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We are looking for a modern version of Bill Walsh and his legacy.
Jan 8, 2016 at 8:07 PM
- 190836
- Veteran
- Posts: 11,930
The closest coach to BW is Mike Holmgren. He runs a version of the WCO that is most similar to what some of us older fans are use to. This come from Steve Young in one of his interviews on KNBR.
Jan 8, 2016 at 8:26 PM
- Temecula49ersfan
- Veteran
- Posts: 916
Since Hue Jackson worked with both Mooch and Paul Hackett, shouldn't he be part of the Walsh coaching tree?
Jan 8, 2016 at 8:30 PM
- Phoenix49ers
- Moderator
- Posts: 119,212
Originally posted by Temecula49ersfan:
Since Hue Jackson worked with both Mooch and Paul Hackett, shouldn't he be part of the Walsh coaching tree?
He also worked under Marvin Lewis who worked under Brian Billick who worked under Denny Green who worked under........But he worked under Marty Schottenheimer as well.
Jan 8, 2016 at 9:15 PM
- Crown
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 34,866
Will we ever see another Walsh?
I mean will an owner ever really give a guy 3+ seasons in the salary cap era?
I mean will an owner ever really give a guy 3+ seasons in the salary cap era?
Jan 8, 2016 at 9:49 PM
- 190836
- Veteran
- Posts: 11,930
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Temecula49ersfan:
Since Hue Jackson worked with both Mooch and Paul Hackett, shouldn't he be part of the Walsh coaching tree?
He also worked under Marvin Lewis who worked under Brian Billick who worked under Denny Green who worked under........But he worked under Marty Schottenheimer as well.
What kind of offense does Hue Jackson run? WCO?
[ Edited by 190836 on Jan 8, 2016 at 9:49 PM ]
Jan 8, 2016 at 9:56 PM
- father49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,796
Originally posted by Niners816:
Last play he ever called in the NFL
I don't think any QB on our roster can make that pass.
Jan 8, 2016 at 10:00 PM
- Vito_Corleone
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,285
Originally posted by 190836:
The closest coach to BW is Mike Holmgren. He runs a version of the WCO that is most similar to what some of us older fans are use to. This come from Steve Young in one of his interviews on KNBR.
Hire Holmgren and a young genius coordinator to groom to transition to the next Walsh
Jan 8, 2016 at 10:14 PM
- fropwns
- #1 Greenlaw Fan
- Posts: 26,468
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
"I think the creative and innovative coaches are the ones who are introspective; ones who like to develop their ideas; ones who take a look at all the equations and want to find the right answers."--Bill F'ing Walsh.
Out of all the candidates out there........I'd probably say Chip Kelly is the closest to fit that paradigm.
For more than a decade, he shared a dingy office in the basement with another coach; the whiteboard behind his desk where he diagrammed plays remains. Then, a decade ago, Chip took his ideas west, to Oregon, and quickly transformed a so-so college program into a national power.
A nobody. A guy who wasn't even the head coach in Durham is now shifting the landscape of pro football as well, in just his third season coaching the Eagles.
On first blush, he's like some genius kid who starts tinkering with electronics in a garage when he's still in junior high and suddenly pops up a dozen years later as the head of a huge computer company. But no — computer geeks toil virgin ground, open to the innovative. Football is the opposite. Football has rules and traditions and the way things have always been done and the way they must continue to be done. In football, you pay your dues and build on the past.
Chip Kelly rejects all that. "This is the way we've always done it" — he has formally jettisoned that sentiment from his coaches' brains.
It's clear, for example, that Chip Kelly doesn't give a rat's ass what other people think of him. Which some people find quite discombobulating. An NFL insider who spent hours with Kelly over dinner a few years ago describes a surreal divide: Chip has a brilliant football mind and can talk endlessly about the game — at warp speed, the way he always talks — but doesn't seem to be there with you in the moments that aren't about football. He won't make eye contact. He seems to be daydreaming, and you sit there wondering what he's really thinking. Usually, of course, getting to know someone is a combination of what he's saying and how he feels to you, his body language, the little interjected moments of, say, "How's your steak?" Chip seems devoid of those moments. He shares almost nothing of himself. He doesn't ask questions. He doesn't seem normal, says the NFL guy, who was left, after spending several hours with Kelly, with the most basic fear:
Doesn't Chip like me?
"I think he leads most of his life thinking solely about the game. And he doesn't suffer fools." I ask Scarano if he likes Chip. "Oh, yeah. Chip is Chip, look at it that way. All coaches are alphas. Chip is double alpha. He's not going to crack wise, not make small talk all the time. But in moments when he's relaxed, he's a fun guy to be with. He doesn't show it to everybody."
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/chip-kelly-eagles/
I see a couple that can be pretty good HC's, Chip is the only one that I think has upper-echelon HC potential, on the other hand he might be the guy most likely to completely flame out and vanish from the NFL.
I agree. It really comes down to whether he has learned or not from his past mistakes.
Jan 8, 2016 at 11:12 PM
- teylo31
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,053
Love BW but its getting old. Its not like his tree is winning SB after SB
Jan 9, 2016 at 1:03 AM
- NinerSickness
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Giovanni Carmazzi
Jan 9, 2016 at 3:17 AM
- zugschef
- Veteran
- Posts: 151
Originally posted by father49er:
Originally posted by Niners816:
Last play he ever called in the NFL
I don't think any QB on our roster can make that pass.
Go to 3:25 of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOdykFyGbtQ
That throw is just as tough.
Jan 9, 2016 at 5:40 AM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,385
Originally posted by fropwns:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
"I think the creative and innovative coaches are the ones who are introspective; ones who like to develop their ideas; ones who take a look at all the equations and want to find the right answers."--Bill F'ing Walsh.
Out of all the candidates out there........I'd probably say Chip Kelly is the closest to fit that paradigm.
For more than a decade, he shared a dingy office in the basement with another coach; the whiteboard behind his desk where he diagrammed plays remains. Then, a decade ago, Chip took his ideas west, to Oregon, and quickly transformed a so-so college program into a national power.
A nobody. A guy who wasn't even the head coach in Durham is now shifting the landscape of pro football as well, in just his third season coaching the Eagles.
On first blush, he's like some genius kid who starts tinkering with electronics in a garage when he's still in junior high and suddenly pops up a dozen years later as the head of a huge computer company. But no — computer geeks toil virgin ground, open to the innovative. Football is the opposite. Football has rules and traditions and the way things have always been done and the way they must continue to be done. In football, you pay your dues and build on the past.
Chip Kelly rejects all that. "This is the way we've always done it" — he has formally jettisoned that sentiment from his coaches' brains.
It's clear, for example, that Chip Kelly doesn't give a rat's ass what other people think of him. Which some people find quite discombobulating. An NFL insider who spent hours with Kelly over dinner a few years ago describes a surreal divide: Chip has a brilliant football mind and can talk endlessly about the game — at warp speed, the way he always talks — but doesn't seem to be there with you in the moments that aren't about football. He won't make eye contact. He seems to be daydreaming, and you sit there wondering what he's really thinking. Usually, of course, getting to know someone is a combination of what he's saying and how he feels to you, his body language, the little interjected moments of, say, "How's your steak?" Chip seems devoid of those moments. He shares almost nothing of himself. He doesn't ask questions. He doesn't seem normal, says the NFL guy, who was left, after spending several hours with Kelly, with the most basic fear:
Doesn't Chip like me?
"I think he leads most of his life thinking solely about the game. And he doesn't suffer fools." I ask Scarano if he likes Chip. "Oh, yeah. Chip is Chip, look at it that way. All coaches are alphas. Chip is double alpha. He's not going to crack wise, not make small talk all the time. But in moments when he's relaxed, he's a fun guy to be with. He doesn't show it to everybody."
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/chip-kelly-eagles/
I see a couple that can be pretty good HC's, Chip is the only one that I think has upper-echelon HC potential, on the other hand he might be the guy most likely to completely flame out and vanish from the NFL.
I agree. It really comes down to whether he has learned or not from his past mistakes.
Absolutely not. Chip Kelly does not have 13 years of experience designing pro passing attacks. His gadget concepts have become ineffective in less than 32 games. Dude has not the experience to be a "genius". Bill Walsh spent a long time out of the spotlight perfecting his ideas in cincy with kenny anderson. Didn't just pop out of no where.
You want people who have experience. Pro experience. Holmgren. Shanahan. People like that. They are expensive. Oh well.
Jan 9, 2016 at 5:54 AM
- Niners816
- Veteran
- Posts: 9,990
Originally posted by teylo31:Love BW but its getting old. Its not like his tree is winning SB after SB
3 of the last 5 winners have Walsh tree ties. Pete Carroll (2013) part of the Seifert and Coslett branch. John Harbaugh (2012) part if the Reid branch which is off of the Holmgren part. Mike McCarthy (2010) is off of the Paul Hackett branch.
Since his retirement in Jan of '89, there has been 10 Super Bowls won with Bill Walsh tree ties:
1989
1994
1996
1997
1998
2000
2002
2010
2012
2013
The list above even leaves off a guys like Dungy (2006) and Payton (2009) who have dual tree ties. Dungy has Walsh ties through Dennis Green but is also on the Shottenheimer tree and Payton is a Parcells guy, but had Walsh contacts through Fassell.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jan 9, 2016 at 6:09 AM ]
Jan 9, 2016 at 6:20 AM
- jedediahyork
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,988
Originally posted by Niners816:
3 of the last 5 winners have Walsh tree ties. Pete Carroll (2013) part of the Seifert and Coslett branch. John Harbaugh (2012) part if the Reid branch which is off of the Holmgren part. Mike McCarthy (2010) is off of the Paul Hackett branch.
Since his retirement in Jan of '89, there has been 10 Super Bowls won with Bill Walsh tree ties:
1989
1994
1996
1997
1998
2000
2002
2010
2012
2013
The list above even leaves off a guys like Dungy (2006) and Payton (2009) who have dual tree ties. Dungy has Walsh ties through Dennis Green but is also on the Shottenheimer tree and Payton is a Parcells guy, but had Walsh contacts through Fassell.
And Tomlin in 2008.
Walsh literally changed the face of the NFL. And with the rules the way they are, geared towards the passing game, I see absolutely no reason why we should be looking for anything but a WCO style offense.
[ Edited by jedediahyork on Jan 9, 2016 at 6:21 AM ]
Jan 9, 2016 at 6:42 AM
- fropwns
- #1 Greenlaw Fan
- Posts: 26,468
Though, I would love a return to the WCO. That is not exactly what I meant. I meant you need someone like Walsh. Despite his foolish decisions, I am not so sure we can drive a nail in Chip Kelly's career just yet, either. Nor am I saying he should come here. I am just saying he reminds me of some of those attributes. Also, when you call his offensive a "gadget"-based, I am sure we can find comments that said the same thing about Bill's during his era. Today, what is left of his original tenets, are accepted and applied. But it did not start that way. My hope, our hope, is a coach that epitomizes the skill set (or at least some of it) that Walsh excelled at.
[ Edited by fropwns on Jan 9, 2016 at 6:46 AM ]