Coaching Styles: Harbaugh vs. Tomsula

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
I don't necessarily agree having the press able to roam around being a positive.

Letting the press roam around may be positive or it may negative, but without a doubt letting the press roam around is different.

Yes...keeping KKFC far away may be a good idea but even they are following suit and writing positive reviews. So it's working...shhhhhh!

Tomsula seems willing to throw to the running backs.

Tomsula remembers Roger Craig.

The biggest thing for me, as much as I respected Harbaugh, is the early indication that Tomsula is addressing the systemic flaws that we exhibited for the 4 seasons of Harbaugh. My biggest criticism of JH was how unwilling he was to change what we were doing even when the team we were playing had adjusted and were countering our gameplan.

Beyond that the most damning things for me were the lack of development of drafted players with potential, in particular the WRs and Vance Mcdonald, and the lack of screen plays called for Kap when he was getting killed last season by blitzes. Those things were unacceptable to me from a professional coach who is paid to do better, particularly when the issues were so blatent.

If people are expecting to see the power offense go away, think again. There will be differences in the passing game like more screens and dump offs to the running backs for sure since they are practicing it a lot now, but we will still be a power running team. However the style of running is going to be different to, as we will employ more of a zone blocking with our new OL coach. I also expect it will be simplified, so that we don't get into confusions which led to delay of games.

Defensively, we may blitz more, but Fangio did a great job of not allowing the big play so easily. I know a lot of people thought he didn't allow the young guns more chances and hated it, but there is some logic to that, the D was simple, but required experience, so that players could just play and react. You can't argue with success.

If JH was more flexible about his off. adjustments, he would still be here if he wasn't a loyalist to Roman. If he got more involved and used more of the dump off and screens to the RB he might have gotten more done.

Only time will tell, I just hope GC is not another Jimmy Raye, but a more flexible simpler Roman.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Tons of passes to the RB's alreadyCK passing to "check-downs" including T.Smith
Big-time focus on WR-specific drills to develop young WR's such as Patton (great day from all 3 WR positions) and Jacobs and got several contributions from the UDFA class
Several deep shots taken as well (VD, T.Smith, UDFA's, etc.)

I never cared for our wr coach. There was one year that we was jumping up and down on the table for a wr that we drafted in the 4th round I think that ended being cut that year.

The only good O position coach who did his job was Rathman.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Tons of passes to the RB's alreadyCK passing to "check-downs" including T.Smith
Big-time focus on WR-specific drills to develop young WR's such as Patton (great day from all 3 WR positions) and Jacobs and got several contributions from the UDFA class
Several deep shots taken as well (VD, T.Smith, UDFA's, etc.)

I never cared for our wr coach. There was one year that we was jumping up and down on the table for a wr that we drafted in the 4th round I think that ended being cut that year.

The only good O position coach who did his job was Rathman.

That was Ronald Johnson. From USC. What a waste

Originally posted by WildBill:
If people are expecting to see the power offense go away, think again. There will be differences in the passing game like more screens and dump offs to the running backs for sure since they are practicing it a lot now, but we will still be a power running team. However the style of running is going to be different to, as we will employ more of a zone blocking with our new OL coach. I also expect it will be simplified, so that we don't get into confusions which led to delay of games.

I'm guessing it'll be a power rushing offense more like what Seattle does, run when you can, but utilize all areas of the field, force defenses to cover large swaths of area to keep them off guard, more misdirection plays and better adjustments to teams bringing the house repeatedly.

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
That was Ronald Johnson. From USC. What a waste

It should have been taken as a bad sign that the WR coach pounded the table for a WR he had personally coached in college who then turned out to be a complete bust.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I give Harbaugh a lot of credit for helping us be winners again. That, we can't take away from him. But he didn't operate like Bill Walsh at all. We pretty much didn't see any of the things that we really hoped for. The mannerisms? The efforts to give players chances and PT? No. The WCO? Non-existent. We didn't have much of an identity other than being a power-scheme, I-formation team that eventually mutated into a confused power/shotgun/pistol-half-of-the-time/simplistic offense.

In a nutshell, we were a simple, power running offense who tried to use formation shifts to create confusion in order to give us more opportunities to make plays. Our primitive strategy like trying to spread the defense out when they stacked the box had so little depth to it, that it was easily exposed and became painfully predictable.

After 2 years, teams are going to recognize shifts. After 2 years, teams have already learned how to "adjust to your adjustment". We never kept teams off balance. Most of the time, it seemed our successful or "barely successful" games were when our players individually could outperform our opponents despite ineffective schemes and playcalls (hence a lot of close games). In the NFL, the best coached teams can often beat the ones with superior talent when they can attack your weaknesses properly. The Niners were barely beating bottom feeder teams. With a team that talented, it's hard not to say there had to be some coaching aspect holding them back.

Could not agree more. Just look at the checklist of issues they addressed in week 1 of camp already. They are literally, "checking off the boxes."

I can't express enough how significant that is. Not only to recognize your major flaws but address perfecting them right out of the gate and setting foundation.

Every fan in here including the SuicidePosters have and cab recognize the glaring and predictable issues we had under the HaRomanVic era.

These should be exciting times if you're a real fan of this team.

you said it, "real fan of this team" and not a harbaugh fan.

Originally posted by jrouter4949:
you said it, "real fan of this team" and not a harbaugh fan.

Yeah, I didn't want to discredit what Harbaugh did here but more focus on the fact that if you are real fan of the team, you should be pretty excited about the grocery list of items this new coaching staff is already addressing, right out of the gate! Focusing on just ONE of these issues may have been enough to get us over the hump in the past...and we're working on just about every single one it sounds like:

• Get plays promptly into the huddle; less pre-snap motion. CHECK! "There's a definite emphasis on operating faster, substituting faster, getting the play calls out, getting lined up," Staley said. "During game situations, we'd like to break that huddle at 22 or 24 seconds, so we have time to operate at the line of scrimmage."
• More ball control passing; short passes to RBs/TE's.
• Highlight Kap's mobility (scrambles, read-option, rollouts).
• Shift to predominantly zone blocking run scheme. CHECK!
• Improved blitz pickup/pass protection (Offensive line)More defensive blitz packages/blitz frequency. CHECK!
• More press, bump, and run; less off coverage alignment (CBs).
• More playing time for young players, to aid development.
• Red Zone efficiency. CHECK!

Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182394-what-single-important-change-youd-like-2015-49ers/page8/#vPfRvPYTtAcWvJ7A.99

More encouraging news:

• I hope fans are picking up on these things and taking notice (these are significant IMHO)!
• The up-tempo practiced ended 30 minutes early due to the team's ability to run scripted plays in frequent succession; welcome back WCO!
• Up-tempo to run plays around 20-25 seconds
• Major RZ focus (TE's, RB's and WR's involved)
• Installing a ZBS
• Installing more blitzes/coverage schemes to confuse QB's
• Tons of passes to the RB's already
• CK passing to "check-downs" including T.Smith
• Big-time focus on WR-specific drills to develop young WR's such as Patton (great day from all 3 WR positions) and Jacobs and got several contributions from the UDFA class
• Several deep shots taken as well (VD, T.Smith, UDFA's, etc.)
• Most ACL-guys back and looking great like Hunter, Jacobs, Thomas, Reaser, etc.
• For the first time in ages, the media was allowed to roam around the practice fields and take copious notes all day long (subsequent interviews were also very good with positive exchanges)

I love this thread, getting me pumped about the new regime and its ability to better use the talent we have. This thread is Niner Talk at its best.

May I interject one concern? Mangini's defense may outwit itself if our players don't pick up its complexities quickly. If each defender has to know much more there is greater room for error, and disaster. Thoughts on that?

Originally posted by ncninerfan:
I love this thread, getting me pumped about the new regime and its ability to better use the talent we have. This thread is Niner Talk at its best.

May I interject one concern? Mangini's defense may outwit itself if our players don't pick up its complexities quickly. If each defender has to know much more there is greater room for error, and disaster. Thoughts on that?

Absolutely! We can't undermine the fact that on both offense and defense, there is new terminology, schemes, philosophies, etc. Plus another concern is Boone and Davis not being in camp learning the new zone-blocking-scheme, terminology, communications, etc.

As to Mangini, I think Fangio actually ran some of THE most complicated and sophisticated off coverage schemes in the game (such as pattern-matching). See this terrific thread by thl408: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/179447-film-analysis/

What will be more difficult is learning to play as a unit with a few personnel changes and more substituting (heavier rotation) and ensuring one doesn't break assignment back there. It takes time to learn new playbooks and all come together to be on the same page!

the new coach is not a micromanager and a egomaniac

Originally posted by cciowa:
the new coach is not a micromanager and a egomaniac

Are you old enough to remember Bill Walsh? He certainly was a micromanager and he had an ego. maybe this team needs someone like Bill Walsh or Jim Harbaugh.

Originally posted by buck:
Tomsula seems willing to throw to the running backs.

Tomsula remembers Roger Craig.

Oh yeah, back is the Bill Walsh offense. LOL