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Final PFF grades - good and bad, look ahead
Jan 5, 2016 at 12:20 AM
- valrod33
- Hall of Small
- Posts: 137,970
jesus, that was hard to read, what the hell is the 2nd number for?
Jan 5, 2016 at 12:44 AM
- Marty
- Veteran
- Posts: 871
Originally posted by valrod33:
jesus, that was hard to read, what the hell is the 2nd number for?
The 2nd number is ranking among players at the same position across the league
Jan 5, 2016 at 12:49 AM
- JerrySandwich
- UptightVegemite
- Posts: 13,388
Did Hayne do go or nah,dafuq dis mean.
Jan 5, 2016 at 12:57 AM
- Marty
- Veteran
- Posts: 871
Originally posted by BarrySandwich:
Did Hayne do go or nah,dafuq dis mean.
Hayne's ranking of 47 says his effectiveness at the RB position is rated about middle of the pack in the league as RB2. Fact that he's kind of used as a RB4 is therefore stupid if you go by PFF's assessment.
Jan 5, 2016 at 2:53 AM
- theauviper
- Veteran
- Posts: 386
Originally posted by BarrySandwich:
Did Hayne do go or nah,dafuq dis mean.
Decent without being spectacular, was basically learning on the job and shows great potential - which for a guy who had never played a game before this season is bloody amazing.
His return stats are also extremely good - Ave of 9.5 would have put him top 10 in the league, the same as tyler lockett
Jan 5, 2016 at 4:16 AM
- KeepRabbitsOut
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,085
Originally posted by theauviper:Originally posted by BarrySandwich:Did Hayne do go or nah,dafuq dis mean.
Decent without being spectacular, was basically learning on the job and shows great potential - which for a guy who had never played a game before this season is bloody amazing.
His return stats are also extremely good - Ave of 9.5 would have put him top 10 in the league, the same as tyler lockett
Special teams return average doesn't translate to PFF scores. Hayne rated at -1.5 in ST due to technical fumbles.
Jan 5, 2016 at 4:43 AM
- Goatie
- Veteran
- Posts: 17,752
Ok that is interesting but say for Harris he only had two games with us. Are his other games with the Seahawks included in the score?
With no disrespect to Harris, and he looked really good in a few great runs, but we have only seen him for two games and I would think we should need to see him for a few more before he can be evaluated properly.
I say this only to point out the difficulty with this scoring system as it is compiled only on the amount of snaps they have and it may be biased toward those with fewer snaps.
With no disrespect to Harris, and he looked really good in a few great runs, but we have only seen him for two games and I would think we should need to see him for a few more before he can be evaluated properly.
I say this only to point out the difficulty with this scoring system as it is compiled only on the amount of snaps they have and it may be biased toward those with fewer snaps.
Jan 5, 2016 at 4:46 AM
- Marty
- Veteran
- Posts: 871
Originally posted by Goatie:
Ok that is interesting but say for Harris he only had two games with us. Are his other games with the Seahawks included in the score?
With no disrespect to Harris, and he looked really good in a few great runs, but we have only seen him for two games and I would think we should need to see him for a few more before he can be evaluated properly.
I say this only to point out the difficulty with this scoring system as it is compiled only on the amount of snaps they have and it may be biased toward those with fewer snaps.
Nah, fewer chances to get settled is a disadvantage. But everyone knows to take those with a smaller sample size with a grain of salt anyway.
Jan 5, 2016 at 5:07 AM
- Goatie
- Veteran
- Posts: 17,752
Originally posted by Marty:
Nah, fewer chances to get settled is a disadvantage. But everyone knows to take those with a smaller sample size with a grain of salt anyway.
Fair call
Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 AM
- SteveYoung
- Member
- Posts: 3,697
Thanks for this..
It looks like DE, OLB, OG and WR are our big needs that need to be filled. With MLB and S on the list too delending on how the new coach grades Hodges and Tartt/Bethea.
At TE, I would like to re-sign Celek and let McDonald keep developing. He has showed flashes this year. Bell looks likena keeper and might be our best blocker. I like that group of 3.
Ian Williams needs to be kept. If we cant agree on a long term deal he needs to be tagged. We cannot let him go.
I like our group of corners. With a better pass rush these guys would be lockdown.
OLB might be our biggest need IMO. The Oklahoma State pass rusher Emmanuel Ogbah might be hard to pass on at 7. He is big (6'4, 275), productive (10.5 sacks as s sophomore, 13 as a junior and set a school record for pressures this year) and relentless. He fills the biggest need. And unless Denver lets Miller test the market there aren't any pass rushers aside from Tamba Hali available.
I hope NY doesn't tag Muhammed Wilkerson. I would give him Suh money. 12.5 sacks as a 3-4 DE is insane. He is a difference maker. Wilkerson, Armstead, Ogbah and Lynch would create absolute havok.
MLB. Not sure what to do. I think Jerell Freeman would be a nice add but I think we need a MLB who excels in coverage. Im not sure how Freeman rates there. I like what Hodges showed but he looks like a two down run thumper. Maybe Tartt plays more snaps as a nickle LBer next year.
OG. I dont want a rookie starting. Throw the bank at Keleche Osemele. He is a stud. I think Kilgore will be fine ar OC. I really like what I saw from Tiller at OG. Brown can be a servicable backup maybe even a quality starter with more experience. We need Anthony Davis back.
Gabbert is fine starting for now. Draft or aquire a young guy to groom. Get him a young WR in the draft. Give Patton more snaps in the slot. Use Torrey how he should be used, we have a nice group of TE's and with an upgraded O-line our stable of backs should be able to pound the ball. I think with some tweeks our offense can be productive.
If York wants to win like he says he will make some impact signings.
Cut Brooks and trade Kaepernick.
Sign Muhammed Wilkerson and Keleche Osemele.
Draft Emmanuel Ogbah and receiver Tyler Boyd out of Pittsburg to replace Boldin.
Tag/re-sign Ian Williams and we are much improved right off the bat.
It looks like DE, OLB, OG and WR are our big needs that need to be filled. With MLB and S on the list too delending on how the new coach grades Hodges and Tartt/Bethea.
At TE, I would like to re-sign Celek and let McDonald keep developing. He has showed flashes this year. Bell looks likena keeper and might be our best blocker. I like that group of 3.
Ian Williams needs to be kept. If we cant agree on a long term deal he needs to be tagged. We cannot let him go.
I like our group of corners. With a better pass rush these guys would be lockdown.
OLB might be our biggest need IMO. The Oklahoma State pass rusher Emmanuel Ogbah might be hard to pass on at 7. He is big (6'4, 275), productive (10.5 sacks as s sophomore, 13 as a junior and set a school record for pressures this year) and relentless. He fills the biggest need. And unless Denver lets Miller test the market there aren't any pass rushers aside from Tamba Hali available.
I hope NY doesn't tag Muhammed Wilkerson. I would give him Suh money. 12.5 sacks as a 3-4 DE is insane. He is a difference maker. Wilkerson, Armstead, Ogbah and Lynch would create absolute havok.
MLB. Not sure what to do. I think Jerell Freeman would be a nice add but I think we need a MLB who excels in coverage. Im not sure how Freeman rates there. I like what Hodges showed but he looks like a two down run thumper. Maybe Tartt plays more snaps as a nickle LBer next year.
OG. I dont want a rookie starting. Throw the bank at Keleche Osemele. He is a stud. I think Kilgore will be fine ar OC. I really like what I saw from Tiller at OG. Brown can be a servicable backup maybe even a quality starter with more experience. We need Anthony Davis back.
Gabbert is fine starting for now. Draft or aquire a young guy to groom. Get him a young WR in the draft. Give Patton more snaps in the slot. Use Torrey how he should be used, we have a nice group of TE's and with an upgraded O-line our stable of backs should be able to pound the ball. I think with some tweeks our offense can be productive.
If York wants to win like he says he will make some impact signings.
Cut Brooks and trade Kaepernick.
Sign Muhammed Wilkerson and Keleche Osemele.
Draft Emmanuel Ogbah and receiver Tyler Boyd out of Pittsburg to replace Boldin.
Tag/re-sign Ian Williams and we are much improved right off the bat.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Jan 5, 2016 at 6:03 AM ]
Jan 5, 2016 at 7:24 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,323
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NCommand:
About right. 25-30+ legit starters compared to their peers. That's a great foundation to build from when the core is barely only a season's worth (1.3) into their careers.
Even the bad/ugly is somewhat deceptive.
BAD
Miller - We all know Miller is probably the best FB in the game who's never used.
Smith - T's worth to this offense is not measured in stats per se.
McDonald - Best blocking TE especially out in space and showing flashes of catching. Maybe next year he puts it all together?
Boone - Kind of an average G to me and not consistent. Tiller next to Staley is opening up massive holes that I didn't see as much with Boone.
Bowman - pro bowler coming into form but struggling in coverage in Mangini's scheme.
Lemonier - blows
UGLY
Kilgore - Still a ways to go to get 100% into football shape.
Johnson - Should have got more starts than Acker.
Bethea and Tartt - Since both grade out the same, speaks to scheme struggles and learning on the fly but a high ceiling for Tartt. Bethea was a pro bowler.
Hodges - #1 or 2 in team tackles since starting. Like Bowman, brutal scheme to play in.
Brooks - leading the team in sacks but on his way out.
Great work dj!
You're right. When one sets aside all the emotions and look at the way the pros grade players, there is a good core here.
The major holes are obvious. In this league built for parity, 2 or 3 good FA signings along with 2 or 3 rookie starters and this team when healthy can compete with 2/3 of the rest of the league, or better.
And the best part is, McClusky is going to come in and provide a much more "objective" analysis of the roster for us since this grading analysis in "subjective" to him. That should really help us ID our team needs going forward. I'm looking forward to that...
Jan 5, 2016 at 7:28 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,323
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Thanks for this..
It looks like DE, OLB, OG and WR are our big needs that need to be filled. With MLB and S on the list too delending on how the new coach grades Hodges and Tartt/Bethea.
At TE, I would like to re-sign Celek and let McDonald keep developing. He has showed flashes this year. Bell looks likena keeper and might be our best blocker. I like that group of 3.
Ian Williams needs to be kept. If we cant agree on a long term deal he needs to be tagged. We cannot let him go.
I like our group of corners. With a better pass rush these guys would be lockdown.
OLB might be our biggest need IMO. The Oklahoma State pass rusher Emmanuel Ogbah might be hard to pass on at 7. He is big (6'4, 275), productive (10.5 sacks as s sophomore, 13 as a junior and set a school record for pressures this year) and relentless. He fills the biggest need. And unless Denver lets Miller test the market there aren't any pass rushers aside from Tamba Hali available.
I hope NY doesn't tag Muhammed Wilkerson. I would give him Suh money. 12.5 sacks as a 3-4 DE is insane. He is a difference maker. Wilkerson, Armstead, Ogbah and Lynch would create absolute havok.
MLB. Not sure what to do. I think Jerell Freeman would be a nice add but I think we need a MLB who excels in coverage. Im not sure how Freeman rates there. I like what Hodges showed but he looks like a two down run thumper. Maybe Tartt plays more snaps as a nickle LBer next year.
OG. I dont want a rookie starting. Throw the bank at Keleche Osemele. He is a stud. I think Kilgore will be fine ar OC. I really like what I saw from Tiller at OG. Brown can be a servicable backup maybe even a quality starter with more experience. We need Anthony Davis back.
Gabbert is fine starting for now. Draft or aquire a young guy to groom. Get him a young WR in the draft. Give Patton more snaps in the slot. Use Torrey how he should be used, we have a nice group of TE's and with an upgraded O-line our stable of backs should be able to pound the ball. I think with some tweeks our offense can be productive.
If York wants to win like he says he will make some impact signings.
Cut Brooks and trade Kaepernick.
Sign Muhammed Wilkerson and Keleche Osemele.
Draft Emmanuel Ogbah and receiver Tyler Boyd out of Pittsburg to replace Boldin.
Tag/re-sign Ian Williams and we are much improved right off the bat.
Absolutely terrific post!
Jan 5, 2016 at 7:57 AM
- KyleShanahan
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,779
Do you think coaches look at these numbers?
Jan 5, 2016 at 8:01 AM
- NCommand
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 123,323
Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
Do you think coaches look at these numbers?
IIRC, Niners99 (?) has sighted many times how HC's and GM's use this tool for evaluations and other means. As a "tool" and not the end-all, be-all.
As you can see, it does provide some perspective mostly on how your players are performing against peers under the same evaluation tool.
Jan 5, 2016 at 8:40 AM
- lamontb
- Veteran
- Posts: 30,015
Need major upgrades in our defensive front 7. We need some more aggressive players making explosive plays. I like Lynch but how are you rated the 4th best pass rusher with only 6.5 sacks and no forced fumbles or interceptions. We need to turn these pressures into hits on the qb to force some turnovers. Majority of qb's thrive under pressure we need hits and sacks. Niners made very few negative plays on defense. Hodges, Purcell, Dial, Dorsey, and TJE are all back ups. They need starters at ILB, OLB and DE.
I like Ward the best in our secondary with his role as slot CB. Brock and Acker both need to be upgraded. Can't fix everything in one off season though. Guess we can get by with them. We just got guys back here. No real ball hawks or play makers. Nobody that is gonna lock anybody down or make a big play to stop a drive.
On offense it's amazing how we still have no real #1 wr. And no real depth at the position as we speak. Patton and Ellington aren't anything special. Boldin is over the hill and T Smith is a solid #2 WR. Smelter?
I like Ward the best in our secondary with his role as slot CB. Brock and Acker both need to be upgraded. Can't fix everything in one off season though. Guess we can get by with them. We just got guys back here. No real ball hawks or play makers. Nobody that is gonna lock anybody down or make a big play to stop a drive.
On offense it's amazing how we still have no real #1 wr. And no real depth at the position as we speak. Patton and Ellington aren't anything special. Boldin is over the hill and T Smith is a solid #2 WR. Smelter?