I just realized...(Outside Linebackers)

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
No. The toe might get better.

Since when are we projecting harold as elite performer before his first training camp.

How are we FASTER at ilb.

It's pretty much a push. Bowman's still very fast from what we've heard so far and I'm not sure Willis was still faster in his last couple of years than Wilhoit is right now. He had lost a couple of steps - we all should know that by now.

Like an outfielder in baseball a MLB can hide the fact he has lost a step by always making the right read. When your first step is ALWAYS the right one, you will appear a lot faster on film because you never put yourself in a bad position. Willis did this a lot the last two years.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Like an outfielder in baseball a MLB can hide the fact he has lost a step by always making the right read. When your first step is ALWAYS the right one, you will appear a lot faster on film because you never put yourself in a bad position. Willis did this a lot the last two years.

True. And I guess some fans haven't noticed, but Wilhoit has been very solid stepping in for both Bowman and Willis. He's a very good run stopper.

Originally posted by crake49:
True. And I guess some fans haven't noticed, but Wilhoit has been very solid stepping in for both Bowman and Willis. He's a very good run stopper.

VERY good call.

i've mentioned him quite a few times myself.

SMART move resigning him.

Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

We already saw it last year...Cowboy played 13 games (60% of the defensive snaps) and RayMac was canned half-way through the season. We had to move our 6'6" LDE in Dial to NT (no easy task), use TJE as a LDE (average player at best and that is being kind) and Carradine had to finish the year (final last 3 games) at RDE for Justin. How did we do? Finished 7th against the run, overall top 5 defense and #1 in TO's (meaning our secondary got a lot of INT's as well and didn't suffer from the line play).

This year? We have even MORE talent and depth and versatility.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

RayMac?? Quinton Dial is ALREADY playing better than RayMac on the rush. Dockett will be a better pass rusher than RayMac this year. And this D-line is deep. That's not wishful thinking - it's just reality.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:

Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

We already saw it last year...Cowboy played 13 games (60% of the defensive snaps) and RayMac was canned half-way through the season. We had to move our 6'6" LDE in Dial to NT (no easy task), use TJE as a LDE (average player at best and that is being kind) and Carradine had to finish the year (final last 3 games) at RDE for Justin. How did we do? Finished 7th against the run, overall top 5 defense and #1 in TO's (meaning our secondary got a lot of INT's as well and didn't suffer from the line play).

This year? We have even MORE talent and depth and versatility.

the big loss was when Williams went down. Early in the year. our run D really took a hit there. TJ e And dial struggled in the middle that was with Justin I'm not sure what happened at the end of the year but I think that we're going to have a challenge to maintain our degree of effectiveness without Borland Willis and Smith.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

We already saw it last year...Cowboy played 13 games (60% of the defensive snaps) and RayMac was canned half-way through the season. We had to move our 6'6" LDE in Dial to NT (no easy task), use TJE as a LDE (average player at best and that is being kind) and Carradine had to finish the year (final last 3 games) at RDE for Justin. How did we do? Finished 7th against the run, overall top 5 defense and #1 in TO's (meaning our secondary got a lot of INT's as well and didn't suffer from the line play).

This year? We have even MORE talent and depth and versatility.

the big loss was when Williams went down. Early in the year. our run D really took a hit there. TJ e And dial struggled in the middle that was with Justin I'm not sure what happened at the end of the year but I think that we're going to have a challenge to maintain our degree of effectiveness without Borland Willis and Smith.

He AND Dorsey were huge loses! Agreed!

Also, Dial was an ascending LDE who was playing very well during pre-season 'at' LDE...then, with two major injuries to both our starting NT's, suddenly, he's playing a totally different position (NT) which uses very different tactics and it's even harder for a guy who's 6'6" . Those two injuries had quite the ripple-effect on our defense for sure (not just in personnel but in scheme). And having to start TJE who graded out very poorly? The huge turnover at ILB behind them too?

It really is remarkable we finished top 7 against the run. Two things helped though 1) Cross-training and roster depth and 2) Tomsula and the fact this is still a passing league.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

RayMac?? Quinton Dial is ALREADY playing better than RayMac on the rush. Dockett will be a better pass rusher than RayMac this year. And this D-line is deep. That's not wishful thinking - it's just reality.

I don't think RayMac's importance should be judged on his ability to rush the passer. That's not the primary task for a 3-4 DE. RayMac's ability to be a good run stopper is what Dial needs to fulfill. Same with Dorsey replacing Justin at the other DE spot. Stopping the run is one thing all good defenses have in common. If a defense can't do that, everything will suffer in a domino effect: safeties get committed to the box, LBs start biting on playaction, pass rushers can't fire upfield to get after the QB because they are playing the run first. I feel good that Dial and Dorsey can handle the run stopping duties, but that's all it is, a feeling.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

RayMac?? Quinton Dial is ALREADY playing better than RayMac on the rush. Dockett will be a better pass rusher than RayMac this year. And this D-line is deep. That's not wishful thinking - it's just reality.

I don't think RayMac's importance should be judged on his ability to rush the passer. That's not the primary task for a 3-4 DE. RayMac's ability to be a good run stopper is what Dial needs to fulfill. Same with Dorsey replacing Justin at the other DE spot. Stopping the run is one thing all good defenses have in common. If a defense can't do that, everything will suffer in a domino effect: safeties get committed to the box, LBs start biting on playaction, pass rushers can't fire upfield to get after the QB because they are playing the run first. I feel good that Dial and Dorsey can handle the run stopping duties, but that's all it is, a feeling.

thl is probably sick of me piggy-backing on his posts (sorry, it's slow around here this time of year) but he's spot on. IMHO, you'll most likely see Dorsey/AA, Williams and Dial on running base downs and then see the pass rushers in Carradine and Dockett used on more obvious passing downs; even AA (to help occupy two lineman for Aldon/Eli) on passing downs. Mangini just noted his desire for personnel matchups and this would be a terrific way to keep everyone fresh WHILE utilizing their biggest strengths IMHO. Also, the cross-training of sides and positions will be emphasized as well as being able to be interchangeable in roles (i.e. a strong pass rusher will still be required to work hard on run-stopping skills and play some of those downs as well esp. b/c we can't always change personnel packages during games at will).

RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial)
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Wishful thinking. Let's see how good they are without Cowboy and RayMac before we start crowning them.

RayMac?? Quinton Dial is ALREADY playing better than RayMac on the rush. Dockett will be a better pass rusher than RayMac this year. And this D-line is deep. That's not wishful thinking - it's just reality.

I don't think RayMac's importance should be judged on his ability to rush the passer. That's not the primary task for a 3-4 DE. RayMac's ability to be a good run stopper is what Dial needs to fulfill. Same with Dorsey replacing Justin at the other DE spot. Stopping the run is one thing all good defenses have in common. If a defense can't do that, everything will suffer in a domino effect: safeties get committed to the box, LBs start biting on playaction, pass rushers can't fire upfield to get after the QB because they are playing the run first. I feel good that Dial and Dorsey can handle the run stopping duties, but that's all it is, a feeling.

This. RayMac had a wicked quick first step that gave him advantage over the linemen especially when pass rushing.

Originally posted by NCommand:
thl is probably sick of me piggy-backing on his posts (sorry, it's slow around here this time of year) but he's spot on. IMHO, you'll most likely see Dorsey/AA, Williams and Dial on running base downs and then see the pass rushers in Carradine and Dockett used on more obvious passing downs; even AA (to help occupy two lineman for Aldon/Eli) on passing downs. Mangini just noted his desire for personnel matchups and this would be a terrific way to keep everyone fresh WHILE utilizing their biggest strengths IMHO. Also, the cross-training of sides and positions will be emphasized as well as being able to be interchangeable in roles (i.e. a strong pass rusher will still be required to work hard on run-stopping skills and play some of those downs as well esp. b/c we can't always change personnel packages during games at will).

RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial)
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett

Hey, all good. I would be surprised if AA can contribute this season, barring an injury. Not because I think he won't be good, but because I like a rotation of Dial/Tank/Dorsey/Dockett and I don't see a rookie cracking that unless he surprises. Is there really room for a 5th DE (nickel DT) in there to get snaps on gameday?

About the OLBs, there won't be defensive snaps for a 5th OLB (Aldon, Lynch, Brooks, someone) so Harold and Lemon could be competing to see who gets dressed. Lemon can play ST so he has that going for him. Really like the OLB position and hope Mangini can put all the talent here to good use.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
thl is probably sick of me piggy-backing on his posts (sorry, it's slow around here this time of year) but he's spot on. IMHO, you'll most likely see Dorsey/AA, Williams and Dial on running base downs and then see the pass rushers in Carradine and Dockett used on more obvious passing downs; even AA (to help occupy two lineman for Aldon/Eli) on passing downs. Mangini just noted his desire for personnel matchups and this would be a terrific way to keep everyone fresh WHILE utilizing their biggest strengths IMHO. Also, the cross-training of sides and positions will be emphasized as well as being able to be interchangeable in roles (i.e. a strong pass rusher will still be required to work hard on run-stopping skills and play some of those downs as well esp. b/c we can't always change personnel packages during games at will).

RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial)
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett

Hey, all good. I would be surprised if AA can contribute this season, barring an injury. Not because I think he won't be good, but because I like a rotation of Dial/Tank/Dorsey/Dockett and I don't see a rookie cracking that unless he surprises. Is there really room for a 5th DE (nickel DT) in there to get snaps on gameday?

About the OLBs, there won't be defensive snaps for a 5th OLB (Aldon, Lynch, Brooks, someone) so Harold and Lemon could be competing to see who gets dressed. Lemon can play ST so he has that going for him. Really like the OLB position and hope Mangini can put all the talent here to good use.

Yeah, honestly, after looking at my 53, it's very possible AA may not even be activated for the 46 except for certain games/situations. Then again, I hear he could probably add ST help on FG/point-after block teams? We are so deep along the front 7, you are right...even that 5th OLB may not even be activated a lot. AA and Harold are in terrific shape to develop slowly and be slowly integrated into more and more personnel packages as needed. That's a great position to be in (for the team and them personally).

Not worried at all about OLB. Lots of talent and lots of depth. I've said it before and will say it again, I firmly believe that this will be Brooks last season in SF. Too big a contract and having Lynch, Harold and Lemonier will make him expendable.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
No. The toe might get better.

Since when are we projecting harold as elite performer before his first training camp.

How are we FASTER at ilb.

Harold is said to have the best first step to come out of college in years. He is also extremely fast for a LB--4.6. Whether he is an NFL level talent will take time, but I can see the reason some are excited about the guy. He could become a threat in late game situations when the other team needs to pass.

From the NFL Combine writeup:

"Harold put on a spectacular showing on the turf Sunday. The 6-3, 247-pounder clocked a 4.60 in the 40 and posted remarkable times in the shuttle drills (7.07 in the three-cone, 4.16 in the 20-yard and 11.81 in the 60-yard). In addition, Harold recorded a 35-inch vertical jump and a 123-inch broad jump, suggesting that he is an explosive athlete with the physical tools to develop into a consistent pass-rushing threat off the edge."