State of the Team...Good?

Love the optimism. Wish I felt the same way. Biggest challenge will be fortifying the O line. We gonna have scrubs on 3/5ths of the line. I mostly agree about the secondary, not a huge loss there. Crabs leaving was addition by subtraction. Don't know how you figure Moody and Wilhoite replace Willis. Willis is a HOFer. Appreciate the optimism, I'll try adopting some. Let's just wait and see what we do on the field before calling it a wash. Good post.

Appreciate the honesty. I had the same reaction, I honestly didn't believe it... Totally un-expected after all the reports of his hard work and attitude. Just another blow to the fans... I know the team says they are moving on and next man up, but I don't know how those guys are going to compete for a Super Bowl or even another 8-8 season after all the losses and turnover. Crazy man, just crazy.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Ha.

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Thank you!

We're in re-building mode, now. We have to fortify the OL, DL, OLB, ILB, DB. We took maybe a 5-year step backwards, after all the recent turnover.

Originally posted by mayo49:
We're in re-building mode, now. We have to fortify the OL, DL, OLB, ILB, DB. We took maybe a 5-year step backwards, after all the recent turnover.

Five year setback? You cannot be serious.
There are two solid starters on the OLine as it is...with coaching and development of Thomas/Martin/Kilgore, we should finish the season with three or four solid starters. And so according to your illogic it will take 4 more years to solidify one position on OLine....

Our DL is one of the deepest in the NFL not sure what you mean here. Dorsey, Dockett, Dial, Carradine, Williams, Jerrod-Eddie alone are good enough. Then you throw in TJE, Arik Armsread and even Mike Purcell.

At OLB we should be used to playing without Aldon by now. Yes he's a dynamic pass rusher but none of that matters if he isn't on the field. We haven't had elite production from him since 2013 (In my opinion he hasn't been himself since December 2012)

We are basically right where we were at ILB when we started 2013 without Willis. I don't see how we need 5 years to find a capable starter to play alongside Bowman (we might even have TWO already on the roster). ILB is also a very low-value position in this day and age of outside zone runs, three receiver formations, athletic TEs and slot receiver screens. We'll be fine.

Don't see how we took a step back at DB either. You need continuity at safety and we have that. You need youth and depth at corner and we have that too. The only mystery IMO is how the coaches will use the talent we have which actually exceeds the talent we had this time last year.

Shambles

Originally posted by SaksV:

Originally posted by mayo49:
We're in re-building mode, now. We have to fortify the OL, DL, OLB, ILB, DB. We took maybe a 5-year step backwards, after all the recent turnover.

Five year setback? You cannot be serious.
There are two solid starters on the OLine as it is...with coaching and development of Thomas/Martin/Kilgore, we should finish the season with three or four solid starters. And so according to your illogic it will take 4 more years to solidify one position on OLine....

Our DL is one of the deepest in the NFL not sure what you mean here. Dorsey, Dockett, Dial, Carradine, Williams, Jerrod-Eddie alone are good enough. Then you throw in TJE, Arik Armsread and even Mike Purcell.

At OLB we should be used to playing without Aldon by now. Yes he's a dynamic pass rusher but none of that matters if he isn't on the field. We haven't had elite production from him since 2013 (In my opinion he hasn't been himself since December 2012)

We are basically right where we were at ILB when we started 2013 without Willis. I don't see how we need 5 years to find a capable starter to play alongside Bowman (we might even have TWO already on the roster). ILB is also a very low-value position in this day and age of outside zone runs, three receiver formations, athletic TEs and slot receiver screens. We'll be fine.

Don't see how we took a step back at DB either. You need continuity at safety and we have that. You need youth and depth at corner and we have that too. The only mystery IMO is how the coaches will use the talent we have which actually exceeds the talent we had this time last year.

Well, maybe 3-year step back.

Originally posted by VANiner:
I will preface my post by saying that I am generally an optimist when it comes to the 9ers. Sometimes, I probably can be grouped into the "homer" category. Usually, I have a fairly logical explanation for my "half is glass full" stance" I have to admit...today at about 12:00 EDT, I really had a feeling of dejection and overwhelming dread for the upcoming season. I'm not making this an Aldon Smith thread, but F***, that dude's mistake really made me take a step back and look now at what we have lost since last season and what we have in place to try to rectify what has been a basic dynamiting of the team we have come to know over the past few seasons.

Willis - Cannot replace his leadership, but Wilhoite and Moody can certainly replace his production over the past two years. If Bowman is 90% of what he was in 2013, then our ILB position will be as strong, if not stronger, than last year. Sit back if he is 100%.

J. Smith/R. Mac- The days of J. Smith and R. MacDonald working 90% of the snaps are over. We'll now go to a more logical rotation of Docket, Dorsey, Dial, Carradine, Armstead and TJE to fill the void. I always thought more rotation was needed and we will see it big time this year.

Gore - I will never say anything bad about Frank. I wish him luck and hope he prospers in IND. That said, I have absolutely no problem with the three-headed attack of Hyde/Bush/Hunter. That is a solid group that would match up with 85-90% of the backfields in the league.

Crabtree - I loved him while he was here because of his hands, but he never made that step to become a receiver that could take over a game. Crabtree and Boldin together were like having two left hands. Boldin and T. Smith make a dynamic group that should be much more productive.

Iupati/A. Davis - First, let's get over Iupati. He was a great road mauler and poor pass protector that was never going to be signed long term. Interior run blocking (Martin/Thomas) is much easier to replace than pass protection and both of the new guys are at least as good as Iupati in passprotection. Now, A. Davis' unexpected retirement does leave a legitimate question mark as I know nothing about Pears beyond what Webzoner's posts say about him sucking. I have read that his days as a RT were much more successful than his days as a G (for which he was so demonized for last year).

Cox/Culliver - Ok, let's stop acting like we lost our two starting corners. Cox was replacing Brock (still starting on the team) and Culliver entered his first year as a starter last year. Would any of you paid Culliver 40M like the Redskins did? Between Brock and the draftees from last year (Johnson, Acker, Reaser), this position should not take any step backward at all. In fact, I project stronger CB play this year.

Finally, A. Smith - I will say that the Aldon Smith news of today was like a punch to the gut. Have we not already dealt with enough personnel angst for one off-season? However, after digesting this latest 9ers joke of the week, I realized something. I have been spinning my brain how we could possibly utilize the talent we have at the OLB position without leaving someone on the sideline for the sake of doing so. Smith, Brooks, Lynch, Herold...where do you get them all in? I admit losing the most accomplished and talented of the bunch today does not make the group better as a whole, but our remaining players at the position are walking in with tons of potential.

I'm not saying that we are without flaws or question marks, but in all honesty, after looking at the turnover in which basically every talking head and media outlet have anointed us to be the bottom of the barrel in the NFC West, are we really in that bad of shape?

Here'es where the eternal optimist and periodic "homer" says hellz no. One month before the season starts is not a time for the fans and faithful to bail and pull the "woe is me" card. Slap your friends in the face and tell them that this season is not lost (yet). Go Niners.

I can appreciate your optimism, however my feelings of dejection has come and won't pass until I see the product produce on the field. The mighty have fallen from grace quickly and it will be some time before we can climb back up that mountain. This league is built around "What have you done lately" attitude. When you look at what the Niners have done this off season it makes most fans fearful for the season to come. Right now Niners are hanging their hat on potential! Every one in the league has "potential" for Pete sake. So until I see the new coach and starters produce I shall keep my optimism down and root and hope for the best quietly. By quietly I am meaning I talk s**t to my friends and co-workers. In fact they are talking mad sh!t. I live in Boise, ID so most everyone here are Seachicken fans! I hope these players at least meet their potential if not exceed. But it's hard to be optimistic when we have proven nothing. Thanks for the read though!

I think Aldon Smith made our pass rush very dangerous, but we still have some very capable players who can get to the QB. My worries about aldon's game was the few times he dropped into coverage, or taking down a RB he seemed like he let others initiate the tackle while he spectated, I witnessed it on more than one occassion, thanks to NFL rewind. Both Aaron Lynch and Ahmad Brooks could sack the QB, grear at taking on a RB or just swatting down throws. Aldon excelled at pass rushing but lacked the other things that brooks and lynch could do.

Originally posted by VANiner:

I will preface my post by saying that I am generally an optimist when it comes to the 9ers. Sometimes, I probably can be grouped into the "homer" category. Usually, I have a fairly logical explanation for my "half is glass full" stance" I have to admit...today at about 12:00 EDT, I really had a feeling of dejection and overwhelming dread for the upcoming season. I'm not making this an Aldon Smith thread, but F***, that dude's mistake really made me take a step back and look now at what we have lost since last season and what we have in place to try to rectify what has been a basic dynamiting of the team we have come to know over the past few seasons.

Willis - Cannot replace his leadership, but Wilhoite and Moody can certainly replace his production over the past two years. If Bowman is 90% of what he was in 2013, then our ILB position will be as strong, if not stronger, than last year. Sit back if he is 100%.

J. Smith/R. Mac- The days of J. Smith and R. MacDonald working 90% of the snaps are over. We'll now go to a more logical rotation of Docket, Dorsey, Dial, Carradine, Armstead and TJE to fill the void. I always thought more rotation was needed and we will see it big time this year.

Gore - I will never say anything bad about Frank. I wish him luck and hope he prospers in IND. That said, I have absolutely no problem with the three-headed attack of Hyde/Bush/Hunter. That is a solid group that would match up with 85-90% of the backfields in the league.

Crabtree - I loved him while he was here because of his hands, but he never made that step to become a receiver that could take over a game. Crabtree and Boldin together were like having two left hands. Boldin and T. Smith make a dynamic group that should be much more productive.

Iupati/A. Davis - First, let's get over Iupati. He was a great road mauler and poor pass protector that was never going to be signed long term. Interior run blocking (Martin/Thomas) is much easier to replace than pass protection and both of the new guys are at least as good as Iupati in passprotection. Now, A. Davis' unexpected retirement does leave a legitimate question mark as I know nothing about Pears beyond what Webzoner's posts say about him sucking. I have read that his days as a RT were much more successful than his days as a G (for which he was so demonized for last year).

Cox/Culliver - Ok, let's stop acting like we lost our two starting corners. Cox was replacing Brock (still starting on the team) and Culliver entered his first year as a starter last year. Would any of you paid Culliver 40M like the Redskins did? Between Brock and the draftees from last year (Johnson, Acker, Reaser), this position should not take any step backward at all. In fact, I project stronger CB play this year.

Finally, A. Smith - I will say that the Aldon Smith news of today was like a punch to the gut. Have we not already dealt with enough personnel angst for one off-season? However, after digesting this latest 9ers joke of the week, I realized something. I have been spinning my brain how we could possibly utilize the talent we have at the OLB position without leaving someone on the sideline for the sake of doing so. Smith, Brooks, Lynch, Herold...where do you get them all in? I admit losing the most accomplished and talented of the bunch today does not make the group better as a whole, but our remaining players at the position are walking in with tons of potential.

I'm not saying that we are without flaws or question marks, but in all honesty, after looking at the turnover in which basically every talking head and media outlet have anointed us to be the bottom of the barrel in the NFC West, are we really in that bad of shape?

Here'es where the eternal optimist and periodic "homer" says hellz no. One month before the season starts is not a time for the fans and faithful to bail and pull the "woe is me" card. Slap your friends in the face and tell them that this season is not lost (yet). Go Niners.

Good post, I dont agree with our CB or offenise line problem, but still good post

Originally posted by English:
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About effing time!

S/h posted here:

After 24 hours to go through the 5 stages of coping with death, I'm already at the acceptance stage. Why? B/c this is not a surprise to me...or the FO...or anyone inside the organization and fan base. We ALL knew this was a very real probability; so much in fact, the FO had already reworked his deal in good faith and drafted Eli Harold and retained Brooks.

The loss of A.Davis and A.Smith hurt...not just b/c of their talent level but b/c of their timing. They hurt the team badly...their teammates...and coaches. They chose not to be 49ers anymore. Period. But at the end of the day, what matters is who IS here. And Bethea said it best...this is a "family" and "next-man-up." When you look at the roster, we still have the exact same questions we did before Aldon left. In the recent past, we've seen countless other teams get the most out of depleted rosters or position groups. We've seen the same 22 on our team, game in, game out, vanilla...which lead to burnouts. The real shift we're seeing here is the shift in coaching and personnel usage.

Gone are the days of wasted talent sitting on the bench. The entire 53 is going to be used now. We're going to see heavy rotations now along the DL, OLB's, Tartt for an ILB, WR's, RB's, FB's, ST's, etc. We'll see lots of base, DIME and NICKEL packages; lots of packages on offense. The OL incorporating both power and a ZBS now. As to the roster, we still have the same exact questions but with all the drama and recent events, it's over now. Done.

But we have time. We have time to figure out the best combination along the OL. We have time to figure out who's best suited for the TED...Wilhoite or Moody? We have time to develop the ILB depth. Skov is playing well and we haven't even heard much about Wheeler, who may have the most talent/experience of all of them. And of course, Bowman is already looking unstoppable. CB? Obviously, even this early, Brock and Wright have locked down those two outside CB spots and we all know the young talent behind them is hungry and developing quickly. As to OLB? Aldon was a special player and person and everyone is genuinely very worried for him and will continue to support him as part of the 49er family.

So, next-man-up. Brooks has already been a camp MVP and is unstoppable right now. He's been an every down player for us for years and our most clutch defender by far. He didn't work his ass off this off season (diet/conditioning/strength) to come in and split time with Lynch. And now Lynch is close to being 100% healthy now ("Opportunity!"). And the other MVP thus far has been Eli Harold. Whether it's Brooks at the WILL now (he played a lot there last year while Aldon was out 9 games) and Lynch at the SAM, we were going to bring Eli along slowly anyhow...the same exact way we worked Aldon in on pass rushing down packages. If he develops even more quickly and continues his dominance in TC, it could get harder and harder to keep this guy off the field which bodes well for the common 3-man rotation we've used over the years. Lemonier is already a very good ST player and if he also continues his upswing, he could earn some additional relief for these three ala Skuta.

Where we're going to see the real difference is with Mangini and his scheme. I'm sure he had a lot of plans for Aldon; moving him around, creating mismatches, etc. But again, it's early...he'll have time to adjust the scheme and try out combinations all through TC and during pre season games. This defense is no longer reliant on just one dominant pass rusher. This is a team-oriented pressure defense now. Already we're hearing reports of Mangini dialing up pressure with everyone...Bethea, CB's, inside pass rushers such as Tank and Dockett, moving the OLB's around, etc. While Aldon is a very special piece lost, the scheme may very well compensate for that loss and will certainly, be significantly more flexible. Last year with Aldon, we as a team we're 21st in sacks with only 36...Seattle was 20th with 37. This will still be a defense that will pattern match and throw out exotic coverage schemes. It is now a defense that will provide pre and post-snap confusion for QB's. It's now a defense that will run the exact same play...but have different personnel in different positions that will throw off OC's.

Anyhow, I know several fans have already jumped off the bridge but I caution the rest of the Faithful to hold ground. This team is still not devoid of talent but it WILL require the coaches to tap into that depth/bench and scheme more flexibly.

The silver lining to all of this is that this is a clean slate and a lot of young players will finally get real shots to become starters, others are coming back hungry from injuries and are now poised to not only make the 53 but carve out their roles and finally, and others are playing in their contract years. Adversity can do one of two things to a "family." It either rips it apart (see 2014) or galvanizes it.

Keep faith Faithful.

We only have a few things to sort out before the first game...just like any other team right now. No matter what happens though, I'm thoroughly going to enjoy watching every snap and watching this young team grow and develop into the new generation of 49ers.

Originally posted by Constantine:
Good post, I dont agree with our CB or offenise line problem, but still good post

Agreed. Still questions at CB but it sure seems like Brock and Wright have already clearly established themselves as 1 and 2 with a ton of developing young and hungry talent (and versatile) behind them.

OL is absolutely under the microscope. Most team, even Superbowl champions, end up having at least 2 position groups of concern. We're no different.

On a successful team in the NFL, for every highly touted 1st rounder or big name free agent signing, there are 10 guys who were mid-rounders or FA who just know how to play and have stand out 3 or 4 year peaks once they get a feel for a system and get on the field. My faith in the Niners this season is that we have a solid crew of these players stepping up and becoming the Names we will rue losing when THEY in turn, move on.
Every team in the league reloads every 3-4 years.
I think we're good.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Shambles

My man...don't jump yet. You've been one of our best posters up until yesterday. It's a big hit no doubt...but we'll be alright. 3 legit options there plus Mangini's scheme isn't reliant on JUST one pass rusher from the WILL anymore. He's going to bring it from everyone collectively as needed.