Erik: Tier 5
TBD
*Anthony Davis: Tier 2
Kelly, Colin: Tier 6
Jan 25, 2016 at 7:32 AM
- joaosoarrs99
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,096
Tier 1
Staley
Tier 2
Tiller
AD
Tier 3
Boone
Kilgore
Tier 4
Brown
Tier 5
Devey
Pears
Martin
Tier 6
Thomas
Kelly
Siberman
Staley
Tier 2
Tiller
AD
Tier 3
Boone
Kilgore
Tier 4
Brown
Tier 5
Devey
Pears
Martin
Tier 6
Thomas
Kelly
Siberman
[ Edited by joaosoarrs99 on Jan 25, 2016 at 7:33 AM ]
Jan 25, 2016 at 8:21 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,298
PFF grades: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/184435-final-pff-grades-good-bad-look-ahead/search=PFF
LOT: Joe Staley (86) - Played at a pro bowl level again.
LG: Andrew Tiller (79) - Outperformed Boone and on the cusp of a pro bowl level (for half a year).
LG: Alex Boone (65); Jordan Devey - UFA who will most likely test the FA market and go to the highest bidder.
C: Daniel Kilgore (39); Ian Silberman - Hard to fully assess as he was still working his way back into NFL shape.
RG: Erik Pears (NG); Brandon Thomas & Marcus Martin - Better at G than T but we need an upgrade badly and I doubt we count on Thomas or Martin again.
ROT: Trenton Brown (60); Colin Kelly (Anthony Davis) - Limited snaps but dominant in the run game and only gave up 1 QB pressure in 94 snaps IIRC.
Anthony Davis is the wild card here. If he does come back, the team could seriously consider sliding him inside to RG. The G positions are everything in Kelly's offense. Due to inside zone blocking that also requires the G's to win 1on1 inside with power often too, Tiller and Davis inside could be ideal b/c both they possess good athleticism (reach blocks/second level) and power. This move would be done only if they feel Brown continues to ascend.
But the single biggest need would probably be at C. Kilgore seems like a really nice fit in Kelly's offense but he lacks power inside and we have no depth behind him. My first move would be to contact Anthony Davis ASAP and the next move, in FA, would be to secure a veteran top-tier C and let he and Kilgore battle it out. Then I would gauge Boone's asking price and true value price range. Right now he's an average G at best but he also adds versatility at T and continuity next to Staley.
Finally, I'd attack both G & T in the draft. There are 6 T's projected to go in the first round alone.
LOT: Joe Staley (86) - Played at a pro bowl level again.
LG: Andrew Tiller (79) - Outperformed Boone and on the cusp of a pro bowl level (for half a year).
LG: Alex Boone (65); Jordan Devey - UFA who will most likely test the FA market and go to the highest bidder.
C: Daniel Kilgore (39); Ian Silberman - Hard to fully assess as he was still working his way back into NFL shape.
RG: Erik Pears (NG); Brandon Thomas & Marcus Martin - Better at G than T but we need an upgrade badly and I doubt we count on Thomas or Martin again.
ROT: Trenton Brown (60); Colin Kelly (Anthony Davis) - Limited snaps but dominant in the run game and only gave up 1 QB pressure in 94 snaps IIRC.
Anthony Davis is the wild card here. If he does come back, the team could seriously consider sliding him inside to RG. The G positions are everything in Kelly's offense. Due to inside zone blocking that also requires the G's to win 1on1 inside with power often too, Tiller and Davis inside could be ideal b/c both they possess good athleticism (reach blocks/second level) and power. This move would be done only if they feel Brown continues to ascend.
But the single biggest need would probably be at C. Kilgore seems like a really nice fit in Kelly's offense but he lacks power inside and we have no depth behind him. My first move would be to contact Anthony Davis ASAP and the next move, in FA, would be to secure a veteran top-tier C and let he and Kilgore battle it out. Then I would gauge Boone's asking price and true value price range. Right now he's an average G at best but he also adds versatility at T and continuity next to Staley.
Finally, I'd attack both G & T in the draft. There are 6 T's projected to go in the first round alone.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 25, 2016 at 8:21 AM ]
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:06 AM
- qnnhan7
- Veteran
- Posts: 34,146
Total over haul. If we can squeeze a couple more good years out of Staley he would be a sure keeper. Boone is valuable because he's somewhat versatile at 2 different position. Trent Brown is intriguing new talent. The rest can be expendable or replaceable. That includes Kilgore. He basically wasn't available because of injury for 2 years.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM ]
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:09 AM
- mojave45
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,034
Throw out everyone but Staley.
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:17 AM
- LasVegasWally
- Veteran
- Posts: 24,247
Originally posted by NCommand:
PFF grades: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/184435-final-pff-grades-good-bad-look-ahead/search=PFF
LOT: Joe Staley (86) - Played at a pro bowl level again.
LG: Andrew Tiller (79) - Outperformed Boone and on the cusp of a pro bowl level (for half a year).
LG: Alex Boone (65); Jordan Devey - UFA who will most likely test the FA market and go to the highest bidder.
C: Daniel Kilgore (39); Ian Silberman - Hard to fully assess as he was still working his way back into NFL shape.
RG: Erik Pears (NG); Brandon Thomas & Marcus Martin - Better at G than T but we need an upgrade badly and I doubt we count on Thomas or Martin again.
ROT: Trenton Brown (60); Colin Kelly (Anthony Davis) - Limited snaps but dominant in the run game and only gave up 1 QB pressure in 94 snaps IIRC.
Anthony Davis is the wild card here. If he does come back, the team could seriously consider sliding him inside to RG. The G positions are everything in Kelly's offense. Due to inside zone blocking that also requires the G's to win 1on1 inside with power often too, Tiller and Davis inside could be ideal b/c both they possess good athleticism (reach blocks/second level) and power. This move would be done only if they feel Brown continues to ascend.
But the single biggest need would probably be at C. Kilgore seems like a really nice fit in Kelly's offense but he lacks power inside and we have no depth behind him. My first move would be to contact Anthony Davis ASAP and the next move, in FA, would be to secure a veteran top-tier C and let he and Kilgore battle it out. Then I would gauge Boone's asking price and true value price range. Right now he's an average G at best but he also adds versatility at T and continuity next to Staley.
Finally, I'd attack both G & T in the draft. There are 6 T's projected to go in the first round alone.
Good post!
IMO, we need to get the very best FA player we can for the Oline.
If Joe goes down and Boone is gone - we have nobody that can man the position.
I'm not buying into the AD savior thing.
I think he's a flake and we can't rely on him deserting the team again.
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:36 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
I totally agree that AD is the X Factor to this years oline rebuild. I LOVE the idea of him kicking in to RG.Originally posted by NCommand:
Anthony Davis is the wild card here. If he does come back, the team could seriously consider sliding him inside to RG. The G positions are everything in Kelly's offense. Due to inside zone blocking that also requires the G's to win 1on1 inside with power often too, Tiller and Davis inside could be ideal b/c both they possess good athleticism (reach blocks/second level) and power. This move would be done only if they feel Brown continues to ascend.
Once again, I'm in complete agreement. Kilgore seemed like a rising star at one point, but after drafting Martin, I have to wonder how much faith the front office has in him. Kilgore seems like the poster boy for this olines issues, potential, but is he good enough?Originally posted by NCommand:
But the single biggest need would probably be at C. Kilgore seems like a really nice fit in Kelly's offense but he lacks power inside and we have no depth behind him. My first move would be to contact Anthony Davis ASAP and the next move, in FA, would be to secure a veteran top-tier C and let he and Kilgore battle it out.
Originally posted by NCommand:Then I would gauge Boone's asking price and true value price range. Right now he's an average G at best but he also adds versatility at T and continuity next to Staley.
I'm ready to move on from Boone. To much drama, not enough Pro Bowls.
I love this. Either a) draft Stanley at #7, play him at RT for now until Staley is ready to step aside, b) trade down and draft Decker, Conklin, Coleman, etc.Originally posted by NCommand:Finally, I'd attack both G & T in the draft. There are 6 T's projected to go in the first round alone.
Also, I think they should draft a project OT later in the draft. Someone like Hawkins or Haeg.
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:37 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,298
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Good post!
IMO, we need to get the very best FA player we can for the Oline.
If Joe goes down and Boone is gone - we have nobody that can man the position.
I'm not buying into the AD savior thing.
I think he's a flake and we can't rely on him deserting the team again.
Even if Davis DOES sign his reinstatement papers, Baalke still needs to treat the draft and FA as is he's not even there!
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:39 AM
- pasodoc9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,009
Thru FA and Draft, we need 3 starting OL.
Guys that start Staley
Guys that could start Brown
Guys that we need to cut Pears, Martin Devey
Guys that need to move on Kilgore ( we can't have a Center who gets beat routinely) Boone (can't stay healthy)
Still in the mix or not enough info Thomas, Silberman Colin Kelly Tiller.
Do not count on AD.
In summary, we have Staley, who is starting to get long in the tooth. Brown should have been starting all last yr, but since he didn't now he has to play more to become a long term OL starter. He definitely starts this yr, but will get beaten from time to time. It is worth the wait.
Unfortunately, that is it. Love the Colin Kelly FA, but we know nothing about him up close and personal . Silbernam, Tiller and Thomas are all "need more info" which translates into more playing time to evaluate. This should have been a priority last year, once we saw the epic Pears, Devey and Martin FAILURES.
So we got 2 tackles, one green, one getting older, and 4 guys (one from CFL, just acquired) which we need to find out about in TC, PS. None of the others, appear , so far , to be standouts. We are talking about backups, for Thomas, Silberman and Tiller. Kelly may be more promising. Looking at this from afar, we MUST HAVE 3 Oline starters from FA , Draft.
Center is a priority in that we cannot keep having our C get beat, get put on his butt, or have himn pushed back into the QB . We are a failure at C. Here we should buy either Albert,
Pouncey or Mack, who will be a STARTER. This is a MUST DO.
OT/OGs we need to buy(FA) an OG and the other can be OT/ OG but both must be guaranted STARTERS . If we bought 2 OGs/ OTs, that would be fine. This is expensive, and hopefully one of our 1st of 2 First round picks(yes i am advocating trading up for another rd 1 pick) , which would mean we could get by with only FAing C and one OT /OG, drafting the other OT/OG with our first round pick. With our second first rd pick we get BPA either OLB passrusher vs DT, and whichever it is, must be a day one starter. Then in round TWO, again trade up for a second rd 2 pick, and get the DT or WR, whichever is a surefire starter, getting the other with our 2nd Round 2 pick. That then would end our draft, with 12 picks going in, and having an extra in rd 1 and also in rd 2. This would almost surely require adding a high profile player, and i am guessing it would be Kap.
We have 4 guys including Kelly that could be in rotation, but must prove themselves first. A lot of folks think getting 3 guaranteed OL starters is crazy, but we have to build our OL first and we cannot be doing it with "guys on the cheap", or "good deals". We got that from Pears, Devey and Martin. And anyone thinking Kilgore is the answer at C is kidding themselves. Boone....no thanks. Have seen enough, and it isn't sufficient, plus he has has problem staying healthy.
So, 3 STARTING OLs are a must. Getting rid of 5 of our current OLs is a MUST. Now, AD , if he shows up is just gravy. But to plan for him to be here is foolish. If he shows up and contributes, fantastic. Point is, depending on AD is a poor way to run a business. He is just gravy....welcome gravy, but gravy none the less.
Doing the above gets rid of guys who were not adequate, were absolutely awful, have lost "it", or never should have been here to start with. With an extra round 1 pick plus an extra rd 2 pick , will allow us to draft STARTERS at OL, DT, OLB passrusher, and WR. We cannot afford , once again, to get OL draft picks who are "good deals" or "steals". We have done that and failed. FIX the OL FIRST. , and then move on for OLB, DT and WR. AGain, all MUST BE STARTERS.
Guys that start Staley
Guys that could start Brown
Guys that we need to cut Pears, Martin Devey
Guys that need to move on Kilgore ( we can't have a Center who gets beat routinely) Boone (can't stay healthy)
Still in the mix or not enough info Thomas, Silberman Colin Kelly Tiller.
Do not count on AD.
In summary, we have Staley, who is starting to get long in the tooth. Brown should have been starting all last yr, but since he didn't now he has to play more to become a long term OL starter. He definitely starts this yr, but will get beaten from time to time. It is worth the wait.
Unfortunately, that is it. Love the Colin Kelly FA, but we know nothing about him up close and personal . Silbernam, Tiller and Thomas are all "need more info" which translates into more playing time to evaluate. This should have been a priority last year, once we saw the epic Pears, Devey and Martin FAILURES.
So we got 2 tackles, one green, one getting older, and 4 guys (one from CFL, just acquired) which we need to find out about in TC, PS. None of the others, appear , so far , to be standouts. We are talking about backups, for Thomas, Silberman and Tiller. Kelly may be more promising. Looking at this from afar, we MUST HAVE 3 Oline starters from FA , Draft.
Center is a priority in that we cannot keep having our C get beat, get put on his butt, or have himn pushed back into the QB . We are a failure at C. Here we should buy either Albert,
Pouncey or Mack, who will be a STARTER. This is a MUST DO.
OT/OGs we need to buy(FA) an OG and the other can be OT/ OG but both must be guaranted STARTERS . If we bought 2 OGs/ OTs, that would be fine. This is expensive, and hopefully one of our 1st of 2 First round picks(yes i am advocating trading up for another rd 1 pick) , which would mean we could get by with only FAing C and one OT /OG, drafting the other OT/OG with our first round pick. With our second first rd pick we get BPA either OLB passrusher vs DT, and whichever it is, must be a day one starter. Then in round TWO, again trade up for a second rd 2 pick, and get the DT or WR, whichever is a surefire starter, getting the other with our 2nd Round 2 pick. That then would end our draft, with 12 picks going in, and having an extra in rd 1 and also in rd 2. This would almost surely require adding a high profile player, and i am guessing it would be Kap.
We have 4 guys including Kelly that could be in rotation, but must prove themselves first. A lot of folks think getting 3 guaranteed OL starters is crazy, but we have to build our OL first and we cannot be doing it with "guys on the cheap", or "good deals". We got that from Pears, Devey and Martin. And anyone thinking Kilgore is the answer at C is kidding themselves. Boone....no thanks. Have seen enough, and it isn't sufficient, plus he has has problem staying healthy.
So, 3 STARTING OLs are a must. Getting rid of 5 of our current OLs is a MUST. Now, AD , if he shows up is just gravy. But to plan for him to be here is foolish. If he shows up and contributes, fantastic. Point is, depending on AD is a poor way to run a business. He is just gravy....welcome gravy, but gravy none the less.
Doing the above gets rid of guys who were not adequate, were absolutely awful, have lost "it", or never should have been here to start with. With an extra round 1 pick plus an extra rd 2 pick , will allow us to draft STARTERS at OL, DT, OLB passrusher, and WR. We cannot afford , once again, to get OL draft picks who are "good deals" or "steals". We have done that and failed. FIX the OL FIRST. , and then move on for OLB, DT and WR. AGain, all MUST BE STARTERS.
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:50 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
It seems like OG should be a strengh on this team, even without AD.
Assuming they cut Devey and Pears.
If I assume that Tiller has earned a chance to at least compete for a starting OG spot at camp, AND they sign a FA OC, that means they only need to fill an OG and OT.
Here's the list they have to choose from for OG (without AD)
Kilgore
Martin
Thomas
Silberman
My target is a dominant front 5 who gives the QB time like Newton had this season. No way they keep all four of those guys if they are not in the rotation, especially if AD comes back.
So what is the projected depth chart with off season additions?
Assuming they cut Devey and Pears.
If I assume that Tiller has earned a chance to at least compete for a starting OG spot at camp, AND they sign a FA OC, that means they only need to fill an OG and OT.
Here's the list they have to choose from for OG (without AD)
Kilgore
Martin
Thomas
Silberman
My target is a dominant front 5 who gives the QB time like Newton had this season. No way they keep all four of those guys if they are not in the rotation, especially if AD comes back.
So what is the projected depth chart with off season additions?
Jan 25, 2016 at 9:54 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
Projected depth chart?
LT: Staley, Kelly
LG: Tiller, Thomas
OC: Free Agent, Kilgore, Martin
RG: AD, Martin, Thomas
RT: rookie, Brown
LT: Staley, Kelly
LG: Tiller, Thomas
OC: Free Agent, Kilgore, Martin
RG: AD, Martin, Thomas
RT: rookie, Brown
Jan 25, 2016 at 10:03 AM
- thl408
- Moderator
- Posts: 32,303
Originally posted by Butter:
It seems like OG should be a strengh on this team, even without AD.
Assuming they cut Devey and Pears.
If I assume that Tiller has earned a chance to at least compete for a starting OG spot at camp, AND they sign a FA OC, that means they only need to fill an OG and OT.
Here's the list they have to choose from for OG (without AD)
Kilgore
Martin
Thomas
Silberman
My target is a dominant front 5 who gives the QB time like Newton had this season. No way they keep all four of those guys if they are not in the rotation, especially if AD comes back.
So what is the projected depth chart with off season additions?
How is OG a strength on the OL when you immediately say they need to sign someone to fill a spot? You're basically saying, "OG is a strength if they can acquire a good OG." By that logic, "the 49ers are also set at QB if they can get a good QB".
Jan 25, 2016 at 10:05 AM
- KajunNiner
- Veteran
- Posts: 778
Originally posted by thl408:
How is OG a strength on the OL when you immediately say they need to sign someone to fill a spot? You're basically saying, "OG is a strength if they can acquire a good OG." By that logic, "the 49ers are also set at QB if they can get a good QB".
lol
Jan 25, 2016 at 10:09 AM
- Butter
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,331
Originally posted by thl408:Originally posted by Butter:It seems like OG should be a strengh on this team, even without AD.
Assuming they cut Devey and Pears.
If I assume that Tiller has earned a chance to at least compete for a starting OG spot at camp, AND they sign a FA OC, that means they only need to fill an OG and OT.
Here's the list they have to choose from for OG (without AD)
Kilgore
Martin
Thomas
Silberman
My target is a dominant front 5 who gives the QB time like Newton had this season. No way they keep all four of those guys if they are not in the rotation, especially if AD comes back.
So what is the projected depth chart with off season additions?
How is OG a strength on the OL when you immediately say they need to sign someone to fill a spot? You're basically saying, "OG is a strength if they can acquire a good OG." By that logic, "the 49ers are also set at QB if they can get a good QB".
I said OG should be a strength on this team. Balke has invested a lot of picks into that position in the recent past. Many of those players listed are still young.
If they sign a starting OC, draft a starting RT, the only remaining portion to resolve is the 2nd starting OG.
So to get more specific, can any of those young OG be considered competitors for starting OG?
[ Edited by Butter on Jan 25, 2016 at 10:12 AM ]