Sadly, there is not one true standout on the entire roster. Not one franchise player.
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Rebuilding mode - what players do we hold onto?
Nov 26, 2015 at 7:26 PM
- theninermaniac
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Nov 26, 2015 at 7:28 PM
- AB81Rules
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Originally posted by TTown9ers:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I disagree big time with the DBs, we need huge upgrades at CB, Brock isn't a #1 CB, and the rest, like Acker are unproven or garbage.
I fully agree with this. The pass rush argument is bogus and an excuse. We could use a true #1 cb. Not gonna find those in round 5 through udfa. Baalke would rather have a million 1st and 2nd round safeties
What pisses me off is that if we wanted a DB to play CB, we should have picked Courtney Roby, who went right after us to Denver, and is a much better DB than Ward is.
Nov 26, 2015 at 7:29 PM
- JerrySandwich
- UptightVegemite
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Team is so s**t that Gab is a must keep lol,a dude who has played 2 decent in his whole useless career
Nov 26, 2015 at 7:34 PM
- Phoenix49ers
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Originally posted by AB81Rules:
What pisses me off is that if we wanted a DB to play CB, we should have picked Courtney Roby, who went right after us to Denver, and is a much better DB than Ward is.
You mean Bradley Roby. Courtney Roby is a WR. And I'm sure Denver having a beastly pass rush over the past 2 seasons hasn't hurt a bit. When you've got Miller and Ware going after the QB, it makes a big difference.
That's where I think the 49ers should aim their resources, improving the pass rush, because if you can't rush the QB, if you can't hit the QB, if you give the QB all day to sit back in the pocket, it doesn't matter one bit who you have in your secondary, the better QB's will light you up.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Nov 26, 2015 at 7:35 PM ]
Nov 26, 2015 at 7:37 PM
- Phoenix49ers
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- Posts: 119,212
Originally posted by BarrySandwich:
Team is so s**t that Gab is a must keep lol,a dude who has played 2 decent in his whole useless career
This is a pretty ridiculous argument. Gabbert clearly has shown a great deal of improvement, its worthwhile to see if he keeps it up, considering how hard it is to find quality QB's, it would be stupid to let him go anywhere.
Nov 26, 2015 at 7:41 PM
- tezel112
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Two games FFS. That's what happens when people are desperate trying to grab hold onto something. Gabbert is a cool dude as well. s**t gets really ugly whe your team starts losing badly,
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:10 PM
- eastcoast49ersfan
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,054
Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Sadly, there is not one true standout on the entire roster. Not one franchise player.
Luckily, we'll have two years with high draft picks to hopefully change this. Hyde, Armstead, and Lynch could be pretty good players. There aren't a ton of players I think we need to keep, but the list starts with those 3.
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:15 PM
- blm7754
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Keep all the young/cheap talent. No reason to not keep guys that are still on their rookie contracts and developing when in rebuild mode. Here is a list of players I like on the roster (expected 2016 starters in bold):
Offense:
Hyde - the star of the offense, we just need a decent OL so he doesn't have to fight so hard for yards.
Gabbert - looking like a solid QB that can fill the position while we develop someone with more upside.
Staley - guys a stud and has never demanded as much money as he could on the open market. Keep him as long as he's productive.
Boone - he's a pending FA, but we have enough holes to fill on the OL as it is. we should try to keep him.
T. Smith - he hasn't had many opportunities lately. when Boldin isn't around to draw attention off of him, he's great. excellent hands and speed. young too.
Patton - developing into a nice #3 WR
Celek - really like when he's shown this year.
V. Mcdonald - he runs pretty good routes and is quick, if his hand's are better with Gabberts throws he's probably a keeper
B. Miller - still one of the best FBs in the game
Defense:
Bowman - he's slowly returning to form. he'll be better with another year to strengthen that knee.
Lynch - valuable pass rusher
Armistead - already our best DL
Reid - still a smart and fast player. i think he's struggled most in Mangini's schemes.
Tarrt - young buck with upside
Ward - he's been a little inconsistent, but generally improved from last year.
Brock - he struggles against top receivers. but he's still a capable starter. he'd look better with more help around him
Carradine - developing pass rusher. i think moving him outside is the right plan.
Dial - I expected more from him this year. he's still young/cheap and a solid rotational player. But we could upgrade him as a starter.
Acker/Johnson/Reaser/Cromarite - these guys have all flashed potential at times. we should keep them all in the mix to see who stands out.
After writing that all down, it's clear that we already have a lot of players that should be part of a rebuild. That is because we are already rebuilding. This is year 1. We don't have a lot of high-priced established veterans. That is one of the reasons why we suck this year. But it is also reason for optimism.
Of the vets we have now, here are the ones that I don't think have a future with the team:
Pears - sucks
Devey - sucks
Martin - sucks
Brooks - solid, but declining and expensive.
Bethea - solid, but declining and expensive.
Wilhoite - sucks
Boldin - I love the dude, but he's 36 years old. Maybe one more year. But I'm not holding my breath.
Offense:
Hyde - the star of the offense, we just need a decent OL so he doesn't have to fight so hard for yards.
Gabbert - looking like a solid QB that can fill the position while we develop someone with more upside.
Staley - guys a stud and has never demanded as much money as he could on the open market. Keep him as long as he's productive.
Boone - he's a pending FA, but we have enough holes to fill on the OL as it is. we should try to keep him.
T. Smith - he hasn't had many opportunities lately. when Boldin isn't around to draw attention off of him, he's great. excellent hands and speed. young too.
Patton - developing into a nice #3 WR
Celek - really like when he's shown this year.
V. Mcdonald - he runs pretty good routes and is quick, if his hand's are better with Gabberts throws he's probably a keeper
B. Miller - still one of the best FBs in the game
Defense:
Bowman - he's slowly returning to form. he'll be better with another year to strengthen that knee.
Lynch - valuable pass rusher
Armistead - already our best DL
Reid - still a smart and fast player. i think he's struggled most in Mangini's schemes.
Tarrt - young buck with upside
Ward - he's been a little inconsistent, but generally improved from last year.
Brock - he struggles against top receivers. but he's still a capable starter. he'd look better with more help around him
Carradine - developing pass rusher. i think moving him outside is the right plan.
Dial - I expected more from him this year. he's still young/cheap and a solid rotational player. But we could upgrade him as a starter.
Acker/Johnson/Reaser/Cromarite - these guys have all flashed potential at times. we should keep them all in the mix to see who stands out.
After writing that all down, it's clear that we already have a lot of players that should be part of a rebuild. That is because we are already rebuilding. This is year 1. We don't have a lot of high-priced established veterans. That is one of the reasons why we suck this year. But it is also reason for optimism.
Of the vets we have now, here are the ones that I don't think have a future with the team:
Pears - sucks
Devey - sucks
Martin - sucks
Brooks - solid, but declining and expensive.
Bethea - solid, but declining and expensive.
Wilhoite - sucks
Boldin - I love the dude, but he's 36 years old. Maybe one more year. But I'm not holding my breath.
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:31 PM
- Karma
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,165
There is a big difference between "keeper" and "core" guys. We have a good amount of the first and not enough of the second. That said, here's how I see the roster going forward:
Offense:
QB- Gabbert is showing enough to be, at worst, a placeholder or, at best, a resurrected stud. Either way, I am comfortable with him as the the starter next year. Beyond him, we have nothing.
OL- Staley is still a stud and I think Boone should be brought back. He is immensely talented and our line needs help. Kilgore should return as the starting center. After those three, it's a toss up as to who else could be brought back. Tiller has been an improvement over Devey and Brown has intriguing size. Pears and Devey are hopefully gone. Martin and Thomas are head scratchers.
WR- Smith, Patton, Ellington, and Smelter all should be back. Boldin should move on and White will come in with plenty to prove.
TE- Celek is a solid starter. McDonald is FINALLY showing something. Bell should have a chance to prove himself and Anderson is super athletic. This should be a strong, if unspectacular, group.
RB- Hyde is obviously a stud. Bush is done, Davis has an opportunity to prove something, and that's about it. Thin doesn't begin to describe this group.
FB- Miller plays well at a position that is becoming obsolete.
Needs: First and foremost, the OL needs to be fixed. After that, we need more punch from our backfield. Running Hyde into the ground is not a plan for success. If we have time, maybe some WR help would be nice. We definitely need a young QB to groom. Will it be a first rounder?
Defense:
DL- Dial, Armstead, Williams and/or Dorsey are solid. Tank still seems like a 4-3 DE playing out of position, but his talent is there. Purcell keeps improving and could turn into a starter one day.
ILB- Bowman still flashes his dominant self, but we have to hope that he will continue to get healthier. After him..... Wide open.
OLB- Lynch, Lynch, Lynch. I don't see them bringing Brooks back, especially at his price tag. Lemonier has proven nothing. Harold might develop and is at least worth a bench spot. This is the biggest need on defense.
Safety- Ward, Tartt, and Reid are young and loaded with talent. Bethea might have something left in the tank, but it might be cheaper to let him walk and let the youth take over. McCray is worthwhile as a ST stud, but can he offer anything on defense?
CB- Acker, Johnson, and Reaser at least have earned a spot next year. Each of them has upside worth developing. Brock's career is the ultimate roller coaster. UDFA, roster after thought, starter, shutdown corner, injury prone, rinse and repeat. Let him earn his spot next year.
Needs: OLB is a huge need. CB is next. That group is young, but more competition is always a good thing. ILB is only a need if the right guy is there. Hodges, Skov, Armstrong, Wilhoite.... None of them inspire much, but we don't need to add another scrub.
Offense:
QB- Gabbert is showing enough to be, at worst, a placeholder or, at best, a resurrected stud. Either way, I am comfortable with him as the the starter next year. Beyond him, we have nothing.
OL- Staley is still a stud and I think Boone should be brought back. He is immensely talented and our line needs help. Kilgore should return as the starting center. After those three, it's a toss up as to who else could be brought back. Tiller has been an improvement over Devey and Brown has intriguing size. Pears and Devey are hopefully gone. Martin and Thomas are head scratchers.
WR- Smith, Patton, Ellington, and Smelter all should be back. Boldin should move on and White will come in with plenty to prove.
TE- Celek is a solid starter. McDonald is FINALLY showing something. Bell should have a chance to prove himself and Anderson is super athletic. This should be a strong, if unspectacular, group.
RB- Hyde is obviously a stud. Bush is done, Davis has an opportunity to prove something, and that's about it. Thin doesn't begin to describe this group.
FB- Miller plays well at a position that is becoming obsolete.
Needs: First and foremost, the OL needs to be fixed. After that, we need more punch from our backfield. Running Hyde into the ground is not a plan for success. If we have time, maybe some WR help would be nice. We definitely need a young QB to groom. Will it be a first rounder?
Defense:
DL- Dial, Armstead, Williams and/or Dorsey are solid. Tank still seems like a 4-3 DE playing out of position, but his talent is there. Purcell keeps improving and could turn into a starter one day.
ILB- Bowman still flashes his dominant self, but we have to hope that he will continue to get healthier. After him..... Wide open.
OLB- Lynch, Lynch, Lynch. I don't see them bringing Brooks back, especially at his price tag. Lemonier has proven nothing. Harold might develop and is at least worth a bench spot. This is the biggest need on defense.
Safety- Ward, Tartt, and Reid are young and loaded with talent. Bethea might have something left in the tank, but it might be cheaper to let him walk and let the youth take over. McCray is worthwhile as a ST stud, but can he offer anything on defense?
CB- Acker, Johnson, and Reaser at least have earned a spot next year. Each of them has upside worth developing. Brock's career is the ultimate roller coaster. UDFA, roster after thought, starter, shutdown corner, injury prone, rinse and repeat. Let him earn his spot next year.
Needs: OLB is a huge need. CB is next. That group is young, but more competition is always a good thing. ILB is only a need if the right guy is there. Hodges, Skov, Armstrong, Wilhoite.... None of them inspire much, but we don't need to add another scrub.
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:31 PM
- sanjo49er
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- Posts: 5,075
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:Same players i was going to mention. I f****ng love Hyde, Doot runs with and attitude.
Luckily, we'll have two years with high draft picks to hopefully change this. Hyde, Armstead, and Lynch could be pretty good players. There aren't a ton of players I think we need to keep, but the list starts with those 3.
Lynch and Armstead 2 Mean Mofos that the 49ers can build around on D
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:38 PM
- ElephantHaley
- Member
- Posts: 7,020
This is what the 49ers do, draft a tweener tooo slow for CB and tooo small for safety so as long as those people are still employed with the team to make those descisions, the 49ers will continue to be a Bottom Feeder just like they have been pre harbaugh and post Harbaugh
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:48 PM
- ElephantHaley
- Member
- Posts: 7,020
Tremaine Brock and Eric Reid can leave also.
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:55 PM
- 9erfanAUS
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Not sure why everyone has all of a sudden become high on McDonald.. his game on against the Seahawks was an aberration more than anything.
Nov 26, 2015 at 8:59 PM
- 49AllTheTime
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Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:Not sure why everyone has all of a sudden become high on McDonald.. his game on against the Seahawks was an aberration more than anything.
How?, his issue was catching the ball and nothing else.
If he corrects that..then he's a really good TE
Nov 26, 2015 at 9:16 PM
- 9erfanAUS
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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Not sure why everyone has all of a sudden become high on McDonald.. his game on against the Seahawks was an aberration more than anything.
How?, his issue was catching the ball and nothing else.
If he corrects that..then he's a really good TE
Vance Mcdonald career numbers: 23 catches, 278 yards, 1 TD. Of this, 65 yards and his lone TD came last week against the Seahawks. There's nothing to indicate that his problems are limited to catching the ball. He just flat out isn't good.