Week 8 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Geep Chryst as an offensive coordinator: 1998 - #26. 1999. #28. 2015 - #32. There is a reason he went 16 years between OC jobs. When you hire bad coaches you get bad results.

That's what I was getting at. How do you give a guy like this the benefit of the doubt?

No benefit...just sayin' its worth noting what he's up against.

A change is needed here from the top all the way down. It seems like each year Baslke is around the team gets progressively worse.

When it comes to the coaching staff I would feel for them except that they all knew what they were getting into. Tomsula actively campaigning for the job while his boss (Harbaugh) was having leaked reports about him show up everywhere kills any sympathy there.

I wonder if the way this coaching regime change was orchestrated also played a key role in long time 49ers deciding to walk away.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I have to admit...I'm usually pretty good at rewatching these games and coming away feeling better...but it's getting harder and harder.



1) Kap: Again (broken record) he didn't play well, but given the dysfunction around him (and possibly because of him...more on that later) it's impossible to put this all on him. Yeah, I see that some teammates want him benched. Not in that camp...yet.... Not seeing Torrey wide open is kinda damning tho. I guess my hesitation in benching Kap is that I don't really get what it would solve. He's either the guy going forward or he's not. Him being on the bench doesn't help make that argument one way or the other. All it would do is show how bad Gabbert is and actually make people long for Kap again. At least that's what I think will happen.

Gabbert might play better for a bit...but Gabberts biggest weakness was that he because coimpletely non-functional under pressure...and now peeps want to put him behind THAT line?



2) Chryst: So this one is really about both Kap and Chryst...and the O in general. I know people hate Chryst and have hated him since the day one. I'm not going to defend him per se, but I think it should be pointed out that he's in a really rough spot. He's got a line that can't run or pass block, a QB who's completely shell-shocked, down his best WR who runs 4.8-4.9 on a good day, and yesterday was down to his 5th RB.

How do you call an offense under those conditions? You simplify for the QB, but then the D just sits on the routes. I see him dialing up the same simply plays time after time hoping for a better result and ordinarily that would drive me nuts...but what are his other options? So many parts not functioning correctly...at some point the players need to make the damn plays.

Now I'm not saying Chryst has been great...but I actually feel for the guy. What the hell is he supposed to do when his line can't block, his QB has become completely risk averse and terrified of his own shadow and he's down his best skill position players?

Yikes. He thought he had it bad when Leaf was his QB.



3) O-Line: I don't know that I can say something here that I haven't already said in just about every other "Thoughts" thread. They suck. Plain and simple. They aren't getting better. They won't get better till different players are playing.



4) Mike Davis: I actually like the guy and he got no help. Still though...he needs to make SOME of those guys miss in the backfield. I realize it's a tall order with that line, but come on man...you gotta make someone miss.



5) Dawson: Good for the old man...still getting it done as a kicker AND had a 47 yard punt.



6) Vernon: Bye Vernon. Yer done. If he's not traded, he's gone in the offseason. Shadow of his former self. Doesn't even appear to try to break tackles. Goes out of bounds without much of a fight. Was never a great TE in the classic sense (mismatch nightmare, but never really filled the TE "find and open spot and be the QBs best friend" role) and now that his skillset is declining...he's next to useless.



7) Defense: Again played good enough to win. To bad the offense is so horrifically bad. No pressure again but outside of the breakdowns on the 71 yard Gurley run (this just in: he's good) they played fairly well against the run. What can I say...baby steps.



8) Tartt: Was nice to see him out there getting some experience. I don't think Bethea will be back so I think that injury is a blessing in disguise. This year is lost. Might as well get those young guys some playing time so they are more ready next year. That should be the theme of everything...get the young guys in there. Armstead. Thomas. Hell, how is Smelter doing in his rehab? Gotta get these guys in there with some playing time so they aren't rookies all over again next year.



9) Bush: I feel for the guy...but all I was thinking when he want down was "seriously"? I don't yet know the extent of it, but man...time to retire Reggie.



10) Draft: Looks like I'll be looking at draft eligible players pretty early this year.

On Chryst, maybe its just me, but I expect a better offense than what we have. I know the injuries in the Rams game, but my goodness. They are not competitive on that side of the ball. One touchdown, in garbage time, against a divisional opponent in THREE divisional games this year.

Chryst mentioned a few weeks ago "Our base offense should be set up to beat your three division opponents" This is so troubling. Our divisional opponents have BLOWN us out this year. Outscored: 94-16. What does that tell us about our offensive staff and game planning? Clean house after the year, please.

Originally posted by sacniner:
Agree on the Chryst point. He isn't a premiere OC, but damn, how do you succeed with this? How much can you simplify an offense in the NFL? WTF is he supposed to do? And no, the head coach can't help him because he doesn't' know s**t.

Some say we can't assess Kap because he has no OL to allow him to work. I think this "excuse" applies more so to Geep. He has no OL to allow him to dial up more elaborate route combinations, a QB that can't spot open WRs, and the injured #1WR and #1 RB. Not saying Geep is good, but what we are seeing called is very simplified due to necessity.

This is Geep adjusting to the lack of talent on the OL and a struggling QB. Last year we complained about how HaRo dialed up long developing routes despite the OL not allowing those routes to unfold. This year we complain about how simple the offense looks. The root cause is the OL. This year, Kap seems to have extreme tunnel vision so that compounds the problem. I get that the offense is poorly ranked and can't score worth a lick, but the emphasis, to me, is on the players. Geep has his hands tied.

At this point what does Gabbert bring to the table with this O-Line? Any QB is going to get killed back there.

Marvin, what's the worst that could happen by starting Gabbert? Yeah, he'll probably suck bad also but we don't know for sure. If he does suck, Kap comes back in and continues to be non-functional (maybe he'll have one or two good games and everyone gets WAY too excited but you catch my drift).

Nothing to lose IMO. What is there to gain? Hell, maybe Gabbert can be a spark so fans aren't totally depressed? So the team isn't texting reporters and asking for Kap to be benched?

Never thought I would say this about BLAINE FREAKING GABBERT, but I would prefer him starting next game. I mean this offense literally is not functional.

I don't think anyone calling for Gabbert thinks he will be better...It is more a function of what is best for Kap. Maybe some time on the pine helps him clear his head, maybe it doesn't, but if he gets hurt in there he is done for as a starter. Also if he were to get hurt and it was something that carried into next year we are stuck with him because his money is guaranteed for injury only. If Gabbert turned out to be a late bloomer that would be a huge bonus...but it isn't why most people are calling for him.

Originally posted by thl408:
Some say we can't assess Kap because he has no OL to allow him to work. I think this "excuse" applies more so to Geep. He has no OL to allow him to dial up more elaborate route combinations, a QB that can't spot open WRs, and the injured #1WR and #1 RB. Not saying Geep is good, but what we are seeing called is very simplified due to necessity.

This is Geep adjusting to the lack of talent on the OL and a struggling QB. Last year we complained about how HaRo dialed up long developing routes despite the OL not allowing those routes to unfold. This year we complain about how simple the offense looks. The root cause is the OL. This year, Kap seems to have extreme tunnel vision so that compounds the problem. I get that the offense is poorly ranked and can't score worth a lick, but the emphasis, to me, is on the players. Geep has his hands tied.

How so? Geep has never been better than a bad OC if you look at his past. Kaep has at one point been a above average QB who had performed in big games. I'm confused how Geep gets a pass and Kaep doesn't. Either neither does or Kaep does and Geep doesn't.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

I don't think anyone calling for Gabbert thinks he will be better...It is more a function of what is best for Kap. Maybe some time on the pine helps him clear his head, maybe it doesn't, but if he gets hurt in there he is done for as a starter. Also if he were to get hurt and it was something that carried into next year we are stuck with him because his money is guaranteed for injury only. If Gabbert turned out to be a late bloomer that would be a huge bonus...but it isn't why most people are calling for him.

Don't forget that the only guarantees Kaep will see kick in if he gets injured. The fact Kaepernick is still in there suggests management isn't sure what to do with him yet.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by sacniner:
Agree on the Chryst point. He isn't a premiere OC, but damn, how do you succeed with this? How much can you simplify an offense in the NFL? WTF is he supposed to do? And no, the head coach can't help him because he doesn't' know s**t.

Some say we can't assess Kap because he has no OL to allow him to work. I think this "excuse" applies more so to Geep. He has no OL to allow him to dial up more elaborate route combinations, a QB that can't spot open WRs, and the injured #1WR and #1 RB. Not saying Geep is good, but what we are seeing called is very simplified due to necessity.

This is Geep adjusting to the lack of talent on the OL and a struggling QB. Last year we complained about how HaRo dialed up long developing routes despite the OL not allowing those routes to unfold. This year we complain about how simple the offense looks. The root cause is the OL. This year, Kap seems to have extreme tunnel vision so that compounds the problem. I get that the offense is poorly ranked and can't score worth a lick, but the emphasis, to me, is on the players. Geep has his hands tied.

That's exactly what I'm sayin'.

Hey Marvin..

We should saying.. You've fired! Why are you involved with Seahawks forums. You gave with Seahawks forums fans about discuss. They are better than us.

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by thl408:
Some say we can't assess Kap because he has no OL to allow him to work. I think this "excuse" applies more so to Geep. He has no OL to allow him to dial up more elaborate route combinations, a QB that can't spot open WRs, and the injured #1WR and #1 RB. Not saying Geep is good, but what we are seeing called is very simplified due to necessity.

This is Geep adjusting to the lack of talent on the OL and a struggling QB. Last year we complained about how HaRo dialed up long developing routes despite the OL not allowing those routes to unfold. This year we complain about how simple the offense looks. The root cause is the OL. This year, Kap seems to have extreme tunnel vision so that compounds the problem. I get that the offense is poorly ranked and can't score worth a lick, but the emphasis, to me, is on the players. Geep has his hands tied.

How so? Geep has never been better than a bad OC if you look at his past. Kaep has at one point been a above average QB who had performed in big games. I'm confused how Geep gets a pass and Kaep doesn't. Either neither does or Kaep does and Geep doesn't.

All the factors contributing to the anemic offense blend together. But the ones that leap out to me is Kap having tunnel vision, and the piss poor pass/run blocking. Let me know if you disagree with those two weaknesses I mentioned. So what does an OC do to account for these two weaknesses? He calls simple route combinations that are easier to defend.

What is it that you would like to see more of? Please don't say 'slants and screens'.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by sacniner:
Agree on the Chryst point. He isn't a premiere OC, but damn, how do you succeed with this? How much can you simplify an offense in the NFL? WTF is he supposed to do? And no, the head coach can't help him because he doesn't' know s**t.

Some say we can't assess Kap because he has no OL to allow him to work. I think this "excuse" applies more so to Geep. He has no OL to allow him to dial up more elaborate route combinations, a QB that can't spot open WRs, and the injured #1WR and #1 RB. Not saying Geep is good, but what we are seeing called is very simplified due to necessity.

This is Geep adjusting to the lack of talent on the OL and a struggling QB. Last year we complained about how HaRo dialed up long developing routes despite the OL not allowing those routes to unfold. This year we complain about how simple the offense looks. The root cause is the OL. This year, Kap seems to have extreme tunnel vision so that compounds the problem. I get that the offense is poorly ranked and can't score worth a lick, but the emphasis, to me, is on the players. Geep has his hands tied.

As they always say, "it all starts in the trenches." I fully agree that because the line is playing so poorly, it is severely affecting Kap. So much so that I'm not sure Kap will be a fully functioning QB again. He seems mentally out of it now.

I don't think for a second that Kap has all of a sudden lost all his ability. He has shown he can go through reads (albeit not as quickly as I would like) and make great throws. But I do think his time in SF is probably at its end. The guy needs a change of scenery to clear his head, and perhaps sit on the bench for a year or so. Right now we're seeing what happens when a QB is constantly under fire and doesn't trust anything going on with a play.

Originally posted by Black24Razor:
At this point what does Gabbert bring to the table with this O-Line? Any QB is going to get killed back there.

I think people forgot what Gabbert looked like against a better oline. They also forgot about the scouting report on him. He is not good under pressure. A trainwreck, really. So, you start Gabbert behind the Oline. How does this help the team in any way? We know Gabbert is not a starter. He simply is not. So the worst thing that can happen is he starts a few games, wins...and the staff keeps their jobs because the "problem" was Kaep all along. Then we see later that Gabbert isn't the guy, staff is fired mid season and plans to rebuild get pushed back.

The other scenario is Gabbert is complete trash or gets hurt and they have to trot out the guy with no confidence.

The best thing to do is replace Devey and Pears with anyone, leave Kaep in...lose games, evaluate, start from complete scratch next year after you do a complete house cleaning.

Trade what you are not going forward with. Including Kaep, VD, Boldin, etc. can the entire staff at bye week. Can Baalke. Hire consultants for football operation. Lets get some good talent at draft with all the picks. Look forward. QB? Lets get Glennon for this year and draft one in 2016.