Nickel LB

Originally posted by cools:
As noted above, I get the feeling Wheeler wins that spot, rotates in for Wlhoite, Bellore gets the 4th ILB spot as special teams leader.
Swan song for Moody and Bishop, Skov to PS

this may be very well how it turns out

Good idea, plus he is a good ST tackler

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by thl408:

What is it about Lemon that makes you like him manning up against a premier TE? He never dropped back in college and dropping back in coverage was one of the skills he had to learn when transitioning to a 3-4 OLB.

I saw him do it a couple times last preseason, and he has the length to contest jump balls although I do think Gronk would out physical him.

I agree he has decent size to match up, though I don't remember him in man coverage. If you saw it then I believe you. Still, dropping back back in coverage, either in man or zone, is a new skill for Lemon.

^^^^ My memory too about Lemonier. Just because he's lean doesn't mean he's good in coverage.

Also, agreed with cools that Wheeler and Moody are likely competing for the 4th ILB spot. I think it goes to Moody because he provides more ST value, and after teaching Wheeler the defense during pre-season, he'll most likely be available throughout the season to sign back again in case of injury.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
^^^^ My memory too about Lemonier. Just because he's lean doesn't mean he's good in coverage.

Also, agreed with cools that Wheeler and Moody are likely competing for the 4th ILB spot. I think it goes to Moody because he provides more ST value, and after teaching Wheeler the defense during pre-season, he'll most likely be available throughout the season to sign back again in case of injury.

exactly. There's a good chance our 2 backup ILBs will be Bellore and Moody

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
^^^^ My memory too about Lemonier. Just because he's lean doesn't mean he's good in coverage.

Also, agreed with cools that Wheeler and Moody are likely competing for the 4th ILB spot. I think it goes to Moody because he provides more ST value, and after teaching Wheeler the defense during pre-season, he'll most likely be available throughout the season to sign back again in case of injury.

If Wheeler and Moody are competing for the 4th ILB spot, who is our third? I have Michael Wilhoite and NaVorro Bowman as starters, and Wheeler 3rd, unless I am missing someone.

As far as nickel LBs go, I think it will be Wilhoite and Bowman - the two starting ILBs. Wilhoite seems like a better pass defender than a run defender. He's an athletic guy that understands the pattern match schemes that Fangio ran, and I think Mangini will run. He just seems hesitant reading run plays.

Originally posted by thl408:

I agree he has decent size to match up, though I don't remember him in man coverage. If you saw it then I believe you. Still, dropping back back in coverage, either in man or zone, is a new skill for Lemon.

Your probably right about Lemonier. But I really like the thought of Eli Harold coming from different angles as the 5th rusher with a 4 man line. It would force teams to single block other guys on pass downs and make it more difficult to run draws or play action.

I think its going to be Tarrt that plays nickel LB.

Yeah, but your Nickel LB's don't, and really shouldn't necessarily, be good coverage guys. That's why you already substituted someone else out for an extra DB. If your Nickel backers aren't good against the run, teams are gonna run at you spread out all day. That, or you're gonna need to bring a safety down into the box as an extra LB, which limits coverage options a lot. So, for your Nickel backers you need good, all-around backers. It's why our defense was so darn good the past few years. With our front 7, teams couldn't run at all against us, so it made them 1 dimensional. Most teams tried to go 3 wide and run at us so they were facing a 6 man front instead of our nasty front 7.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
^^^^ My memory too about Lemonier. Just because he's lean doesn't mean he's good in coverage.

Also, agreed with cools that Wheeler and Moody are likely competing for the 4th ILB spot. I think it goes to Moody because he provides more ST value, and after teaching Wheeler the defense during pre-season, he'll most likely be available throughout the season to sign back again in case of injury.

If Wheeler and Moody are competing for the 4th ILB spot, who is our third? I have Michael Wilhoite and NaVorro Bowman as starters, and Wheeler 3rd, unless I am missing someone.

Barring injury Nick Bellore is basically guaranteed an ILB slot as a special teams ace. He signed a two year deal and led the league in special teams tackles in three of his four seasons with the Jets.

So, he's likely 4th off the bench at ILB, but he'll be taking on the four spots. That leaves Wheeler or Moody to come first off the bench at ILB and to also contribute to special teams.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yeah, but your Nickel LB's don't, and really shouldn't necessarily, be good coverage guys. That's why you already substituted someone else out for an extra DB. If your Nickel backers aren't good against the run, teams are gonna run at you spread out all day. That, or you're gonna need to bring a safety down into the box as an extra LB, which limits coverage options a lot. So, for your Nickel backers you need good, all-around backers. It's why our defense was so darn good the past few years. With our front 7, teams couldn't run at all against us, so it made them 1 dimensional. Most teams tried to go 3 wide and run at us so they were facing a 6 man front instead of our nasty front 7.

Not sure how Mangini plans to use his nickel LBs in coverage, but Fangio used them in a variety of ways. The majority of the time, they would wall off any shallow crossing routes, then pick up the RB or any shallow WR/TE in coverage (pattern match). Other things they did was re-route any vertical stem from the TE before passing coverage off to the safety, then read the QB's eyes.

If neither of these happened, they were providing underneath coverage in the hook/curl zones to allow the CBs to play over the top on the WRs. Many of us were upset with the CBs playing with a cushion and giving up the underneath catches. The reason the CBs did this is because they are relying on the nickel LBs to defend the passing lanes to inside breaking routes from the WRs, while staying over the top to defeat any vertical routes. Then there are times the nickel LBs had man coverage assignments while pattern matching.

To provide a pattern matching example, posted in the Tartt thread yesterday:
Wilhoite is lined up across from the TE. Borland is lined up across from the RB. When the RB flares to the flat, Wilhoite is the one that matches the RB because he's in a better position to do so (less distance to run to the flat since he's already on that side of the field).




Suppose the TE ran to the flat, and the RB performed a check release up the middle. The man coverage assignments would have switched (Wilhoite takes the TE, Borland takes the RB).

^^^^ Thanks for this THL.

Always hugely appreciated.

More nickel LB play:

This is textbook "walling off" a shallow crossing route. Watch Bow.




oops I drew that route from the incorrect WR.

Originally posted by cciowa:
wheeler is going to be a good player for us i feel. in terms of moody, this is his chance , his best chance and maybe his last chance with us

Phillip Wheeler(6'2,245) will start inside next to Bowman over Wilhoite(6'0,240), he had 150 tackles for Oakland but moved to outside with Miami and was a run liability.......I really like Moody but his being such a good special teams player is his handicap.