Do you Agree with Vernon Davis? . . . . .

Originally posted by thl408:

Some of that stems from Roman's effort to simplify the offense. But Rich Gannon, the former MVP, said it really starts with Kaepernick.

"To me, he just doesn't look comfortable in the offense. ... People say, 'Fire Greg Roman! What are they doing? It's vanilla,' " the former Raiders star told Sirius XM Radio. "Why do you think they're scaling it back? That's what the fans out there need to understand.

"What, do you think the coordinator got dumb overnight? You think Jim Harbaugh doesn't know what he's doing? The quarterback's not making the right decisions. The quarterback isn't making the right checks. So what are we going to do? We're going to make it more simplistic. We're going to have a little bit less volume in the offense."

Greg Cosell, a senior producer at NFL Films, cited a specific example against the St. Louis Rams earlier this season. He said that on third-and-short, the Rams defense played a Cover-Zero -- meaning no safety in the middle of the field. In his film review, he saw Roman had a play call to beat that defense with a post route for (Michael) Crabtree to run through a "wide-open middle."

"(Kaepernick) needs to know right away that that's where the ball should be thrown," Cosell told KNBR radio. "But he was totally focused on (Anquan) Boldin, who was double-covered. No recognition. And Kaepernick just dropped his eyes and ran into a sack. Plays like that are what concern you over time, because that's pre-snap recognition."
http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_27069768/49ers-offensive-woes-roman-or-kaepernick-blame

Here's that play Cossell mentioned and I think it's a bit harsh of an assessment even though I mentioned the same thing in the original cut up - that Kap should have targeted the Post.
When a QB sees cover 0, he can do a few things, two of which are: throw the hot route (quickest developing route), or attack the middle of the field because there's no safety. The second option requires some faith in the protection for blitz pickups to be made. I'm not going to fault Kap for not having faith in his Oline.


Kap is looking at Boldin. The Rams smartly bracket Boldin because Boldin is a 3rd down conversion machine.


4th sack of the first half.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/180114-st-louis-rams-week-coaches-film-analysis/page2/#post21

Anyway, not to make this another Kap thread, and there are actually better examples of Kap not making the optimal decision on a passing play. But when a QB feels rushed, he's more likely to look to the simplest outlet he has, in this case Boldin's quick In route. What if Kap actually had some confidence in his OLine? You can be sure he's looking for the big play.

but vd had to pretty good numbers with kap as QB the previous year.

Originally posted by Disp:
This PFF article from today does kinda support his thoughts. He ran the second most corner routes in the league; more than every single WR. Over 10% of Davis's routes were corner routes, the highest in the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/15/route-breakdown-corner-route/

Thanks for posting that. The reasons he ran so many Corner routes is because he's a TE so he lines up near the OLine (not out wide), he's the only deep threat, and all the 49er opponents play with a deep safety in the middle of the field (cover1, cover3). Only occasionally did the 49ers see a cover 2 shell. So if he's going to stretch the field for the other WRs, it's not by running down the middle of the field where there's a safety. It's by running towards the sideline, hence the Corner route. And even then, the safety in the middle of the field is very mindful of where VD is going.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Disp:
This PFF article from today does kinda support his thoughts. He ran the second most corner routes in the league; more than every single WR. Over 10% of Davis's routes were corner routes, the highest in the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/15/route-breakdown-corner-route/

Thanks for posting that. The reasons he ran so many Corner routes is because he's a TE so he lines up near the OLine (not out wide), he's the only deep threat, and all the 49er opponents play with a deep safety in the middle of the field (cover1, cover3). Only occasionally did the 49ers see a cover 2 shell. So if he's going to stretch the field for the other WRs, it's not by running down the middle of the field where there's a safety. It's by running towards the sideline, hence the Corner route. And even then, the safety in the middle of the field is very mindful of where VD is going.

Thanks for the info, guys.

Is this similar to how VD was used in the past? And if so, what best explains his decline in production this year?

There's a reason why we had some of the most talented teams in the NFL the past 5 years but were always ranked near the bottom on offense. Coaches got fired for a reason.
There's a reason why every RB we brought in is dynamic in catching the ball also. There's a reason why we switched to a zone blocking scheme.

The talent on this offense was going to waste on a very predictable scheme. It fooled College players and, for a little while, fooled NFL teams. We seriously won game due to the sheer power of this team and its defense.

Looking forward to an offense that can take a rookie receiver who is still learning, put him in a game for a couple plays and let him do what he can do well without thinking. That's what we did with TO. We put him in for quick screens and easy routes. Da f**k Roman and Harbaugh would refuse to do even that.

Talent will definitely be used this year.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Disp:

This PFF article from today does kinda support his thoughts. He ran the second most corner routes in the league; more than every single WR. Over 10% of Davis's routes were corner routes, the highest in the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/15/route-breakdown-corner-route/

Thanks for posting that. The reasons he ran so many Corner routes is because he's a TE so he lines up near the OLine (not out wide), he's the only deep threat, and all the 49er opponents play with a deep safety in the middle of the field (cover1, cover3). Only occasionally did the 49ers see a cover 2 shell. So if he's going to stretch the field for the other WRs, it's not by running down the middle of the field where there's a safety. It's by running towards the sideline, hence the Corner route. And even then, the safety in the middle of the field is very mindful of where VD is going.

Thanks for the info, guys.

Is this similar to how VD was used in the past? And if so, what best explains his decline in production this year?

This is very similar to how VD was used in 2013 (all the Corner routes). I'd say his back injury is what messed him up the most. I think his ability to accelerate and sustain blocks was greatly affected by it.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Every bit of this. . .

And a little bit of this:

Some of that stems from Roman's effort to simplify the offense. But Rich Gannon, the former MVP, said it really starts with Kaepernick.

"To me, he just doesn't look comfortable in the offense. ... People say, 'Fire Greg Roman! What are they doing? It's vanilla,' " the former Raiders star told Sirius XM Radio. "Why do you think they're scaling it back? That's what the fans out there need to understand.

"What, do you think the coordinator got dumb overnight? You think Jim Harbaugh doesn't know what he's doing? The quarterback's not making the right decisions. The quarterback isn't making the right checks. So what are we going to do? We're going to make it more simplistic. We're going to have a little bit less volume in the offense."

Greg Cosell, a senior producer at NFL Films, cited a specific example against the St. Louis Rams earlier this season. He said that on third-and-short, the Rams defense played a Cover-Zero -- meaning no safety in the middle of the field. In his film review, he saw Roman had a play call to beat that defense with a post route for (Michael) Crabtree to run through a "wide-open middle."

"(Kaepernick) needs to know right away that that's where the ball should be thrown," Cosell told KNBR radio. "But he was totally focused on (Anquan) Boldin, who was double-covered. No recognition. And Kaepernick just dropped his eyes and ran into a sack. Plays like that are what concern you over time, because that's pre-snap recognition."
http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_27069768/49ers-offensive-woes-roman-or-kaepernick-blame

I saw more than a handful of times where the correct route combination was called to beat the defense and Kap refused to give it a chance. Rather opting to go to the 1v1 matchup he had on the other side of the field. The coaches could have done a lot more to help out Kap like incorporating RBs into the passing game, or rolling him out to avoid having to stay in the pocket so often, but when the Oline can't pass pro and the QB is feeling the effects of it, the offense is going to struggle.

So true. On this I have a bigger criticism of the coaching staff, in particular the philosophy, not just the play-calling. Trying to make Kaep into something he wasn't was the bane of the 49ers offense in 2014. Sure Kaep struggled. But the mismatch of his skill-set vis-a-vis the scheme they were trying to force feed was downright criminal and I dare say irresponsible. And that effected everyone, not just Kaep.

Vernon, however, well. . . . . . .

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Disp:
This PFF article from today does kinda support his thoughts. He ran the second most corner routes in the league; more than every single WR. Over 10% of Davis's routes were corner routes, the highest in the league:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/15/route-breakdown-corner-route/

Thanks for posting that. The reasons he ran so many Corner routes is because he's a TE so he lines up near the OLine (not out wide), he's the only deep threat, and all the 49er opponents play with a deep safety in the middle of the field (cover1, cover3). Only occasionally did the 49ers see a cover 2 shell. So if he's going to stretch the field for the other WRs, it's not by running down the middle of the field where there's a safety. It's by running towards the sideline, hence the Corner route. And even then, the safety in the middle of the field is very mindful of where VD is going.

Thanks for the info, guys.

Is this similar to how VD was used in the past? And if so, what best explains his decline in production this year?

This is very similar to how VD was used in 2013 (all the Corner routes). I'd say his back injury is what messed him up the most. I think his ability to accelerate and sustain blocks was greatly affected by it.

His back was definitely an issue last year. I don't think he possibly could have declined that much from one season to the next. Hopefully he's healed up and ready to become a factor on offense again.

VD is full of it.

The two dudes who skipped camp last year and played poorly are taking the low road.

Originally posted by Joecool:
There's a reason why we had some of the most talented teams in the NFL the past 5 years but were always ranked near the bottom on offense. Coaches got fired for a reason.
There's a reason why every RB we brought in is dynamic in catching the ball also. There's a reason why we switched to a zone blocking scheme.

The talent on this offense was going to waste on a very predictable scheme. It fooled College players and, for a little while, fooled NFL teams. We seriously won game due to the sheer power of this team and its defense.

Looking forward to an offense that can take a rookie receiver who is still learning, put him in a game for a couple plays and let him do what he can do well without thinking. That's what we did with TO. We put him in for quick screens and easy routes. Da f**k Roman and Harbaugh would refuse to do even that.

Talent will definitely be used this year.

I certainly hope so. I hope this coaching staff don't try to force feed a scheme on a talent pool that might not suite it, like JH did.

i think everyone is bound and determined to bounce back. i look forward to good things from all of the guys who had down years last year.not to mention it is vital they do so

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
VD is full of it.

The two dudes who skipped camp last year and played poorly are taking the low road.

So much this lol. Two guys we needed, who played like s**t, are doing the most chirpin.

Lol what about not showing up in the offseason

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

VD is full of it.

The two dudes who skipped camp last year and played poorly are taking the low road.

This.

Yes. I too love Jamba Juice.