Final PFF grades - good and bad, look ahead

Originally posted by lamontb:
Need major upgrades in our defensive front 7. We need some more aggressive players making explosive plays. I like Lynch but how are you rated the 4th best pass rusher with only 6.5 sacks and no forced fumbles or interceptions. We need to turn these pressures into hits on the qb to force some turnovers. Majority of qb's thrive under pressure we need hits and sacks. Niners made very few negative plays on defense. Hodges, Purcell, Dial, Dorsey, and TJE are all back ups. They need starters at ILB, OLB and DE.

I like Ward the best in our secondary with his role as slot CB. Brock and Acker both need to be upgraded. Can't fix everything in one off season though. Guess we can get by with them. We just got guys back here. No real ball hawks or play makers. Nobody that is gonna lock anybody down or make a big play to stop a drive.

On offense it's amazing how we still have no real #1 wr. And no real depth at the position as we speak. Patton and Ellington aren't anything special. Boldin is over the hill and T Smith is a solid #2 WR. Smelter?

Needs are becoming pretty clear, for sure. Well-stated. Agreed.

Originally posted by Goatie:
Ok that is interesting but say for Harris he only had two games with us. Are his other games with the Seahawks included in the score?

With no disrespect to Harris, and he looked really good in a few great runs, but we have only seen him for two games and I would think we should need to see him for a few more before he can be evaluated properly.

I say this only to point out the difficulty with this scoring system as it is compiled only on the amount of snaps they have and it may be biased toward those with fewer snaps.

These are season-long grades for the player. Not team specific as I understand it.

The question on the number of snaps is worthwhile. A player with a limited number of snaps may have played against a very good or very weak team during their limited duty and the grade is therefore somewhat suspect. That is why I noted that on players like Hayne and Carradine.

We only know what we can see and evaluate on that basis. PFF uses the most objective evaluation system that is available to the general public...for a fee. I chose to buy only the overall player grades this year. There is also Premium Stats which were a bit more expensive and most football writers buy that level. I didn't, however, the fact that the guys that get paid to write about this stuff are buying their analysis tells me that this is the best information us neophytes will see.

Originally posted by valrod33:
jesus, that was hard to read, what the hell is the 2nd number for?

It is the ranking among all players in that position.

I will go to school this morning and learn how to incorporate this stuff into a table that is easier to read. I am not a techie...(states the obvious).

Originally posted by joaosoarrs99:
GOOD:
-Gabbert almost got a starter grade depsite not playing some games.
-We might have one of the best backfields next year with Hyde and Harris.
-Boldin was usual. Patton got a good grade depsite playing limited snaps. Can he develop in a number 1 receiver next year?
-Joe Staley was just Joe Staley.
-Andrew Tiller was 6 points shy from receiving an pro bowl grade depsite playing few games.
-Brock and Johnson are solid. Ward has improved(breakout candidate to next year).
-Reid had a good second half of this season.
-If we can get a guy(Wolfe? Buckner? Wilkerson?) to pair with Williams and Armstead we may have one of the best DL in all football. Carradine and Dial were good.
-Lynch is great.

BAD
-Miller got a pretty average grade. I was expecting at least a top-10 grade.
-Smith receiving a backup grade is bad. When you pay what we paid him you expect at least a starter grade.
-McDonald is really bad.
-Boone is better at the right side. Trying him as LG was a failure.
-Bowman can't cover
-Lemonier is not bad. He is very bad.

UGLY
-How did Kilgore got this bad? Was he thrown under fire early?
-Johnson should have got more starts than Acker.
-Bethea and Tartt(he is coming off college division II so he should have sitted this year) sucks in coverage.
-Hodges was terrible(I hope he just didn't got the scheme).
-Brooks is underplaying his contract too damn much.

patton is nothing but a liability. ive never seen a player cause so many scuffles an flags in the last 2 years, he needs to be cut. the only thing he contributes is penalties an immaturity, we dont need him we have ellington who even though doesnt play much better he isnt a problem. pattons good for about 1 sweep play every 8 games let him go start fights every week on another roster.

Originally posted by stefano89:
patton is nothing but a liability. ive never seen a player cause so many scuffles an flags in the last 2 years, he needs to be cut. the only thing he contributes is penalties an immaturity, we dont need him we have ellington who even though doesnt play much better he isnt a problem. pattons good for about 1 sweep play every 8 games let him go start fights every week on another roster.

I think that was true of his first year in the league but I actually think he is making the effort to get better in that regard. There were several times this season when I saw him pulling guys away who were about to get into it with somebody from the other side. His penalties are still a problem as he negated a couple of really good plays to himself by getting a false start. I think he really wants to be a good player and a contributor and I think he could be with a bit more discipline and an OC who knew how to incorporate him into the scheme more. That being said he and Ellington seem to be pretty much the same type of player so I suspect that one or the other is going to be on the outside looking in when Smelter returns and White gets another off season under his belt

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Thanks for this..

It looks like DE, OLB, OG and WR are our big needs that need to be filled. With MLB and S on the list too delending on how the new coach grades Hodges and Tartt/Bethea.


At TE, I would like to re-sign Celek and let McDonald keep developing. He has showed flashes this year. Bell looks likena keeper and might be our best blocker. I like that group of 3. Keep Celek. McDonald is a puzzle. He looks like he could be Kelce-level but for his hands. Bell has promise.

Ian Williams needs to be kept. If we cant agree on a long term deal he needs to be tagged. We cannot let him go. Full agreement. Played better than some guys going to the popularity-contest bowl AKA Pro Bowl.

I like our group of corners. With a better pass rush these guys would be lockdown. Yep, these guys got a bad rap because of the loss of pass rush. see next

OLB might be our biggest need IMO. The Oklahoma State pass rusher Emmanuel Ogbah might be hard to pass on at 7. He is big (6'4, 275), productive (10.5 sacks as s sophomore, 13 as a junior and set a school record for pressures this year) and relentless. He fills the biggest need. And unless Denver lets Miller test the market there aren't any pass rushers aside from Tamba Hali available. Agree on biggest need. Ogbah looks good. Would you trade up to get him? Denver won't be able to sign everybody but I doubt they let Miller go. Hali is past his prime.

I hope NY doesn't tag Muhammed Wilkerson. I would give him Suh money. 12.5 sacks as a 3-4 DE is insane. He is a difference maker. Wilkerson, Armstead, Ogbah and Lynch would create absolute havok. Jets are loaded on the front line and might choose to spend their money elsewhere. I agree he will get paid big. If he proves to be too expensive, my prayer would be that DeForest Buckner drops to #7. I only saw him against TCU but he was a force against a good OL. Cool to reunite him with Armstead.

MLB. Not sure what to do. I think Jerell Freeman would be a nice add but I think we need a MLB who excels in coverage. Im not sure how Freeman rates there. I like what Hodges showed but he looks like a two down run thumper. Maybe Tartt plays more snaps as a nickle LBer next year. My FA target would be Danny Trevathan - as good in coverage as in run defense, Pro Bowl quality in both.

OG. I dont want a rookie starting. Throw the bank at Keleche Osemele. He is a stud. I think Kilgore will be fine ar OC. I really like what I saw from Tiller at OG. Brown can be a servicable backup maybe even a quality starter with more experience. We need Anthony Davis back. Agree on Osemele although I doubt Balti will let him go. I would make a run at Alex Mack.

Gabbert is fine starting for now. Draft or aquire a young guy to groom. Get him a young WR in the draft. Give Patton more snaps in the slot. Use Torrey how he should be used, we have a nice group of TE's and with an upgraded O-line our stable of backs should be able to pound the ball. I think with some tweeks our offense can be productive. So hard for me to evaluate Gabbert. I believe so much of it was poor play design and selection. A stud WR is a must. Maybe Smelter will be the guy. A good OC is a must and that may solve other problems.

If York wants to win like he says he will make some impact signings. I believe he promised he would allow Baalke to do that.

Cut Brooks and trade Kaepernick. Brooks yes. CK will be up to new coach although I don't think Kaepernick really wants to be here anymore.

Sign Muhammed Wilkerson and Keleche Osemele.

Draft Emmanuel Ogbah and receiver Tyler Boyd out of Pittsburg to replace Boldin.

Tag/re-sign Ian Williams and we are much improved right off the bat.

Nice post. I will add my responses alongside yours.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Need major upgrades in our defensive front 7. We need some more aggressive players making explosive plays. I like Lynch but how are you rated the 4th best pass rusher with only 6.5 sacks and no forced fumbles or interceptions. We need to turn these pressures into hits on the qb to force some turnovers. Majority of qb's thrive under pressure we need hits and sacks. Niners made very few negative plays on defense. Hodges, Purcell, Dial, Dorsey, and TJE are all back ups. They need starters at ILB, OLB and DE.

They include pressures and hurries in the grade. I believe they also weigh the number of times two blockers are directed to him. Not positive on that though.

All of that mitigates for a stud pass rusher on the other side so opponents cannot keep stacking a TE and/or RB on his side.

Good defense starts with a pass rush, especially in this passing league. All the DBs will look better with some rush.

All the talent on the roster adds up to nothing without a good QB and coaching staff.

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Special teams return average doesn't translate to PFF scores. Hayne rated at -1.5 in ST due to technical fumbles.

I understand that. Was more meaning potential for next year. A solid rb backup with st play

Originally posted by znk916:
All the talent on the roster adds up to nothing without a good QB and coaching staff.

...and those two are more interrelated than any other position on the team.

That is why evaluating Gabbert objectively is so hard. We have all sat in front of our TV or at Levis and screamed about conservative, unimaginative play calling. That is not only on Chryst, but also reflects on Gabbert.

I don't really care who wins the starting job. My hope when Gabbert first started playing, was that he would turn out to be the guy that would allow us to use our #1 pick on some position other than QB. The last thing I wanted was to have to toss Kaepernick to the curb and grab one of these college QBs. To me, that is a double waste of draft picks. As badly as we need a QB, the need for a pass rusher is just as great. Now it looks like we may be forced to grab a QB from a pack that looks good but has no assurance of franchise-level quality. Therefore, I could be talked into keeping Kaepernick and Gabbert and using the #1 pick for an Aldon Smith replacement. Emmanuel Ogbah would be nice!

Originally posted by dj43:
Therefore, I could be talked into keeping Kaepernick and Gabbert and using the #1 pick for an Aldon Smith replacement. Emmanuel Ogbah would be nice!

The more I get into this, this is the route I think we're going...with the HC taking HIS QB in the second.

Why? Not much difference in skill level among the QB's in this draft class and we have a bridge-QB and the new HC knows he's got to develop him over time anyhow.

Thanks for this!

Sucks to see Tartt struggle that bad I was really unimpressed by him.

We have an absolute stud in Armstead though

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:

Do you think coaches look at these numbers?

IIRC, Niners99 (?) has sighted many times how HC's and GM's use this tool for evaluations and other means. As a "tool" and not the end-all, be-all.

As you can see, it does provide some perspective mostly on how your players are performing against peers under the same evaluation tool.

I was listening to a podcast, forget which one, but it had someone who worked for PFF on and he said that 30 out of 32 teams pay PFF for their services and rankings. He said he's not allowed to say what 2 teams don't.

The minus quotient for Vance's epic horrible plays vs CIN was not large enough. I'm never going to be able to warm up to this guy

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
Do you think coaches look at these numbers?

They damn sure better be. At the very least, PFF absolutely crushes their DL ratings. They were on Justin Smith hype train years before the national media. JJ Watt, same thing, they saw him coming a year before everyone else. They had Aaron Donald as a Watt-level player coming out of college and he has lived up to every expectation.

Every time I see PFF grades, I instantly think of the year Michael Bennett was available. PFF loved what he did in TB lining up all over the place, I think they had him as the top free agent DL that year. He would've been absolutely ideal for us esp since we were looking for Cowboy's replacement (we ended up drafting Tank Carradine). Instead Seattle got him for peanuts and it put their defense over the top. Him and Avril in the same offseason (both for cheap) took them from perennial top 5 defense to all time status.