Identifying the "Core Players" Defensive Edition

I love our young defenders and am happy with Bow, Williams and Dorsey as our veteran presence....what we need is pass rush, pass rush, pass rush. Draft as many LBs as we can afford to after attempting to fix the Oline and look for free agents besides. If we had any pass rush this D will sky rocket up the rankings,

Originally posted by D-Money:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This is a pretty fair assessment overall. I disagree with the assessment of Tank Carradine and Ahmad Brooks, as I think the only thing that Tank provides, he will now be in a position to do. The man has flashed pass rush ability in limited playing time and by getting down to 260 to 275 pounds, we should see the borderline 1st round talent with his pass rushing ability at outside linebacker. I think if he gets regular snaps, like Aldon Smith did in 2011, he can be a force in 2016. Ahmad Brooks is still a "good" player and though I agree he doesn't factor into our future longterm, mostly because of salary, his replacement isn't on the roster yet. My prediction of success for Tank Carradine's conversion to OLB is all speculation. We could also bring in a free agent or draft a guy (Carl Nassib is my favorite for this role), but it's another project. I'd like Ahmad Brooks back in 2016 as a placeholder for a season until either a rookie, Eli Harold, or Tank Carradine demonstrate they are ready for an expanded role in our defense as a starter. I think with a quality DL in front of him, Brooks can be a force as a playmaker again for that final season.

I honestly think the defense could take a leap to being a top 10 defense again much quicker than the offense could, mainly because they have more pieces in place. I also think if we play free agency and the draft right, we can add those those players to help us make the leap in one off season. There will be 3-4 DEs available that we can take a run at. Having Quinton Dial as a rotational player, Glen Dorsey backing up at NT, and bringing back Ian Williams would reflect the newfound strength of the DL. Having an extra pass rusher opposite of Aaron Lynch as you mentioned would not only improve the pass rush, but also help our secondary because we have some safeties that actually look to make a play on the ball. If Kenneth Acker gets on the same page, look out.

Right on Lifelong:
I just feel Carradine is a natural 4-3 end. He had the knee injury, then he seemed to get too heavy- muscle wise, and just has not got on the field. I mean we are going on year 4 with this guy in 2016. I'm not against bringing him back and could hope he would be a great pass rushing olb, but at a certain point a player has to perform and he just hasn't done that yet.
Brooks is just a ticking timebomb if you ask me, production wise he has been steady but not spectacular. However, his constant run in with the coaches, personal fouls, and off field incidents makes me want to let him go. I just think he can be replaced production wise and a better leader can be brought in to man that position.
Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of dollars in cap space this year and the FA market is the weakest I've seen in years. I mean if Wilkerson or V. Miller are not franchised, then you pour money on one to get them in here, but besides that I think our roster is pretty even with any FA that could be brought in, not much in terms of better production/potential. The draft is where we have to build our D back up.

He is a natural 4-3 end, but I'd really like to go back and look at his combine numbers to get an idea of his all around athletic ability. That should give us a better idea to give us an idea if he can stand up and play OLB. But I think his pass rush ability has flashed, he just hasn't played much because he was given the responsibilities of a 3-4 defensive end. Because he sucked at being a 3-4 defensive end, he wasn't going to get much playing time. It doesn't make him a bad player. It just means he was misused.

Eli Harold has shown a little something, but honestly I'd rather go into 2016 with a guy that we know can play OLB. I think a group of Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine, and another draft pick gives us a potentially nice group going forward. Hopefully by midseason one of the younger guys will be prepared to push Brooks out of the starting lineup. Right now, we don't have such a player. Any free agent suggestions that could replace him for cheaper?

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by D-Money:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

This is a pretty fair assessment overall. I disagree with the assessment of Tank Carradine and Ahmad Brooks, as I think the only thing that Tank provides, he will now be in a position to do. The man has flashed pass rush ability in limited playing time and by getting down to 260 to 275 pounds, we should see the borderline 1st round talent with his pass rushing ability at outside linebacker. I think if he gets regular snaps, like Aldon Smith did in 2011, he can be a force in 2016. Ahmad Brooks is still a "good" player and though I agree he doesn't factor into our future longterm, mostly because of salary, his replacement isn't on the roster yet. My prediction of success for Tank Carradine's conversion to OLB is all speculation. We could also bring in a free agent or draft a guy (Carl Nassib is my favorite for this role), but it's another project. I'd like Ahmad Brooks back in 2016 as a placeholder for a season until either a rookie, Eli Harold, or Tank Carradine demonstrate they are ready for an expanded role in our defense as a starter. I think with a quality DL in front of him, Brooks can be a force as a playmaker again for that final season.

I honestly think the defense could take a leap to being a top 10 defense again much quicker than the offense could, mainly because they have more pieces in place. I also think if we play free agency and the draft right, we can add those those players to help us make the leap in one off season. There will be 3-4 DEs available that we can take a run at. Having Quinton Dial as a rotational player, Glen Dorsey backing up at NT, and bringing back Ian Williams would reflect the newfound strength of the DL. Having an extra pass rusher opposite of Aaron Lynch as you mentioned would not only improve the pass rush, but also help our secondary because we have some safeties that actually look to make a play on the ball. If Kenneth Acker gets on the same page, look out.

Right on Lifelong:
I just feel Carradine is a natural 4-3 end. He had the knee injury, then he seemed to get too heavy- muscle wise, and just has not got on the field. I mean we are going on year 4 with this guy in 2016. I'm not against bringing him back and could hope he would be a great pass rushing olb, but at a certain point a player has to perform and he just hasn't done that yet.
Brooks is just a ticking timebomb if you ask me, production wise he has been steady but not spectacular. However, his constant run in with the coaches, personal fouls, and off field incidents makes me want to let him go. I just think he can be replaced production wise and a better leader can be brought in to man that position.
Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of dollars in cap space this year and the FA market is the weakest I've seen in years. I mean if Wilkerson or V. Miller are not franchised, then you pour money on one to get them in here, but besides that I think our roster is pretty even with any FA that could be brought in, not much in terms of better production/potential. The draft is where we have to build our D back up.

He is a natural 4-3 end, but I'd really like to go back and look at his combine numbers to get an idea of his all around athletic ability. That should give us a better idea to give us an idea if he can stand up and play OLB. But I think his pass rush ability has flashed, he just hasn't played much because he was given the responsibilities of a 3-4 defensive end. Because he sucked at being a 3-4 defensive end, he wasn't going to get much playing time. It doesn't make him a bad player. It just means he was misused.

Eli Harold has shown a little something, but honestly I'd rather go into 2016 with a guy that we know can play OLB. I think a group of Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine, and another draft pick gives us a potentially nice group going forward. Hopefully by midseason one of the younger guys will be prepared to push Brooks out of the starting lineup. Right now, we don't have such a player. Any free agent suggestions that could replace him for cheaper?

Cheaper and better? No..you have o pick one or the other.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

He is a natural 4-3 end, but I'd really like to go back and look at his combine numbers to get an idea of his all around athletic ability. That should give us a better idea to give us an idea if he can stand up and play OLB. But I think his pass rush ability has flashed, he just hasn't played much because he was given the responsibilities of a 3-4 defensive end. Because he sucked at being a 3-4 defensive end, he wasn't going to get much playing time. It doesn't make him a bad player. It just means he was misused.

Eli Harold has shown a little something, but honestly I'd rather go into 2016 with a guy that we know can play OLB. I think a group of Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine, and another draft pick gives us a potentially nice group going forward. Hopefully by midseason one of the younger guys will be prepared to push Brooks out of the starting lineup. Right now, we don't have such a player. Any free agent suggestions that could replace him for cheaper?

I understand your thinking with Tank and can't disagree with him being misused but he is still a mystery and his production can be replaced.
Brooks is good, really good, but I feel it's best if we let him go as I don't think he'll hang in there with a young team another year and could honestly be a distraction to some of them. I think it would best to just let him go. His replacement will probably be a platoon of younger players next year.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by D-Money:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This is a pretty fair assessment overall. I disagree with the assessment of Tank Carradine and Ahmad Brooks, as I think the only thing that Tank provides, he will now be in a position to do. The man has flashed pass rush ability in limited playing time and by getting down to 260 to 275 pounds, we should see the borderline 1st round talent with his pass rushing ability at outside linebacker. I think if he gets regular snaps, like Aldon Smith did in 2011, he can be a force in 2016. Ahmad Brooks is still a "good" player and though I agree he doesn't factor into our future longterm, mostly because of salary, his replacement isn't on the roster yet. My prediction of success for Tank Carradine's conversion to OLB is all speculation. We could also bring in a free agent or draft a guy (Carl Nassib is my favorite for this role), but it's another project. I'd like Ahmad Brooks back in 2016 as a placeholder for a season until either a rookie, Eli Harold, or Tank Carradine demonstrate they are ready for an expanded role in our defense as a starter. I think with a quality DL in front of him, Brooks can be a force as a playmaker again for that final season.

I honestly think the defense could take a leap to being a top 10 defense again much quicker than the offense could, mainly because they have more pieces in place. I also think if we play free agency and the draft right, we can add those those players to help us make the leap in one off season. There will be 3-4 DEs available that we can take a run at. Having Quinton Dial as a rotational player, Glen Dorsey backing up at NT, and bringing back Ian Williams would reflect the newfound strength of the DL. Having an extra pass rusher opposite of Aaron Lynch as you mentioned would not only improve the pass rush, but also help our secondary because we have some safeties that actually look to make a play on the ball. If Kenneth Acker gets on the same page, look out.

Right on Lifelong:
I just feel Carradine is a natural 4-3 end. He had the knee injury, then he seemed to get too heavy- muscle wise, and just has not got on the field. I mean we are going on year 4 with this guy in 2016. I'm not against bringing him back and could hope he would be a great pass rushing olb, but at a certain point a player has to perform and he just hasn't done that yet.
Brooks is just a ticking timebomb if you ask me, production wise he has been steady but not spectacular. However, his constant run in with the coaches, personal fouls, and off field incidents makes me want to let him go. I just think he can be replaced production wise and a better leader can be brought in to man that position.
Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of dollars in cap space this year and the FA market is the weakest I've seen in years. I mean if Wilkerson or V. Miller are not franchised, then you pour money on one to get them in here, but besides that I think our roster is pretty even with any FA that could be brought in, not much in terms of better production/potential. The draft is where we have to build our D back up.

He is a natural 4-3 end, but I'd really like to go back and look at his combine numbers to get an idea of his all around athletic ability. That should give us a better idea to give us an idea if he can stand up and play OLB. But I think his pass rush ability has flashed, he just hasn't played much because he was given the responsibilities of a 3-4 defensive end. Because he sucked at being a 3-4 defensive end, he wasn't going to get much playing time. It doesn't make him a bad player. It just means he was misused.

Eli Harold has shown a little something, but honestly I'd rather go into 2016 with a guy that we know can play OLB. I think a group of Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine, and another draft pick gives us a potentially nice group going forward. Hopefully by midseason one of the younger guys will be prepared to push Brooks out of the starting lineup. Right now, we don't have such a player. Any free agent suggestions that could replace him for cheaper?

Cheaper and better? No..you have o pick one or the other.

Ahmad Brooks isn't putting up numbers that would make his replacement that expensive. I believe his cap figure is supposed to be 9 million or something crazy next season. It is possible to get cheaper and better in this case.

Yeah it is possible, but the FA OLBs may not be up to par. Brooks is probably better than most of them. So there could be a slight production dip. The flipside of that is a younger growing and learning on the job and gaining the experience necessary to get even better the year after. I know it's wishful thinking but man it would be nice to land V.Miller.

Here you go...

If they can find a quality pass rusher opposite Lynch, that would instantly improve our secondary. Lets go Baalke !!!

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

If they can find a quality pass rusher opposite Lynch, that would instantly improve our secondary. Lets go Baalke !!!

Hopefully one is already on the team in Carradine and/or Harold.

Draft guys...is there an Aldon Smith in this draft? Long arms, strength, football instincts, etc.

Or should we go FA? Who's available?

I may be in the minority here, but I don't love our young players on offense or defense. People have been flaunting average age as a sign that this team has a lot of potential, but the only young guys I'm excited with are Lynch, Armstead, Reid, and Hyde. I just think we've missed on a lot of draft picks recently including Tank and Ward.

I agree completely with your list of core offensive players (Staley, Hyde, Smith), but the only core players on defense in my opinion are Armstead, Lynch, Bowman, and Reid and it's a bit of a stretch calling Reid a core player given his concussion history.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25209914/ers-safety-eric-reid-once-considered-retirement-due-to-concussions

It's hard for me to list someone like Dial as a core player when this defense would be way better if we replaced him with a high draft pick or free agent (Wilkerson, Wolfe, etc.). Some of those guys may never even be average NFL starters and could easily be replaced.

A core player for the Yorks is anyone under a rookie contract.

Bump.....


Almost a year latter. Who are our core defensive players now?

My take.... based on age, talent, and on-field contributions:

Navorro Bowman
Jimmy Ward
DeForest Buckner
Eric Reid
Arik Armstead
Aaron Lynch
Quinton Dial
Rashard Robinson

Originally posted by blm7754:
Bump.....


Almost a year latter. Who are our core defensive players now?

My take.... based on age, talent, and on-field contributions:

Navorro Bowman
Jimmy Ward
DeForest Buckner
Eric Reid
Arik Armstead
Aaron Lynch
Quinton Dial
Rashard Robinson

Just my opinion but Lynch and Reid are just starters and this point and shouldn't be seen as "cores" to build around, Armstead and Dial are no better than backups. Bowman and Buckner are the only two potential standouts on this Defense right now with Wards lack of turnovers and Robinson being so unproven. While also unproven the pursuit Blair was giving yesterday sure popped out as something to build on too.

A defense doesn't need to be full of studs rather, a sum of all parts that elevate each other's play. That said, it starts with one and two dynamic players who get to play fast and aggressive. In the 3-4, one of those LB needs to create hell. It was Patrick Willis who gave away seamlessly to Bowman (Spikes can be credited here too) and we are searching for who is next. They aren't on this team at ILB and we were hoping Lynch was going to be our OLB. It's what has to be next for this defense. We have the draft pick to find him.

This player jumps off the screen and is as close to a sure thing as there is in the draft. K Mack and V Miller being top 3 players, this is what we are looking for. Even Vic Beasley looks to be rounding into the mold for ATL and his 13 sacks have a lot to do with their viability. Everyone gets better when this one piece is found, more so than any one defensive player. I like the thought of Lynch seeing those singles again as well.

I like the prospects of Ward or Robinson becoming very special with acquiring an elite pass rush as well.

quote=blm7754]Bump.....


Almost a year latter. Who are our core defensive players now?

My take.... based on age, talent, and on-field contributions:

Navorro Bowman
Jimmy Ward
DeForest Buckner
Eric Reid
Arik Armstead
Aaron Lynch
Quinton Dial
Rashard Robinson

Bowman
....
......
.........
........
oh yea,
bowman