Now if only we had an offense actually tailored to what our mobile QB (we used to but we only went to NFC Championship games) maybe he wouldn't be on his way out. But yeah let's draft a QB in the 1st in a weak QB draft class.
OR
Kaepernick was a big reason we went to all those Title games!!!
OR
We Just need to build our offensive line first THEN we can draft a QB, But in the meantime we can Evaluate some Veterans like Kap/Gabbert while upgrading our O-line.
No quarterback can consistently win with a bad defense
No, No, AND NO I am going to talk about each of the above..... The Above Bolded, Underlined sentence's has really aggravated me over these passed few months, and to be quite frank over the passed year or so while watching 2014 (and i received alot of heat for my disagreements), The year I knew it was all over. Ive decided I want to make a thread to clearly point out my opinion as well as FACTS as to why the above IS NOT true, when talking about Kaepernick and any other Quarterback for that matter.
What was our record in 2011, The season where Harbaugh took over? What did we finish? Oh 13-3 and a NFC championship Appearance.. (WITHOUT Kapernick)
COOL SUNDAY, But what about the following years? Thanks bro, I'm glad you asked!
People often imply, and make it out to be like Kaepernick came in and all of a sudden we started winning because of him or he was a BIG part of it. Uhm? Did we NOT just finish 13-3 the year before and appear in the NFC Title game?.. News flash, Kap inherited a team that was already superbowl bound with him riding the bench. We were going to appear in all those NFC championship games and superbowls wether it was Kap at QB or Alex Smith or even Trent Dilfer coming out of retirement.... It really didn't matter... How can you say such a thing Sunday? Pff Keep reading....
FACTS tell us that any Quarterback that was playing for us at that time (2011-2014 Regular season) could win football games by doing nothing but playing safe football... Our defense, Field position, Turn over rate, and coaching is what strung the majority of wins together to showcase all of our wins during that stretch. Sure Kaep played well to win us some games but STATS dont lie people and heres the NUMBERS
OFFENSE
2011-- 8th In Rushing, 29th in passing (Alex's 1st year under Harbaugh)
2012-- 4th In Rushing, 23rd in passing (Kap's 1st year)
2013-- 3rd In Rushing, 30th in passing (Kaps 1st full year)
2014-- 3rd In Rushing, 30th in passing (Kaps 2nd full year) Improvements? I seen none.
2015-- 21st In Rushing, 30th in passing (How can your passing be this low when your losing every game forcing you to pass)
DEFENSE
2011- Rank #4
2012- Rank #3
2013- Rank #5
2014- Rank #5
2015- Rank #30
TEAM TURNOVER RATIO
2011- San Francisco #1 (NFC Title)
2012- San Francisco #8 (NFC Title)
2013- San Francisco #4 (Super Bowl Appearance)
2014- San Francisco #8
2015- San Francisco #15
Look, Just LOOK at those stats. And Lets not forget during those years we were also hailed as giving our offense amazing field position on almost every series.
Therefore i think its bologna and even more so, Annoying to keep hearing this, Lets cater to kaepernick again and everything will be alright. OR Lets just build a O-line first..... Thats not what we were doing to win football games. We were playing disciplined football, High turnover rates, not turning the ball over, and great field position with amazing coaching/defense/ and run game.. The flashes were when we would watch A.Smith, or Kap, Rush for 10+ yard gains on 3rd downs etc and we all sat back and went ooohhhhhh amazing!! NO, the Defensive turnover and the Special teams play that got us to the opponents 45 Yard line to set up that 10 yard scramble is what was amazing.
Its simple logic people. From 2011-2014 We were Top in EVERY category Besides WHAT? Passing!! The only leg people attempt to stand on when fighting that statistic is this.. "Well Sunday, We didnt have to throw the ball often in games because we were already ahead so we had to run the ball alot, which is why our passing stats are so low and our running was so high." Ok, so that #1 proves my point that we were relying on our run game and defense to win games, and #2 does NOT prove why we are 30th in passing in a year where Kaepernick and Gabbert should have our passing offense at least above the 30th in the league considering we are ALWAYS trailing and Always losing games. Wheres the garbage time stats? Wheres the shoot outs? We are losing every game so how is our passing offense still 30th? You know The same passing rank where we made a superbowl appearance? Oh thats right, Because for the first time ever our passing offense and Quarterback doesnt have a top 10 Defense, a top 10 Turnover rate, and a top 10 Rushing game to hide behind.. Sorry its the truth.
TO MY LAST POINT, You need a good defense to win in the NFL Sunday. WRONG SIR Below are all teams that made it into postseasons with bad defenses or below average......... LETS LOOK AT THE PASSED 3 Years!
2014 Postseason
Arizona appears #24 (Bottom 10)
Pittsburgh #18
Dallas #19
Green Bay #15
2013 Postseason
New England #26 (Bottom 10)
Chargers #23 (Bottom 10)
Indy #20
Philadelphia #29 (Bottom 5)
Green Bay #25
2012 Postseason
Minnesota #16
Indy #26
Baltimore #17
Atlanta #24
New England #25
The Above tells me you do not need an elite Defense to win in the NFL or even an above average one.. So why cant our Quarterbacks do it? Because they arent good quarterbacks.. All teams go through rough years where their defenses arent performing well, and their run game has hit a wall, But when you actually look at the bigger picture, one thing remains consistent on those teams and thats the quarterbacks play. And that is what we need, A quarterback.
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Lets settle this talk once and for all. QB Topic
Dec 18, 2015 at 11:34 PM
- SundayTicket
- Member
- Posts: 5,316
Dec 19, 2015 at 3:37 AM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,385
Teams with successful passing offenses give up more total yardage because the other team gets the ball more often. If the team is a good scoring team the other team is motivated to score too because they are behind. That figures into total yardage stats on defense.
Anyway, teams with crappy defenses get into the playoffs because nfl league structiure encourages mediocrity and regionalization. nobody argues that.
Anyway, teams with crappy defenses get into the playoffs because nfl league structiure encourages mediocrity and regionalization. nobody argues that.
Dec 19, 2015 at 4:00 AM
- Goatie
- Veteran
- Posts: 17,752
Interesting stats
The problem I have with comparing Gabbert with Kaep is that our O Line has sucked all year and until it doesn't leak I cannot properly assess Gabbert.
Gabbert appears better but Kaep might have just been having a form slump accentuated by the worst O Line in the league this year.
The problem I have with comparing Gabbert with Kaep is that our O Line has sucked all year and until it doesn't leak I cannot properly assess Gabbert.
Gabbert appears better but Kaep might have just been having a form slump accentuated by the worst O Line in the league this year.
Dec 19, 2015 at 4:46 AM
- Afrikan
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,470
there is no "Once and for all" Sunday... come on man you know that.
You are set in your ways.
I'll give you credit for putting alot of time in that post.
You are set in your ways.
I'll give you credit for putting alot of time in that post.
Dec 19, 2015 at 5:17 AM
- Goatie
- Veteran
- Posts: 17,752
Originally posted by Afrikan:
there is no "Once and for all" Sunday... come on man you know that.
You are set in your ways.
I'll give you credit for putting alot of time in that post.
It is all relative to who is in the zoo on game day huh?
Dec 19, 2015 at 5:27 AM
- Niners816
- Veteran
- Posts: 9,990
Now not trying to argue either way, but it's a dangerous game to base a passing game solely on net yards. We had two seasons ('12 & '13) in which our net yards per attempt was in the top 10. Basically what kept us down towards the bottom was throwing the ball as seldom as we did.
Same goes for rushing. In 2011 we actually had the 19th rated ypc, but given how much we choose to run the ball it gave us the 8th rated attacked. Now Kap takes over in '12 and our ypc ranks goes to 3rd, 11th, & 4th respectively. No doubt he benefited from a good/great OL but his legs greatly help make that rushing attack what it was.
My take on Kap is he came in like lightening in 2012 taking advantage of a league not nearly ready to defense what his game entails (390 ypg offense). Crabs injury in May of '13 left us with one Legitimate NFL WR and Kap struggled for the first 10 or so games of '13 (308 ypg offense). However, when crabs came back the offense started to perform at a solid pace again (360ish ypg). It was at this point I remained confident at his prospects of being a franchise type guy. 2014 was the plateau and falling off point. Be it injuries to the OL, overall noise around the team or truly not being able to grasp the pro game the wheels fell off. 2015 is just a s**t show without a head coach and the entire teams performance reflects this.
Let me also say this about Kap, I would have loved to see a real QB guru get his hands on him. My choice would have been Mike Shanahan. Shanny has 2 decades of results of QBs havng their best performances under him. QB guys have a way of ironing out mechanics and tailoring game plans to help QBs succeed. If Kap failed under him for example then you could feel pretty secure moving on.
Same goes for rushing. In 2011 we actually had the 19th rated ypc, but given how much we choose to run the ball it gave us the 8th rated attacked. Now Kap takes over in '12 and our ypc ranks goes to 3rd, 11th, & 4th respectively. No doubt he benefited from a good/great OL but his legs greatly help make that rushing attack what it was.
My take on Kap is he came in like lightening in 2012 taking advantage of a league not nearly ready to defense what his game entails (390 ypg offense). Crabs injury in May of '13 left us with one Legitimate NFL WR and Kap struggled for the first 10 or so games of '13 (308 ypg offense). However, when crabs came back the offense started to perform at a solid pace again (360ish ypg). It was at this point I remained confident at his prospects of being a franchise type guy. 2014 was the plateau and falling off point. Be it injuries to the OL, overall noise around the team or truly not being able to grasp the pro game the wheels fell off. 2015 is just a s**t show without a head coach and the entire teams performance reflects this.
Let me also say this about Kap, I would have loved to see a real QB guru get his hands on him. My choice would have been Mike Shanahan. Shanny has 2 decades of results of QBs havng their best performances under him. QB guys have a way of ironing out mechanics and tailoring game plans to help QBs succeed. If Kap failed under him for example then you could feel pretty secure moving on.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Dec 19, 2015 at 5:40 AM ]
Dec 19, 2015 at 5:47 AM
- CityKing415
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,901
You need a good coach with good coordinators. Period.
Dec 19, 2015 at 5:49 AM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,385
yeah looking at total yardage can be very misleading. team can be top ranked run because passing stinks (see us). so they run more than anyone else has to.
one of my favorite teams 94 niners probably the best offensive team in modern football but there were no stats to reflect their effectiveness. games over 10 minutes into 3q. no stats for that. largest most consistent yards per play. no stats for that.
stats dont always tell the story.
one of my favorite teams 94 niners probably the best offensive team in modern football but there were no stats to reflect their effectiveness. games over 10 minutes into 3q. no stats for that. largest most consistent yards per play. no stats for that.
stats dont always tell the story.
Dec 19, 2015 at 6:10 AM
- Niners816
- Veteran
- Posts: 9,990
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:yeah looking at total yardage can be very misleading. team can be top ranked run because passing stinks (see us). so they run more than anyone else has to.
one of my favorite teams 94 niners probably the best offensive team in modern football but there were no stats to reflect their effectiveness. games over 10 minutes into 3q. no stats for that. largest most consistent yards per play. no stats for that.
stats dont always tell the story.
1994 was the best offense IMO as well. It's 379 ypg doesn't tell the whole story. However it was 1st in first downs, net pass yards per attempt and pass Tds. The game in Atlanta that year was that offense in a nutshell. Steve was 15 for 16 for like 145 yards and 4 Tds in the first half. Doesn't take another snap and we finish with 281 total yards because the game was over at half time. Some nuts numbers on the 1994 team surrounds Steve. He had the following that year:
- a 141 QB rating on third down
- a 119 QB rating in the red zone
- a 27 to zero TD to int ratio in the red zone
- completed 77% of his passes on the road
- the 14 games (including playoffs)following the philly game blowout had Steve throwing 35 Tds and only 3 ints
These stats have always had me holding the opinion that 1994 was the best offense I've saw.
Sorry to derail
[ Edited by Niners816 on Dec 19, 2015 at 6:11 AM ]
Dec 19, 2015 at 6:49 AM
- Temecula49ersfan
- Veteran
- Posts: 916
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:Teams with successful passing offenses give up more total yardage because the other team gets the ball more often. If the team is a good scoring team the other team is motivated to score too because they are behind. That figures into total yardage stats on defense.
Anyway, teams with crappy defenses get into the playoffs because nfl league structiure encourages mediocrity and regionalization. nobody argues that.
Jesus Christ you're a whiney child. Go to bed 2 hours earlier and think before you post. You and about 5 other posters would learn a lot if you thought before you typed and then hit the post reply button.
Rational thoughts are becoming fewer and farther between on this site.
Dec 19, 2015 at 6:55 AM
- 9ersLiferInChicago
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,067
Which is why I will continue to insist that we need to draft a QB in the 1st next draft .
Dec 19, 2015 at 7:07 AM
- TonyStarks
- Veteran
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Dec 19, 2015 at 7:11 AM
- GrumpyDad
- Member
- Posts: 778
Tldr
Dec 19, 2015 at 7:21 AM
- Niners816
- Veteran
- Posts: 9,990
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
What does Richard Sherman and the Seahawks have to do with this thread?
Dec 19, 2015 at 7:36 AM
- NYniner85
- Veteran
- Posts: 107,345
I think you need to look at attempts as well not just passing yards...SF was build as a running team that wanted to control the clock and pay sound defense.
Look at Roman in buffalo they are ranked 28th in passing yards (also one of the lowest teams in the league in attempts) but are 3rd in th league in rushing...sound familiar??
I'm not for or against Kap/Gabbert but it starts with coaching staff and the players as a whole on the offensive side.
Look at Roman in buffalo they are ranked 28th in passing yards (also one of the lowest teams in the league in attempts) but are 3rd in th league in rushing...sound familiar??
I'm not for or against Kap/Gabbert but it starts with coaching staff and the players as a whole on the offensive side.