Could a coach succeed with our current roster?

Originally posted by mtl_49er:

"we have the worst roster and baalke is a joke" - but we got 5 wins so doesnt that mean tomsula turned garbage into gold?
nope. tomsula is the worst coach EVARRRR - we won 5 games with the worst coach ever then doesnt that mean we have some pretty decent talent?
"No Baalke sucks we have the worst roster in the league!"

make up your damned minds people...

This. They can't have it both ways.

If we had one decent win against the Vikings and four ugly wins then even a good coach would be happy with 5 from this team. Walsh had 2 but was properly building something amazing. A great coach can manage their way through mediocre talent by building a core then slowly developing or acquiring winners.

This franchise can be anything if the GM got the players the coach needs and Jed just signed the cheques no questions asked. But first go all out for a great coach. Won't happen.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Jim Tomsula got 5 wins out of this roster. A real coach has to be worth 2 or 3 more.

At least. Problem is Niners got Seattle and Arizona in their division and it doesn't look like they will be bad anytime soon

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:

This team has more talent than most of you think, combine that with all the cap space we have plus the draft and I expect us to compete for a playoff spot next season

Half the posters on here were predicting we'd go .500 this year. I don't think the majority of the webzone is guilty of underestimating the talent on this team. I see it as significantly less talented than most people on here - I think we're one of the least talented teams in the league. Other people will point to the team's average age as if having young players means the team will be good in the future, but we don't have many good young players. Lynch is promising and Hyde would be if he wasn't injury prone. I still think Armstead could be pretty good, but it will take a couple good drafts to make up for this past offseason and some of Baalke's recent drafts.

Too many high picks haven't panned out recently (Jenkins (1st), James (2nd), Tank (2nd), McDonald (2nd), Lemonier (3rd), Ward (1st), Martin (3rd)). One of the few picks that looked pretty good has already retired (Borland). We haven't had a good draft since 2011 and we already lost Aldon and Cully.

Ward was one of the best defensive players in the NFL in the last 2 months. Martin is a bust for now but he could turn it around in a few years(look at Tiller).

Our 2014 draft was pretty good. We drafted Lynch(top 3 49ers defensive player), Hyde(our best offensive player), Ward(our best defender in the last 2 months), Borland(would be one of the best young ILBs if he hadn't retired), Dontae Johnson(was great in limited snaps) and Kenneth Acker(was ok).

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by mtl_49er:

"we have the worst roster and baalke is a joke" - but we got 5 wins so doesnt that mean tomsula turned garbage into gold?
nope. tomsula is the worst coach EVARRRR - we won 5 games with the worst coach ever then doesnt that mean we have some pretty decent talent?
"No Baalke sucks we have the worst roster in the league!"

make up your damned minds people...

This. They can't have it both ways.

We were extremely lucky to have 5 wins (thanks missed field goals). It doesn't have anything to do with Tomsula. We were the 2nd worst team in +/- I believe and the Browns have several pieces to build around and are getting one of their best offensive players back this year. If they keep Mack, they are a better football team than we are and they likely got a better head coach than we will.

This was a 3 win team, but unfortunately we screwed up our draft position winning games we should not have. A decent head coach (all we're likely to get at this point) and some free agent acquisitions could have a moderate impact, but we'll still be looking at a 6-10 team talent wise next season.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

We were extremely lucky to have 5 wins (thanks missed field goals). It doesn't have anything to do with Tomsula. We were the 2nd worst team in +/- I believe and the Browns have several pieces to build around and are getting one of their best offensive players back this year. If they keep Mack, they are a better football team than we are and they likely got a better head coach than we will.

This was a 3 win team, but unfortunately we screwed up our draft position winning games we should not have. A decent head coach (all we're likely to get at this point) and some free agent acquisitions could have a moderate impact, but we'll still be looking at a 6-10 team talent wise next season.

Can you explain the Tomsula comment?

Depends on the system and coach and even then it is a tall order...there are very QB friendly systems out there that I believe if installed here we could be competitive. We would still be a few years from making real noise but we could hop right back into the wild card race. The problem is we don't match those systems at the skill positions. They are usually RAC heavy type plans that require agile pass catchers who operate well in small spaces. We have power receivers and long ball catchers, no real pass catching backs and any guys we have with speed tend be less agile and more of the deep threat/ long strider type. We are kind of stuck, we have to get the most out of one of our current QB's next year barring trade because the draftable kids are projects and our skill positions do not really match up with the type of systems that would allow for that.....

I

Originally posted by joaosoarrs99:

Ward was one of the best defensive players in the NFL in the last 2 months. Martin is a bust for now but he could turn it around in a few years(look at Tiller).

Our 2014 draft was pretty good. We drafted Lynch(top 3 49ers defensive player), Hyde(our best offensive player), Ward(our best defender in the last 2 months), Borland(would be one of the best young ILBs if he hadn't retired), Dontae Johnson(was great in limited snaps) and Kenneth Acker(was ok).

Ward has not looked like a good pick so far - he started playing a little better but he's still in between positions and has not played as well as Roby who should have been the pick if we went cornerback. He's starting to be a decent player (not playing better than Williams or Lynch), but as a first round pick, getting a mediocre player isn't a huge success. We drafted an injury prone RB in the 2nd who is one of our better offensive players because our offense stinks. He's not better than Joe Staley who is our best offensive player by far. Our 3rd round pick looked great until he retired.

We'll have to agree to disagree that this was a good draft. There's still time for these guys to develop, but I don't consider it a good draft right now.

We are young with loads of cap space. IMO sure up the o line because it was horrific. To be honest kap and gabbert aren't the answer. If we don't realize that by now we deserve tomsula back.

Hope to draft a franchise qb and build from there. I say this because teams with abfranchise qb are in contention every year. That's what I'd like as a fan.

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

We were extremely lucky to have 5 wins (thanks missed field goals). It doesn't have anything to do with Tomsula. We were the 2nd worst team in +/- I believe and the Browns have several pieces to build around and are getting one of their best offensive players back this year. If they keep Mack, they are a better football team than we are and they likely got a better head coach than we will.

This was a 3 win team, but unfortunately we screwed up our draft position winning games we should not have. A decent head coach (all we're likely to get at this point) and some free agent acquisitions could have a moderate impact, but we'll still be looking at a 6-10 team talent wise next season.

Can you explain the Tomsula comment?

Thought it was obvious. We played like the 2nd worst team in the league which isn't overachieving. Luck was a bigger factor in winning 5 games than coaching was in my opinion. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he wasn't good and my only issue with him getting fired is that it may scare other coaches away knowing they may be fired for failing to turn around a bad situation in one year. I'm optimistic that our next coach will be a little better, but we may not win 2 games because the opponent misses late field goals and win a number of other close games as well. Free agency and the draft will have a bigger impact because this team desperately needs talent, but we'll probably be looking at a 6-10 team given the division we are playing in. If we're as lucky as we write this year, maybe we'll win 8 games, but I'd prefer to go 5-11 and get another high draft pick if we want to make the playoffs. I do hope our +/- improves over 2nd worst in the league which will be a good sign of improvement.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Thought it was obvious. We played like the 2nd worst team in the league which isn't overachieving. Luck was a bigger factor in winning 5 games than coaching was in my opinion. I don't think he was a terrible coach, but he wasn't good and my only issue with him getting fired is that it may scare other coaches away knowing they may be fired for failing to turn around a bad situation in one year. I'm optimistic that our next coach will be a little better, but we may not win 2 games because the opponent misses late field goals and win a number of other close games as well. Free agency and the draft will have a bigger impact because this team desperately needs talent, but we'll probably be looking at a 6-10 team given the division we are playing in. If we're as lucky as we write this year, maybe we'll win 8 games, but I'd prefer to go 5-11 and get another high draft pick if we want to make the playoffs. I do hope our +/- improves over 2nd worst in the league which will be a good sign of improvement.

I'm not a big fan of failing your way to success though. And another season with JT would have been unbearable. We need a HC that can attract good staff and players.

Depends on how you measure "success". If success is 6-7 wins next year, then it is a possibility. 10+ wins...maybe in 3-4 years with good drafting and free agent moves. IMO anything less than 6 wins next year equals firing Baalke and starting from square one.

Originally posted by ltrain:

Depends on how you measure "success". If success is 6-7 wins next year, then it is a possibility. 10+ wins...maybe in 3-4 years with good drafting and free agent moves. IMO anything less than 6 wins next year equals firing Baalke and starting from square one.

Success = SB

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by joaosoarrs99:

Ward was one of the best defensive players in the NFL in the last 2 months. Martin is a bust for now but he could turn it around in a few years(look at Tiller).

Our 2014 draft was pretty good. We drafted Lynch(top 3 49ers defensive player), Hyde(our best offensive player), Ward(our best defender in the last 2 months), Borland(would be one of the best young ILBs if he hadn't retired), Dontae Johnson(was great in limited snaps) and Kenneth Acker(was ok).

Ward has not looked like a good pick so far - he started playing a little better but he's still in between positions and has not played as well as Roby who should have been the pick if we went cornerback. He's starting to be a decent player (not playing better than Williams or Lynch), but as a first round pick, getting a mediocre player isn't a huge success. We drafted an injury prone RB in the 2nd who is one of our better offensive players because our offense stinks. He's not better than Joe Staley who is our best offensive player by far. Our 3rd round pick looked great until he retired.

We'll have to agree to disagree that this was a good draft. There's still time for these guys to develop, but I don't consider it a good draft right now.

IMO Ward has looked like a good pick and in the last 2 months he has played better than Lynch and about the same level of Williams. Also IMO Hyde is better than Staley and if he can stay healthy he's a top 5 running back. Borland retirement is not Baalke fault.