RedZone Offense

yep.

in red zone, the field condenses and therefore less space. if the defense plays zone, there is much less space for holes to open. thl or jonnydel may correct me, but I dont think you can do hi/lo concepts inside 10 yards, simply because there isnt enough separation between the 2

you have to have a qb that is 1)aware of the pocket 2)makes quick decisions 3) can make a short precise throw 4)can make a super quick throw with short release
5) can make a great fade 6) can make an anticipation throw before the play breaks down

or you have to have a power run game that most teams cant stop even if they know its coming up the gut.

currently we dont have a super scary run game in getting short yardage. to be honest, we never did under harbaugh.

kap is on the come up, but many of those qb traits are areas he still can definitely work a lot on. red zone is an area where a strong arm doesnt really help that much unless youre threading a perfect needle, which is pretty risky to start with. ironically we had the same problem when alex was the qb, but for different reasons.

Originally posted by jays9ers:
Why does our red zone offense suck so bad? It's been like this for years and doesn't look like it's getting any better this season. We didn't trust Alex in the red zone and now we don't trust Kap. Well piece together beautiful drives only to stall inside the 20's.. How the heck do we fix these issues once and for all?

This looks like a job for All22 Man...or men (thl408 and JonnyDel).

Looking at the red zone trips in the Steelers game:

Trip #1: Key holding penalty backs 'em up to 1st and Goal from the 20. They try a few screens to beat the pash rush but the execution is lacking + Steelers make solid plays against them. Kick the FG on 4th down and forever for goal, which was the correct choice.

Trip #2: By the time this trip occurs it is the 3rd quarter and it is 29-3. This is the trip with the power run formations that failed because of poor blocking / successful penetration by Steelers DL. It would also have been perhaps a more reasonable series of calls if it was Hyde as RB instead of Davis. Even then because of the score they go for it on 4th down, and Kaep delivers the pass to Miller who fails to complete the catch to the ground.

Trip #3: Learning from the failure of the last trip this time they spread the defense out with multiple receivers. Even with this the execution is flawed and it takes another 4th and Goal attempt to get the TD to Boldin.

Trip #4: With the game well out of reach at this point in the 4th quarter the play calls are more in line with Trip #3. Again on 4th and Goal Kap scrambles and comes up just short of the end zone on the review.


Overall, 10 points out of 4 RZ trips is not gonna win you many games. However, it's worth noting a couple things:

1.Chryst didn't try the power running again after Trip #2 failed. That's a good sign that he does make in game adjustments.

2. With a 20+ point deficit in the 2nd half the team always went for it on 4th down (even earlier in the drives) and didn't foolishly settle for FGs. While we see this as obvious, I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches go potato and kick FGs when down 20+ points in the 3rd/4th quarters. Glad to see we have coaches who recognize that FGs at that point are wastes of drives.

3. Aside from Trip #2, the play calling was far less concerning than the execution by the players. I'm actually in total agreement with the screen pass plays on Trip #1 since with 1st and Goal from the 20 you want to try and cut that in half on 1st and/or 2nd down. However I would have also liked at least one shot in the the end zone on this series, too. Still - penalties are drive killers.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jays9ers:

Why does our red zone offense suck so bad? It's been like this for years and doesn't look like it's getting any better this season. We didn't trust Alex in the red zone and now we don't trust Kap. Well piece together beautiful drives only to stall inside the 20's.. How the heck do we fix these issues once and for all?

This looks like a job for All22 Man...or men (thl408 and JonnyDel).

Someone call these guys asap! This atrocious red zone offense has got to get better eventually right?

On one of the drive we came up empty Miller dropped the TD so that hurt on another Kap had a great chance on another drive but didn't see Celek standing just inside the endzone wide open and threw it away.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
On one of the drive we came up empty Miller dropped the TD so that hurt on another Kap had a great chance on another drive but didn't see Celek standing just inside the endzone wide open and threw it away.

we cant afford to make mistakes like that, especially if the defense is struggling , need our defense to keep us in the game and the offense to find more balance and stop leaving points on the field

Originally posted by captveg:
Looking at the red zone trips in the Steelers game:

Trip #1: Key holding penalty backs 'em up to 1st and Goal from the 20. They try a few screens to beat the pash rush but the execution is lacking + Steelers make solid plays against them. Kick the FG on 4th down and forever for goal, which was the correct choice.

Trip #2: By the time this trip occurs it is the 3rd quarter and it is 29-3. This is the trip with the power run formations that failed because of poor blocking / successful penetration by Steelers DL. It would also have been perhaps a more reasonable series of calls if it was Hyde as RB instead of Davis. Even then because of the score they go for it on 4th down, and Kaep delivers the pass to Miller who fails to complete the catch to the ground.

Trip #3: Learning from the failure of the last trip this time they spread the defense out with multiple receivers. Even with this the execution is flawed and it takes another 4th and Goal attempt to get the TD to Boldin.

Trip #4: With the game well out of reach at this point in the 4th quarter the play calls are more in line with Trip #3. Again on 4th and Goal Kap scrambles and comes up just short of the end zone on the review.


Overall, 10 points out of 4 RZ trips is not gonna win you many games. However, it's worth noting a couple things:

1.Chryst didn't try the power running again after Trip #2 failed. That's a good sign that he does make in game adjustments.

2. With a 20+ point deficit in the 2nd half the team always went for it on 4th down (even earlier in the drives) and didn't foolishly settle for FGs. While we see this as obvious, I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches go potato and kick FGs when down 20+ points in the 3rd/4th quarters. Glad to see we have coaches who recognize that FGs at that point are wastes of drives.

3. Aside from Trip #2, the play calling was far less concerning than the execution by the players. I'm actually in total agreement with the screen pass plays on Trip #1 since with 1st and Goal from the 20 you want to try and cut that in half on 1st and/or 2nd down. However I would have also liked at least one shot in the the end zone on this series, too. Still - penalties are drive killers.

This is great context. Would love to read the Vikings game as well. Nicely done.

As to the bolded, this has ALWAYS been a huge issue for us. We rarely pass into the EZ save for those effing fade routes. They have GOT to work on that. With CK in shotgun and his height and quick-release and arm strength, he should have no issues finding receivers in the middle of the EZ. We have a tendency to attack only the edges. Remember the crossing routes to Celek in pre season? We need to bring those back once inside the RZ (esp. from the 15-20 yard area).

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
in red zone, the field condenses and therefore less space. if the defense plays zone, there is much less space for holes to open. thl or jonnydel may correct me, but I dont think you can do hi/lo concepts inside 10 yards, simply because there isnt enough separation between the 2

you have to have a qb that is 1)aware of the pocket 2)makes quick decisions 3) can make a short precise throw 4)can make a super quick throw with short release
5) can make a great fade 6) can make an anticipation throw before the play breaks down

or you have to have a power run game that most teams cant stop even if they know its coming up the gut.

currently we dont have a super scary run game in getting short yardage. to be honest, we never did under harbaugh.

kap is on the come up, but many of those qb traits are areas he still can definitely work a lot on. red zone is an area where a strong arm doesnt really help that much unless youre threading a perfect needle, which is pretty risky to start with. ironically we had the same problem when alex was the qb, but for different reasons.

That's an excellent point. There was one play in particular, in the redzone, where we tried a spot concept on one side of the field and a "levels" hi/lo on the backside with Boldin and TS. The "levels" was effectively defeated because it was in the red zone. The 2nd tier DB played underneath the hi route, but wasn't defeated because he used the back of the endzone as another defender, there was no room to get the throw in.

If we throw out the fades to the right side of the end zone we will be better in the red zone.

If Ck can get down a good "fade" throw in the endzone, we'd be money a lot. Think of how many times that throw is what gets the TD - you saw Tom do it to Pitt twice. We see it 100 times a year. Often, because if you condense the set, and split one guy out wide, you're 1-1. We tried this 3-4 times with Boldin and didn't hit on any of them. One play in particular, reminded me WAY too much of the 2012 SB. Pitt brought an all out blitz, 1-1's across the board, and CK threw the fade, but it was no where close to catchable. We have got to start hitting this play, or our redzone offense will continue to smell like a compost pile. This is where having a tall, big bodied receiver who can go "high point" the ball would be extremely valuable. VD isn't like Gronk, in that, Gronk is taller and has gorilla arms, his standing reach is nearly 10 ft, so VD aint the guy. It'd be interested to see if they let DeAndrew White give it a try. I don't have his measureables, but on film, he looks like he's taller with good length.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
If we throw out the fades to the right side of the end zone we will be better in the red zone.

Boldin needs to bully CBs in these situations

Jonnydel, and Bell? Pretty tall and extra long kitchen table reach.

Originally posted by NCommand:

This is great context. Would love to read the Vikings game as well. Nicely done.

As to the bolded, this has ALWAYS been a huge issue for us. We rarely pass into the EZ save for those effing fade routes. They have GOT to work on that. With CK in shotgun and his height and quick-release and arm strength, he should have no issues finding receivers in the middle of the EZ. We have a tendency to attack only the edges. Remember the crossing routes to Celek in pre season? We need to bring those back once inside the RZ (esp. from the 15-20 yard area).

We really do need to bust out some variations of these. Shallow cross is s great redzone play. Actually the primary in it is the hook over the center. For example here were all the ways the 1994 squad ran shallow cross:

We have a dual threat QB, why not use him in the red zone. Let Kaep roll out and pressure the defense by pressing the LOS?