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Week 8 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game...
Nov 2, 2015 at 3:26 PM
- pasodoc9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,009
Chicago, if the best we can do is Martin, I quit. We have to able to do better than that. 2 OLs in rd 1, then FA pouncey or mack. OLB passrusher, 1 DL both in round 2. Buy von miller. Buy the youngest of the 6 top CBs coming out. And yes, after 2 rd 1 picks and 2 rd 2 picks, that would be our total draft. Kind of different than 12 picks, 13 picks and what 10 or 11 already this yr. TRade 'em all for 2 #1s and 2 # 2s. We should be done with this 13 picks b.s.
Nov 2, 2015 at 3:47 PM
- NinerPrideinNJ
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,110
"I don't want to make excuses for Kap and Chryst" (but I'm going to make excuses for Kap and Chryst). Come on Marv!
Good QBs have played behind some truly awful o-lines and still garnered success. You adapt the gameplan to avoid their most glaring weaknesses and employ quick-release 2 step drop patterns to start getting the defense to at least respect your passing game. And I don't mean these hitch routes that develop BEHIND the line of scrimmage.
Plain and simple, there's no real use in evaluating this team right now. They're horrendous from top to bottom and that lies at the feet of York and Baalke, who knew damn well this is how it would end up.
No one should be surprised that this is where they're at. The minute Harbaugh left was the minute you could have expected this to go down.
Good coaches make bad players look good; bad coaches make good players look bad--this is undeniably true but in Kap's case, even one of the great head coaches and a former QB in this league could still only max his ceiling at average, clearly indicating that he's just not any good.
Any wins from here on out are a detriment to the team's draft order and future in the coaching dept. The last thing they need are a string of meaningless wins to give the false impression of "momentum and something to build on in 2016". This happened over and over again with Nolan and Singletary.
Play for the #1 pick, bench Kaepernick (even if Gabbert isn't any better, he can't be worse and no one wants to look at his stupid face any longer) and get a new staff and talent in 2016. They'll still stink for the foreseeable decade because that begins with York and he ain't going anywhere, but I at least need better than this.
This team is in competition with 2004 and 2007 as the worst I've seen.
Good QBs have played behind some truly awful o-lines and still garnered success. You adapt the gameplan to avoid their most glaring weaknesses and employ quick-release 2 step drop patterns to start getting the defense to at least respect your passing game. And I don't mean these hitch routes that develop BEHIND the line of scrimmage.
Plain and simple, there's no real use in evaluating this team right now. They're horrendous from top to bottom and that lies at the feet of York and Baalke, who knew damn well this is how it would end up.
No one should be surprised that this is where they're at. The minute Harbaugh left was the minute you could have expected this to go down.
Good coaches make bad players look good; bad coaches make good players look bad--this is undeniably true but in Kap's case, even one of the great head coaches and a former QB in this league could still only max his ceiling at average, clearly indicating that he's just not any good.
Any wins from here on out are a detriment to the team's draft order and future in the coaching dept. The last thing they need are a string of meaningless wins to give the false impression of "momentum and something to build on in 2016". This happened over and over again with Nolan and Singletary.
Play for the #1 pick, bench Kaepernick (even if Gabbert isn't any better, he can't be worse and no one wants to look at his stupid face any longer) and get a new staff and talent in 2016. They'll still stink for the foreseeable decade because that begins with York and he ain't going anywhere, but I at least need better than this.
This team is in competition with 2004 and 2007 as the worst I've seen.
[ Edited by NinerPrideinNJ on Nov 2, 2015 at 3:49 PM ]
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:13 PM
- tohara3
- Veteran
- Posts: 28,604
Nice post as usual Marvin49. This was very hard to watch. Good luck to Vernon in Denver. I say the o-line needs switched up badly, get others guys in there because these guys aren't getting it done at all. I would also liked to see the other younger guys get to play so we know what we have all around before next season.
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:15 PM
- OhioRedwood
- Veteran
- Posts: 163
Originally posted by sacniner:
Marvin, what's the worst that could happen by starting Gabbert? Yeah, he'll probably suck bad also but we don't know for sure. If he does suck, Kap comes back in and continues to be non-functional (maybe he'll have one or two good games and everyone gets WAY too excited but you catch my drift).
Nothing to lose IMO. What is there to gain? Hell, maybe Gabbert can be a spark so fans aren't totally depressed? So the team isn't texting reporters and asking for Kap to be benched?
Never thought I would say this about BLAINE FREAKING GABBERT, but I would prefer him starting next game. I mean this offense literally is not functional.
You start Gabbert to take Kaep out of the equation so you can properly evaluate OTHER stuff. I would not expect success either way. The cancer has spread too far, this season at best.. ends up ugly. I want to see if a couple weeks to sit and think.. helps Kaep. I want to see if the coaching.. sucks either way..if they can get at least a semi-functioning O-Line. Until you are willing to juggle a bit.. you don't easily find your weak links.
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:25 PM
- blop
- Veteran
- Posts: 13
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Good QBs have played behind some truly awful o-lines and still garnered success. You adapt the gameplan to avoid their most glaring weaknesses and employ quick-release 2 step drop patterns to start getting the defense to at least respect your passing game. And I don't mean these hitch routes that develop BEHIND the line of scrimmage.
I mean, I'm sure this is true to some extent, but it was just a couple years ago that Manning's incredibly productive offense was absolutely molested by Seattle's pass rush, making Manning look like a chump of a QB. It was just last season that the Patriot's dynasty was "over" after Brady repeatedly looked like crap due to a s**t O line (wonder how they fixed that... :( ) and a lack of reliable receivers. And it was just last night that Rodgers looked completely ineffective due to relentless pressure and receivers who could not get open-- at least, during the last quarter and a half of the game that I actually watched.
None of that is to compare Kap to a Manning or Brady or Rodgers. He's definitely not any of 'em. And even under the most advantageous conditions, he would almost certainly never be one of 'em. The point is that when things like O lines catastrophically fail or receivers just can't get open-- at least relative to O line failure-- even great QBs can look not so great. And that's when these extremely adverse conditions are exceptional. What about when they are the rule? A season and a half of relatively slow receivers and a joke of an offensive line? What does that do?
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:44 PM
- thl408
- Moderator
- Posts: 32,303
I'm watching the film and I feel so bad for Torrey. Why can't Kap lock on to Torrey like he did with Crabs? With Boldin out of the game, now was the time to force feed Torrey. Instead, Kap looks to Simpson backside numerous times. Forget the play that is going around where Torrey was left uncovered. There are other instances where it's actually a pass play and Kap just doesn't spot the open WR or doesn't look to the correct side of the field.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:46 PM
- leakyfausett
- Veteran
- Posts: 11,556
Originally posted by thl408:That is because the football is smarter than Kap.
I'm watching the film and I feel so bad for Torrey. Why can't Kap lock on to Torrey like he did with Crabs? With Boldin out of the game, now was the time to force feed Torrey. Instead, Kap looks to Simpson backside numerous times. Forget the play that is going around where Torrey was left uncovered. There are other instances where it's actually a pass play and Kap just doesn't spot the open WR or doesn't look to the correct side of the field.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
Nov 2, 2015 at 4:50 PM
- SofaKing
- Veteran
- Posts: 27,442
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm watching the film and I feel so bad for Torrey. Why can't Kap lock on to Torrey like he did with Crabs? With Boldin out of the game, now was the time to force feed Torrey. Instead, Kap looks to Simpson backside numerous times. Forget the play that is going around where Torrey was left uncovered. There are other instances where it's actually a pass play and Kap just doesn't spot the open WR or doesn't look to the correct side of the field.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
Sad thing is this is happening with increasing frequency. Every game there are numerous examples of where the ball should go, and the throw is not being made.
Kap is not seeing the field at all, and that's after the offense has been simplified to the extreme. Don't know what to say other than he's simply not getting the job done.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Nov 2, 2015 at 4:50 PM ]
Nov 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM
- ClassicNiner
- Veteran
- Posts: 827
Marvin, I have been reading your reports every Monday for a long time, and I have to say that this is the most depressing one ever. Even then, you may be overly optimistic. I remember when you began every week with Kap's stats, showing ostensibly how he was improving. It is unfathomable how he has become this bad. The only guy on the offensive side of the ball that is above average is Staley. Perhaps Torrey Smith would be too if someone could get him the ball.
So, if you've got 3 guys who can run back punts (Bush, Ellington, Patton) and you have one experienced running back, and he is injury prone, about the dumbest thing you could do would be to choose Bush to run back punts. Bingo!
So, if you've got 3 guys who can run back punts (Bush, Ellington, Patton) and you have one experienced running back, and he is injury prone, about the dumbest thing you could do would be to choose Bush to run back punts. Bingo!
Nov 2, 2015 at 10:16 PM
- 9ersLiferInChicago
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,067
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:I'm not sold on martin either. But Kilgore isn't available yet, so we really don't have any other options there. I'm on record as stating that our first pick needs to be a QB (Lynch, Cook, or Goff), THEN LET HIM SIT A SEASON behind a bridge QB. I'm all up for trading back into the 1st to get the best O-lineman available, and getting an O-lineman in the 1st in 2017. And Pouncey and V. Miller would be nice. But I highly doubt that Baalke and York will spend that kind of cash. Let them tell it we have the talent to win the SB this year and we're underperforming, and they are just dumbfounded at our 2-6 record.
Chicago, if the best we can do is Martin, I quit. We have to able to do better than that. 2 OLs in rd 1, then FA pouncey or mack. OLB passrusher, 1 DL both in round 2. Buy von miller. Buy the youngest of the 6 top CBs coming out. And yes, after 2 rd 1 picks and 2 rd 2 picks, that would be our total draft. Kind of different than 12 picks, 13 picks and what 10 or 11 already this yr. TRade 'em all for 2 #1s and 2 # 2s. We should be done with this 13 picks b.s.
Nov 3, 2015 at 1:38 AM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,385
High round qb are usually disaster. Too much pressure to play them. They need to sit 1 - 2 years. we need a 2. 3 year bridge once we get an oc that can install an updated wco. Realistically will this happen in five years?
Nov 3, 2015 at 1:41 AM
- brodiebluebanaszak
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,385
Originally posted by thl408:I'm watching the film and I feel so bad for Torrey. Why can't Kap lock on to Torrey like he did with Crabs? With Boldin out of the game, now was the time to force feed Torrey. Instead, Kap looks to Simpson backside numerous times. Forget the play that is going around where Torrey was left uncovered. There are other instances where it's actually a pass play and Kap just doesn't spot the open WR or doesn't look to the correct side of the field.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
This sounds like kap is being told get simpson involved. Make friends with vern. Etc. He follows orders. He doesnt just play.
Nov 3, 2015 at 11:27 AM
- Morgy
- Hey bud, what’s your problem?
- Posts: 29,673
This all just makes me wanna
Nov 3, 2015 at 9:29 PM
- OnTheClock
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 36,346
Originally posted by thl408:I'm watching the film and I feel so bad for Torrey. Why can't Kap lock on to Torrey like he did with Crabs? With Boldin out of the game, now was the time to force feed Torrey. Instead, Kap looks to Simpson backside numerous times. Forget the play that is going around where Torrey was left uncovered. There are other instances where it's actually a pass play and Kap just doesn't spot the open WR or doesn't look to the correct side of the field.
Torrey got 5 targets and Simpson gets 10. That's backwards. I'll wait for the film thread, but watching this is maddening. (score 13 - 3) This is the play where Patton is jumping up and down in the end zone - open on a Corner route - simple high/low read and Kap neglects Patton who is headed to the corner of the end zone. Kap targets VD for a 3 yard gain.
So many times players are beating their man but not getting the ball. Gabbert isn't a great QB by any means, but if he has better vision, he's going to produce results. We have talented players who can get open at WR and TE. Gabbert is capable of at least finding the open man and is willing to take the hit to make a throw. CK panics from the pocket instead of navigating in and out of it.
As a rookie with the Jaguars, this is who Gabbert had as his weapons... WR: Jason Hill and Mike Thomas (both out of the league now),
TE: Mercedes Lewis (to be fair, he had a pro bowl season with Garrard at QB)
I dunno. In year five, we'll see. You never know. It'll just be a breath of fresh air to see someone else, just to know what we have.