Chip's Coaching Concepts 2.0

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
This is what happens when the defense crashes down so hard on the RB dive (inside zone) because they don't respect the QB keeper. This is Foles.


A mobile QB might get more yards, but a mobile QB would have kept the defense honest with regards to respecting the QB keeper, and wouldn't have had that much room to run.

We tend to get too wrapped up on 40 times in regards to QBs (well, everyone). I think the willingness of a QB to keep is just as important as their speed. If Bradford refused to keep it, he made it basically just a dive play.

The QBs in the upcoming draft are in that 4.8-4.9 range. That's passable just not overly athletic. I believe Kap was 4.5 and Gabbert was in that 4.6 range.

Good points, guys. I also think a QB's speed is overrated when talking about Kelly's zone read. Don't need a dynamic running QB to use the zone-read effectively, just need to be mobile enough to pick up some yards when the key defender crashes down on the RB like that.

I believe Kelly when he says the most important thing to him is repetitive accuracy throwing the football. Aside from Vick, who he inherited, he always went after guys who were more pocket passers. Would love to pair a top-tier passing talent in Kelly's offense, he hasn't had that yet but still produced some dynamic offenses.

From what I've seen of Kelly's offense - the QB is used more like how Sea uses R. Wilson. The QB run is more secondary(well, more probably tertiary) to the play. One way Sea makes their zone-read more effective is that they're stubborn with the RB handoff for the first qtr or 2. They treat it just like a stretch zone play and wait until the DE consistently crashes down and then take advantage. Think of all the broadcasts you've seen of the Seahawks and the commentators saying, "if Russel Wilson decides to keep that, it's wide open". Because they'll just run it as a stretch zone and lull the defense to sleep on the QB portion. That's how Kelly liked to use it. He wanted the zone run and the WR screen as the 2 primary options. Notice the WR screen at the bottom of the GIF - very common in Chip's zone read. It's what also helps create that running lane for the QB. We don't need a HR hitting QB to make it effective. If there's a threat of even 5 yards from a QB on that play, it's effective enough.

Why not just attack it like playing against an option run? Crash the end and have the inside backer come around the end full speed? Or run blitz that s**t. The QB, with his eyes on the end and making a decision usually doesn't have much time to step back and read where the pass should go. He will almost ALWAYS be hit while throwing and NO QB wants that.

That's what they were referring to when they talked about, "scrape exchange". Scrape is a term for crashing down off the edge. Mangini liked to do it with Tartt, at times in a SS scrape.

It is a pretty common method now for trying to defend against the zone-read. However, it will often open up the short seam for TE or WR routes - which chip likes to take advantage of a lot.

We haven't always talked nuts and bolts as to why, "repetitive accuracy" and "quick release" are important aspects to a Kelly QB. But, such a situation is a perfect example.

With the LB coming around on a scrape exchange the defense opens itself up to the quick pass in the short/intermediate area of the seam -almost like a hot route.

While not a "scrape exchange" you'll see how the threat to defend the zone-read and attempt to defend it can open up the passing lanes but is best with a QB who has a quicker release.


The ends are going to try and pinch down the running lane.


With the zone-read PA the ILB takes an inside angle to play inside/out against the zone-read and the OLB/DE is trying to crash down on the edge.


pretty much right after the fake Foles pulls the trigger on the throw over the middle. You see how the TE is crossing the field into the zone that should be filled with the ILB that played the zone-read.


It's a quick hitting play. From snap through run fake and release it's about 2.5 seconds.

This is an example of why a quick release and snap judgement is needed for a Kelly QB.

Yeah but the quick pass can be averted with single high man coverage which will result in a low percentage throw to most likely a WR being manned. No way Kap can make those quick throws. Not the QB we need for this offense in the NFL. Key word, NFL: much faster defensive closing than college. This is why it is extremely important to have a QB who can outrun LBs.

if you watch Kap throws, he'll remind you of a pitcher... that slow delivery, the Randall Cunningham long winding delivery...

this is the reason why he's unable to complete a simple Slant pass.. by the time he releases the ball, the WR would already be in the hash mark..

Bring in the Chip camp!

Too soon?

Kelly's scheme is beautifully simple. To a fault, sometimes. At Oregon, I saw him run the same play 11 times in a row on three different series because the defense never stopped it. It's all about mismatches. As the video above shows, if they crash, you keep it, if they don't you hand off and watch the running back pick up bunches. Ideally the defense wants the ball out of the QB's hand, so they don't crash and keep the RB inside and hop a LB or DB makes a play. When they crash, and they will, the QB will keep it and run for miles. In the exact same formation, a crashing DE will let the QB roll slightly for a lot of time to throw. Then you'll get blitzes and bubble screens will kill them. Chip's main problem in Philly was his poor guard play his last season and his lack of a mobile QB to keep the defenses from crashing every play. No need to have a spy on the QB if there is literally no chance they run.

On the other hand, I have seen Chip run the same play 4-5 times in a row getting stuffed at the line in the 1st quarter because he is setting up a play for the 3rd or 4th quarter.

I have studied this offense for years, taught it to kids in high school and even talked to Chip about it at length. It's a really brilliant concept.

Originally posted by TexasDuck:
Kelly's scheme is beautifully simple. To a fault, sometimes. At Oregon, I saw him run the same play 11 times in a row on three different series because the defense never stopped it. It's all about mismatches. As the video above shows, if they crash, you keep it, if they don't you hand off and watch the running back pick up bunches. Ideally the defense wants the ball out of the QB's hand, so they don't crash and keep the RB inside and hop a LB or DB makes a play. When they crash, and they will, the QB will keep it and run for miles. In the exact same formation, a crashing DE will let the QB roll slightly for a lot of time to throw. Then you'll get blitzes and bubble screens will kill them. Chip's main problem in Philly was his poor guard play his last season and his lack of a mobile QB to keep the defenses from crashing every play. No need to have a spy on the QB if there is literally no chance they run.

On the other hand, I have seen Chip run the same play 4-5 times in a row getting stuffed at the line in the 1st quarter because he is setting up a play for the 3rd or 4th quarter.

I have studied this offense for years, taught it to kids in high school and even talked to Chip about it at length. It's a really brilliant concept.

Hearing Chip talk, he breaks it down to simple math, and that's what his spread concepts look to achieve. Space the field out, look for numbers advantage. If the defense plays man coverage, then isolate the favorable 1v1 matchup in space. That's basically what his entire offense boils down to. The hard part for this 49er offense is finding a favorable 1v1 matchup. Not counting the QB, I think the offense is lacking a third playmaker. I like Torrey and Hyde, but there has to be a third playmaker to force the defense to play 1v1 somewhere on the field.

Originally posted by thl408:
Hearing Chip talk, he breaks it down to simple math, and that's what his spread concepts look to achieve. Space the field out, look for numbers advantage. If the defense plays man coverage, then isolate the favorable 1v1 matchup in space. That's basically what his entire offense boils down to. The hard part for this 49er offense is finding a favorable 1v1 matchup. Not counting the QB, I think the offense is lacking a third playmaker. I like Torrey and Hyde, but there has to be a third playmaker to force the defense to play 1v1 somewhere on the field.

The third play maker will be the TE that emerges. He'll be open all day

concept??

OUTSCORING THE OPPONENTS BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY!!

Originally posted by thl408:
Hearing Chip talk, he breaks it down to simple math, and that's what his spread concepts look to achieve. Space the field out, look for numbers advantage. If the defense plays man coverage, then isolate the favorable 1v1 matchup in space. That's basically what his entire offense boils down to. The hard part for this 49er offense is finding a favorable 1v1 matchup. Not counting the QB, I think the offense is lacking a third playmaker. I like Torrey and Hyde, but there has to be a third playmaker to force the defense to play 1v1 somewhere on the field.

This is exactly what NE has been doing for a few years and it has been tied directly with consulting with Kelly. The main thing is that NE is great at acquiring those shifty tough smaller receivers or RB's who can emulate what those receivers can. This is what made them a very ball control offense.

The years NE has been a deadly offense has been when Gronk is healthy or when they had Moss. The combination of the 1v1 jitterbug target and a big deep threat has been deadly.

The main difference from their offense and Kelly's offense has been for the QB to find that 1v1 using his experience whereas Kelly offense forces the defense to identify it through the read option.

It still made me wonder why we signed Randy Moss and didn't send him DEEP 3 to 5x per game..

Originally posted by 9moon:

It still made me wonder why we signed Randy Moss and didn't send him DEEP 3 to 5x per game..

Really? In that offense?

Why not.. we signed a GO GETTER DEEP BALL ARTIST in Moss.. we didn't sign the guy to run such fine routes..

Originally posted by 9moon:

concept??

OUTSCORING THE OPPONENTS BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY!!

Agree with this for sure!

Originally posted by 9moon:

Why not.. we signed a GO GETTER DEEP BALL ARTIST in Moss.. we didn't sign the guy to run such fine routes..

Because Roman

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by 9moon:
It still made me wonder why we signed Randy Moss and didn't send him DEEP 3 to 5x per game..

Really? In that offense?

The Flaw in that system = Harbaugh sticking with Roman's philosohpy (could've been what Harbs wanted as well)

Roman is the OC... somewhere along the line, as a HC, you've got to ORDER your staff to use each player's strength!!

Originally posted by Crown:
Bring in the Chip camp!

Too soon?

I don't get it. You're a funny guy, and I want to laugh, but I don't understand the joke.