Really, I would not be surprise at all if Brandon Thomas plays very well and shows that he "arguabably" is our best OL all year long..
If you call can watch how he handle Goldman, Carradine and Mario Edwards two years ago..
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Do you have faith in Brandon Thomas & Marcus Martin to step it up?
Apr 10, 2015 at 10:09 AM
- 9moon
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Apr 10, 2015 at 10:12 AM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by WRATHman44:
That's the one thing that we can offer that other teams really can't: we can send Scotty his players, though we don't have many of them left. That's a great shot in the arm to a guy trying to reshape a roster. Maybe #15, Boone, and #46 to move up to #5 (if the guy we want is still there). We really won't know enough about how McDonald and Carrier are doing for us to dangle Vernon at him (at least Vernon has already showed up for the off season program).
edit: how pissed would Boone be if we kept him around to compete for the swing tackle spot?
Yes, Boone would be, but at this point he doesn't have much of a case to claim a spot if he's beaten out during camp. I think he'd make a great swing tackle and eventually replace Staley...which would bring him the money he thinks he deserves. If they explain that to him... (his lateral movement might be limited but he did well at LT earlier in his career, filling in)
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I honestly think Staley was trying to do too much. He has the hardest blocking assignment on every play (run or pass). He was clearly in Iupati's sh!t most of the year for dumba$$ mistakes in pass pro. I think he needs to stop worrying about being a coach on the field and just do his job. I'd like to say Davis struggled because he was hurt, but imo that's only part of it. He has always struggled with speed rushers off the edge.
Yes, Staley was really at a disadvantage because of Iupati's limitations in passing situations...and still played well. I'd give Davis an ultimatum...lose weight so you can move with agility or be replaced by Boone, or move to RG. He is so good when he is in shape and his health would be a lot better if he stays in shape. McKittrick wanted his guys to be able to play the 4th quarter with the same energy as the 1st...and I can't tell you how much I agree with that sentiment! That's why the 9ers of the 80s could run so well during the second half of the game.
So I would put everyone on notice that all spots were open and you'd better come to camp in shape. With that in mind I would not mind seeing a lineup like:
Staley/Thomas/Kilgore/MMartin/Boone
But if Boone comes in out of shape...start Pears or a draft pick to wake this group up. This is one area where I wonder if veterans were too comfortable during the Harbaugh regime...maintaining starting positions. Not that they had much competition until now but I would have been tempted to leave Looney at RG last year unless injuries gave Boone back his spot.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Apr 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM ]
Apr 10, 2015 at 10:27 AM
- NCommand
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
That's the one thing that we can offer that other teams really can't: we can send Scotty his players, though we don't have many of them left. That's a great shot in the arm to a guy trying to reshape a roster. Maybe #15, Boone, and #46 to move up to #5 (if the guy we want is still there). We really won't know enough about how McDonald and Carrier are doing for us to dangle Vernon at him (at least Vernon has already showed up for the off season program).
edit: how pissed would Boone be if we kept him around to compete for the swing tackle spot?
Yes, Boone would be, but at this point he doesn't have much of a case to claim a spot if he's beaten out during camp. I think he'd make a great swing tackle and eventually replace Staley...which would bring him the money he thinks he deserves. If they explain that to him... (his lateral movement might be limited but he did well at LT earlier in his career, filling in)
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I honestly think Staley was trying to do too much. He has the hardest blocking assignment on every play (run or pass). He was clearly in Iupati's sh!t most of the year for dumba$$ mistakes in pass pro. I think he needs to stop worrying about being a coach on the field and just do his job. I'd like to say Davis struggled because he was hurt, but imo that's only part of it. He has always struggled with speed rushers off the edge.
Yes, Staley was really at a disadvantage because of Iupati's limitations in passing situations...and still played well. I'd give Davis an ultimatum...lose weight so you can move with agility or be replaced by Boone, or move to RG. He is so good when he is in shape and his health would be a lot better if he stays in shape. McKittrick wanted his guys to be able to play the 4th quarter with the same energy as the 1st...and I can't tell you how much I agree with that sentiment! That's why the 9ers of the 80s could run so well during the second half of the game.
So I would put everyone on notice that all spots were open and you'd better come to camp in shape. With that in mind I would not mind seeing a lineup like:
Staley/Thomas/Kilgore/MMartin/Boone
But if Boone comes in out of shape...start Pears or a draft pick to wake this group up. This is one area where I wonder if veterans were too comfortable during the Harbaugh regime...maintaining starting positions. Not that they had much competition until now but I would have been tempted to leave Looney at RG last year unless injuries gave Boone back his spot.
Agreed. Slide Davis inside to RG and let he and Looney compete like heck!
Apr 10, 2015 at 10:31 AM
- 9erguy
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Originally posted by 9moon:
Really, I would not be surprise at all if Brandon Thomas plays very well and shows that he "arguabably" is our best OL all year long..
If you call can watch how he handle Goldman, Carradine and Mario Edwards two years ago..
arguuuaaabaaaaably
Apr 10, 2015 at 10:46 AM
- WRATHman44
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes, Boone would be, but at this point he doesn't have much of a case to claim a spot if he's beaten out during camp. I think he'd make a great swing tackle and eventually replace Staley...which would bring him the money he thinks he deserves. If they explain that to him... (his lateral movement might be limited but he did well at LT earlier in his career, filling in)
But if Boone comes in out of shape...start Pears or a draft pick to wake this group up. This is one area where I wonder if veterans were too comfortable during the Harbaugh regime...maintaining starting positions. Not that they had much competition until now but I would have been tempted to leave Looney at RG last year unless injuries gave Boone back his spot.
I think it's easier to fill-in at T than it is to start there. He does all the homework with Staley, prepping for the edge rushers they'll face, but the other team doesn't have any footage to study of him. For example, that insane fake spin move Ware put on Staley last year was clearly scouted. A few years back, Staley started spinning himself to counter/keep up with spin moves put on him by edge rushers. Boone doesn't do that, so it wouldn't have worked on him. He's more succeptible to push-pulls that take advantage of his tendency to lean into his punch and inside out moves that make him chabge direction quickly. Staley doesn't have those weaknesses, so guys prepping to play us don't really practice that stuff. If he was starting at T, there'd be a much more extensive book on him, and rushers would be practicing their moves that work against his weaknesses.
Apr 10, 2015 at 10:52 AM
- WRATHman44
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Slide Davis inside to RG and let he and Looney compete like heck!
IDK. I think he could be a really good guard, but I also think he could be a really good tackle. He has great feet and functional strength, I just think he's got a fat kid mindset. When he gets beaten badly, it tends to be later in drives or later in games. I think he needs better conditioning and less bad weight on him. I think moving to a ZBS would give him less excuse to carry extra weight. The rest would be up to him. If he gets that heads up early in the off season program and he still can't move well enough for a whole game at T, by all means, move him inside.
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:02 AM
- crake49
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Originally posted by 9moon:
Really, I would not be surprise at all if Brandon Thomas plays very well and shows that he "arguabably" is our best OL all year long..
If you call can watch how he handle Goldman, Carradine and Mario Edwards two years ago..
Totally agree! The guy was a consensus first round pick until he was injured. I think the plan was always for him to take over for Iupati. He's got quicker feet, almost the same strength, longer arms and he's much better suited to blocking in space or a ZBS system.
And this is why I don't see Baalke taking an offensive lineman with the first pick this year.
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:11 AM
- NCommand
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Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Slide Davis inside to RG and let he and Looney compete like heck!
IDK. I think he could be a really good guard, but I also think he could be a really good tackle. He has great feet and functional strength, I just think he's got a fat kid mindset. When he gets beaten badly, it tends to be later in drives or later in games. I think he needs better conditioning and less bad weight on him. I think moving to a ZBS would give him less excuse to carry extra weight. The rest would be up to him. If he gets that heads up early in the off season program and he still can't move well enough for a whole game at T, by all means, move him inside.
No question he can be a very good T (Davis). And you nailed it...these fatties need to trim down and exploit the very own athleticism AND power they've possessed all along. Davis could be that outstanding edge-sealer in the ZBS who can also sneak to that second level and blow a couple guys up along the way (power/athleticism). I have a strong feeling "conditioning" will be a BIG focus this off season (pun intended).
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:15 AM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I think it's easier to fill-in at T than it is to start there. He does all the homework with Staley, prepping for the edge rushers they'll face, but the other team doesn't have any footage to study of him. For example, that insane fake spin move Ware put on Staley last year was clearly scouted. A few years back, Staley started spinning himself to counter/keep up with spin moves put on him by edge rushers. Boone doesn't do that, so it wouldn't have worked on him. He's more succeptible to push-pulls that take advantage of his tendency to lean into his punch and inside out moves that make him chabge direction quickly. Staley doesn't have those weaknesses, so guys prepping to play us don't really practice that stuff. If he was starting at T, there'd be a much more extensive book on him, and rushers would be practicing their moves that work against his weaknesses.
True, but if Boone was the full time OT he would no doubt get better as well, so that might offset some of the problems you point out--particularly the push-pull. I see Boone as a better RT than left due to his reach and lack of agility. For LT I would want someone who could move and stay in front of the speed rushers.
Staley's spin move was idiotic! Never turn your back on a pass rusher! Yes, it worked for a while but if he had just dropped a step it would have worked as well or better. I'm amazed sometimes at how these guys drop...or don't. But the line was built for power running not pass blocking (Staley predates that)! I think Staley will drop the spin in the future and stick with basics, which are his strength...as you point out.
I'm ready to move on from Boone. Not just because of the holdout that helped wreck the early offense last year, but I think they moved him to G to cover his weaknesses in lateral mobility...but I don't want guys on the line who lack mobility! Period! If Davis loses weight he will be much better and Thomas, M Martin and Looney should be able to handle the inside posiitons--Kilgore at center. Some are predicting the niners will take an OLman in the first round and that would really make Boone expendable. A trade for a third round pick would be great but a lower pick is much more likely. I like the idea of his backing up both tackle spots though...at least for a year.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Apr 10, 2015 at 11:18 AM ]
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:40 AM
- SofaKing
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I like Martin. He had a up and down rookie year. Kinda reminds me of A. Davis as a rookie. Both guys were just 20 years old when drafted. A young kid like that is going to struggle a bit. But Martin really played well in pre-season before he got hurt, and had some good games when he started in the season.
I'm excited to see what Thomas can do. Hope that knee is fully recovered. Have to see how he does in camp and pre-season before we put any faith in him.
I'm excited to see what Thomas can do. Hope that knee is fully recovered. Have to see how he does in camp and pre-season before we put any faith in him.
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:47 AM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by SofaKing:
I like Martin. He had a up and down rookie year. Kinda reminds me of A. Davis as a rookie. Both guys were just 20 years old when drafted. A young kid like that is going to struggle a bit. But Martin really played well in pre-season before he got hurt, and had some good games when he started in the season.
I'm excited to see what Thomas can do. Hope that knee is fully recovered. Have to see how he does in camp and pre-season before we put any faith in him.
Agree! If Kilgore can stay healthy, Thomas and M Martin may give us strength in the middle we haven't had for years! We really need to stop those LBs running right between the C and OG this year! How can any QB set his feet and pass accurately with that happening? If M Martin beats Kilgore out for C then either Kilgore or Looney at RG or perhaps people are right that they draft Scherff.
Apr 10, 2015 at 11:54 AM
- 49ERnation
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Hmm. If they are mowing down our D-lineman in camp I think id be more worried about the defense. Now if they look good in the exhibition games I'll be very excited. I'd be happy to hear balanced competition in camp though from both sides of the ball
Apr 10, 2015 at 12:43 PM
- btthepunk
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I think Brandon Thomas has a higher ceiling than Iupati and Martin can be an elite Center.
Apr 10, 2015 at 1:07 PM
- 9erred
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YES YES and triple YES. These are two 3rd round picks. Thomas graded out higher but fell due to injury. Martin played at USC, and was a highly ranked center. This is why I do NOT want the niners to go OL in round 1. Young players need to develop in year 2 of the NFL. Go with other positions of need lie DE, CB, ILB, WR in rounds 1,2 and 3
Apr 10, 2015 at 2:09 PM
- 9moon
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Kilgore is overrated.. he's best suited as a backup interior linement..
not a starter in my opinion..
not a starter in my opinion..