49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Giedi:
Great post, and I'll just add that I've been watching Kyle's NFL meeting breakfast interview, and found out that the 49er O Linemen do both man/power/gap blocking *and* zone blocking. While I kinda knew this in the back of my mind, the fact that he outright states that is very illuminating to me. He wants combinations on the O Line, it seems, not just one type. So, from what he said and from what I know about the inside zones, you need some power/man blockers to do those - which is perfect for guards like Garnett and Laken. So, to reiterate, I think it's intentional that he has some good man/power blockers in there in addition to the zone blockers to have a variety of blocking on the O Line schemes. Now he also said the majority of the time they do zone blocking, so it makes sense that the LT, C, and RT would be zone guys. So Brown really has to improve his movement for the zone blocking for this line to be at its full potential.

you mean KS actually knows football?

and knows what he wants on the o-line??

and knows what he's doing???

but, but, but, . . . oh my gawd, what if Jimmy gets a "boo-boo"

OMG!, OMG!, OMG!

seriously,

Originally posted by jonnydel:

While none of us want to see Jimmy get killed it feels like you wanted them to blow the entire bank on guys that may or may not continue to produce. Remember all that money that Oakland paid for their O-line(their 2 guards were paid over 24 mil last year and had signed Donald Penn and Rodney Hudson as FA's for pretty good money at the time as well)? Yet, D. Carr got pounded last year and was hurt most of the year.

Just because a team signs some of the best available doesn't mean they'd be great fits in the scheme and produce. We could've blown elite tackle money on Norwell and he could still get Jimmy crushed. The likelyhood is lower. But, it's no guarantee.

Also, again, while I don't want to see Jimmy get crushed I don't want us to get into a "win now" mode. We have a bunch of guys over the next 2-4 years who will need contract extensions and we're already paying out 113.5 million this year just on offense which is already 64% of the cap. To add Norwell would've put us at offense counting for 72% of the salary cap this year. No matter how much rollover space you have, that's a HUGE imbalance.

Right now, we'll most likely head into this year with about 36 mil in cap space to go along with what'll be about 50 mil in space next year(estimating based off what it seems the cap will go up and rookie contracts). That puts us with 86 mil in space when needing to figure out what to do with Ward, possible extension for Tartt, Brown's extension and needing to add a couple more pieces and still save room for more extensions the next season. You just count Tartt and Brown - if they play at the level we need them to, you'd be adding at least 25 mil in contracts. Buck's 5th year will be high and Ward could command 9+ if he shows value at corner and slot.

Good overall post JD but Oakland may not be the best example. They gave up the least QB hits of anyone last year and PFF noted they did it mostly with their 5 OL (didn't have to use a bunch of extra OL, TE's, FB/RB's in to help).

Offensive Line Stats

Maybe these 51 hits were a direct result of the two G's and Carr paid for it? If so, it continues to show how important G's and interior pass protection is in keeping your FQB healthy.

PS: The Eagles spent the most --- $48M --- on the OL and won the Superbowl and gave Foles all day to throw.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Well stated, both of you. I've been in that same boat... concerned...as we should be. But still cautiously optimistic too with what we currently have at G plus whomever we bring in from the draft. There will be serious competition. And youth.

But I've seen way too many injuries over the past 5 years to feel good about the OL today.

My philosophy has always been, get your FQB and then invest in protecting him.

Yep, agree, but just to point out again, there are a lot of ways to protect a franchise QB *other than* simply drafting hall of fame linemen across the board.

Oh yes, lateral threats, moving the pocket, extra pass protection, excellent scheme and play calling, supreme execution, etc...all ways to work around crappy OL play.

Hey Giedi, thanks for post above on Kyle's interviews. That was news to me. I do take it tho as having a superb RT who is power guy but best Pass pro out there, as a guy who could still fit with pass pro and power run blocking. Last yr i think the avg yds behind RT was 4.8 or 5.0, It was surprising. Neat that Kyle uses both. I never heard that til your post.

As for spending multimillion $$ on all rd 1 OL, no, that isn't what i have wanted at all. I merely want guys who protect the Qb well. And i fully expect whoever we get to get a lot better under Kyle. Right now no OG on the team blocked well for JG last 5 games. Not Beadles, not garnett(rehabbing), not our new guy(wasn't here), nor Laken. And Fsco didnt' either. Nor Barnes. And definitely not kilgore (who they inherited) I will say at least they weren't Devey to Martin to Pears bad. But they WERE bad. Just because JG can get rid of the ball quick ...doesn't mean that is great for the O. I would really like to see a pair of good blocking OGs in front of JG, to see what he really can do. I have a feeling give him enough time and he will literally undress a D. But when he is running for his life or dodging 300 lb DLs, that doesn't make for a great Qb. He did great. But he also could have been injured before the first game this yr. So i am just saying, we blew our wad, $137 mil. Now protect it.

Incidentally, my bro is in Vegas en route to Bryce and Zion. Just went to the sports book and:
Pats 6;1
Eagles 8:1
Rams 10: 1
And
SF 10:1

Keee- ripes....where did that come from? Last time i heard was we were an amazing 7th and at 20:1. What the heck happened?
Hard to believe we are tied with RAms. They have a better team, player for player, but not at Qb. Maybe the JG tape has made the rounds. IDK.

Harder to believe we are 10:1 and tied in 4th place. Richburg has been noticed....Thanks JD for posting that article. McKinnon may have been noticed. And RS ....ummmm....that is falsely inflating how good we are. We have no idea if he even plays. He is a $3mil gamble. That is all. NOw if he shows up and healthy on wheels, uuoooohhh....that 's a bit different. Still and all. 10:1? I don't think that is right. Now if we draft an EDGE, and at least one starter OG... plus a pair of LBs, a CB...ok, I could go with 10:1. As is? Naw.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey Giedi, thanks for post above on Kyle's interviews. That was news to me. I do take it tho as having a superb RT who is power guy but best Pass pro out there, as a guy who could still fit with pass pro and power run blocking. Last yr i think the avg yds behind RT was 4.8 or 5.0, It was surprising. Neat that Kyle uses both. I never heard that til your post.

As for spending multimillion $$ on all rd 1 OL, no, that isn't what i have wanted at all. I merely want guys who protect the Qb well. And i fully expect whoever we get to get a lot better under Kyle. Right now no OG on the team blocked well for JG last 5 games. Not Beadles, not garnett(rehabbing), not our new guy(wasn't here), nor Laken. And Fsco didnt' either. Nor Barnes. And definitely not kilgore (who they inherited) I will say at least they weren't Devey to Martin to Pears bad. But they WERE bad. Just because JG can get rid of the ball quick ...doesn't mean that is great for the O. I would really like to see a pair of good blocking OGs in front of JG, to see what he really can do. I have a feeling give him enough time and he will literally undress a D. But when he is running for his life or dodging 300 lb DLs, that doesn't make for a great Qb. He did great. But he also could have been injured before the first game this yr. So i am just saying, we blew our wad, $137 mil. Now protect it.

Incidentally, my bro is in Vegas en route to Bryce and Zion. Just went to the sports book and:
Pats 6;1
Eagles 8:1
Rams 10: 1
And
SF 10:1

Keee- ripes....where did that come from? Last time i heard was we were an amazing 7th and at 20:1. What the heck happened?
Hard to believe we are tied with RAms. They have a better team, player for player, but not at Qb. Maybe the JG tape has made the rounds. IDK.

Harder to believe we are 10:1 and tied in 4th place. Richburg has been noticed....Thanks JD for posting that article. McKinnon may have been noticed. And RS ....ummmm....that is falsely inflating how good we are. We have no idea if he even plays. He is a $3mil gamble. That is all. NOw if he shows up and healthy on wheels, uuoooohhh....that 's a bit different. Still and all. 10:1? I don't think that is right. Now if we draft an EDGE, and at least one starter OG... plus a pair of LBs, a CB...ok, I could go with 10:1. As is? Naw.

Yes, it was a very interesting interview. Contrast that with Harbaugh, I don't think Greg Roman could have coached the ZBS if Roman was in a Nazi concentration camp and was told if he could coach the ZBS he'd get a big mac.

So big difference there between the two coaching staffs. Kyle can coach gap/power/man as well as ZBS, Harbaugh couldn't. At least I don't have any articles or quotes or anything indicating that he could coach the ZBS, or had any interest in doing so.

I think you should feel confident about ShanaLynch choosing a good O Lineman in the draft, and he knows exactly what he wants. That O Lineman will fit perfectly with his schemes. Trent is (from some of the Instagram links NC has posted) looks like a couple of weeks away from actually lifting weights and doing fitness cardio stuff. Kyle said that it's going to be a lot harder to make this years team than last years team, and he's hopeful next year will even be harder to make the team. To me, that means he's very confident in his 3 former number 1 pick O Line guys to get the job done, and he's not resting. 49ers have had 12 O Line draft visits so far, according to the draft visit tracker on the draft boards. So he's well aware of Suh and Donald, he even said so in the interview.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
While none of us want to see Jimmy get killed it feels like you wanted them to blow the entire bank on guys that may or may not continue to produce. Remember all that money that Oakland paid for their O-line(their 2 guards were paid over 24 mil last year and had signed Donald Penn and Rodney Hudson as FA's for pretty good money at the time as well)? Yet, D. Carr got pounded last year and was hurt most of the year.

Just because a team signs some of the best available doesn't mean they'd be great fits in the scheme and produce. We could've blown elite tackle money on Norwell and he could still get Jimmy crushed. The likelyhood is lower. But, it's no guarantee.

Also, again, while I don't want to see Jimmy get crushed I don't want us to get into a "win now" mode. We have a bunch of guys over the next 2-4 years who will need contract extensions and we're already paying out 113.5 million this year just on offense which is already 64% of the cap. To add Norwell would've put us at offense counting for 72% of the salary cap this year. No matter how much rollover space you have, that's a HUGE imbalance.

Right now, we'll most likely head into this year with about 36 mil in cap space to go along with what'll be about 50 mil in space next year(estimating based off what it seems the cap will go up and rookie contracts). That puts us with 86 mil in space when needing to figure out what to do with Ward, possible extension for Tartt, Brown's extension and needing to add a couple more pieces and still save room for more extensions the next season. You just count Tartt and Brown - if they play at the level we need them to, you'd be adding at least 25 mil in contracts. Buck's 5th year will be high and Ward could command 9+ if he shows value at corner and slot.

Good overall post JD but Oakland may not be the best example. They gave up the least QB hits of anyone last year and PFF noted they did it mostly with their 5 OL (didn't have to use a bunch of extra OL, TE's, FB/RB's in to help).

Offensive Line Stats

Maybe these 51 hits were a direct result of the two G's and Carr paid for it? If so, it continues to show how important G's and interior pass protection is in keeping your FQB healthy.

PS: The Eagles spent the most --- $48M --- on the OL and won the Superbowl and gave Foles all day to throw.

MIdget Wilson at 121 QB hits! I Like it! We draft Landry and get Solly coached up, I hope we add another 20 to that number!

Hear! Hear!

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Great post, and I'll just add that I've been watching Kyle's NFL meeting breakfast interview, and found out that the 49er O Linemen do both man/power/gap blocking *and* zone blocking. While I kinda knew this in the back of my mind, the fact that he outright states that is very illuminating to me. He wants combinations on the O Line, it seems, not just one type. So, from what he said and from what I know about the inside zones, you need some power/man blockers to do those - which is perfect for guards like Garnett and Laken. So, to reiterate, I think it's intentional that he has some good man/power blockers in there in addition to the zone blockers to have a variety of blocking on the O Line schemes. Now he also said the majority of the time they do zone blocking, so it makes sense that the LT, C, and RT would be zone guys. So Brown really has to improve his movement for the zone blocking for this line to be at its full potential.

you mean KS actually knows football?

and knows what he wants on the o-line??

and knows what he's doing???

but, but, but, . . . oh my gawd, what if Jimmy gets a "boo-boo"

OMG!, OMG!, OMG!

seriously,

+1

Originally posted by Giedi:

Yes, it was a very interesting interview. Contrast that with Harbaugh, I don't think Greg Roman could have coached the ZBS if Roman was in a Nazi concentration camp and was told if he could coach the ZBS he'd get a big mac.

So big difference there between the two coaching staffs. Kyle can coach gap/power/man as well as ZBS, Harbaugh couldn't. At least I don't have any articles or quotes or anything indicating that he could coach the ZBS, or had any interest in doing so.

I think you should feel confident about ShanaLynch choosing a good O Lineman in the draft, and he knows exactly what he wants. That O Lineman will fit perfectly with his schemes. Trent is (from some of the Instagram links NC has posted) looks like a couple of weeks away from actually lifting weights and doing fitness cardio stuff. Kyle said that it's going to be a lot harder to make this years team than last years team, and he's hopeful next year will even be harder to make the team. To me, that means he's very confident in his 3 former number 1 pick O Line guys to get the job done, and he's not resting. 49ers have had 12 O Line draft visits so far, according to the draft visit tracker on the draft boards. So he's well aware of Suh and Donald, he even said so in the interview.

Make no mistake, Giedi, i have full faith in John and Kyle, and felt that way from the first. Ok, initially i hoped JL would succeed, but had followed him all along and was pretty sure those who nixed him were going to be surprised. Their accomplishments to date have been truly appreciated. Sure i wish they would have hit 100% but nobody is perfect. They missed on OL, and HC missed on Joe WIlliams. Man i hope he makes up for making Kyles' faith in him work out. Coming into camp out of shape? No wonder kyle was hacked. Punishment was perfect...he had an injury...ergo, IR. Bet we see a new Joe this yr. That would be really sweet. But now, neither HC nor GM is going to be so forgiving. Good news would be he contests for starter. Wouldn't that be neat.

What is really interesting is that a dog meat team, most of last 20 yrs and duly ignored by media and sports networks...suddenly is 10:1 odds to win the SB. Which is tied for 4th with Rams. I think what that says is that kyle and John HAVE been factored in and folks are taking note of their achievments. And of course, we had one of the most interesting teams of all time, losing 5 consecutive games by less than 3 points. But then JG happened and suddenly we have become acknowledged. I give all that credit to our two guys. I'm a KS/JL fan, thru and thru.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

While none of us want to see Jimmy get killed it feels like you wanted them to blow the entire bank on guys that may or may not continue to produce. Remember all that money that Oakland paid for their O-line(their 2 guards were paid over 24 mil last year and had signed Donald Penn and Rodney Hudson as FA's for pretty good money at the time as well)? Yet, D. Carr got pounded last year and was hurt most of the year.

Just because a team signs some of the best available doesn't mean they'd be great fits in the scheme and produce. We could've blown elite tackle money on Norwell and he could still get Jimmy crushed. The likelyhood is lower. But, it's no guarantee.

Also, again, while I don't want to see Jimmy get crushed I don't want us to get into a "win now" mode. We have a bunch of guys over the next 2-4 years who will need contract extensions and we're already paying out 113.5 million this year just on offense which is already 64% of the cap. To add Norwell would've put us at offense counting for 72% of the salary cap this year. No matter how much rollover space you have, that's a HUGE imbalance.

Right now, we'll most likely head into this year with about 36 mil in cap space to go along with what'll be about 50 mil in space next year(estimating based off what it seems the cap will go up and rookie contracts). That puts us with 86 mil in space when needing to figure out what to do with Ward, possible extension for Tartt, Brown's extension and needing to add a couple more pieces and still save room for more extensions the next season. You just count Tartt and Brown - if they play at the level we need them to, you'd be adding at least 25 mil in contracts. Buck's 5th year will be high and Ward could command 9+ if he shows value at corner and slot.

Good overall post JD but Oakland may not be the best example. They gave up the least QB hits of anyone last year and PFF noted they did it mostly with their 5 OL (didn't have to use a bunch of extra OL, TE's, FB/RB's in to help).

Offensive Line Stats

Maybe these 51 hits were a direct result of the two G's and Carr paid for it? If so, it continues to show how important G's and interior pass protection is in keeping your FQB healthy.

PS: The Eagles spent the most --- $48M --- on the OL and won the Superbowl and gave Foles all day to throw.

But, the eagles are also currently still over the cap and have a QB on a rookie deal for 7.7 mil

Originally posted by jonnydel:

But, the eagles are also currently still over the cap and have a QB on a rookie deal for 7.7 mil

I agree, but that's probably a different topic...cap management.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

you mean KS actually knows football?

and knows what he wants on the o-line??

and knows what he's doing???

but, but, but, . . . oh my gawd, what if Jimmy gets a "boo-boo"

OMG!, OMG!, OMG!

seriously,

Lol. The over-reaction in here is rediculous.

Every QB gets hit. It's literally something we cannot stop.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

you mean KS actually knows football?

and knows what he wants on the o-line??

and knows what he's doing???

but, but, but, . . . oh my gawd, what if Jimmy gets a "boo-boo"

OMG!, OMG!, OMG!

seriously,

Lol. The over-reaction in here is rediculous.

Every QB gets hit. It's literally something we cannot stop.

Why even bother addressing the line?

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Why even bother addressing the line?

last year a split second and only because of jimmys release and brain saved him from a big hit. we got very lucky and i am not willing to bank on luck for a full 16 games

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Why even bother addressing the line?

last year a split second and only because of jimmys release and brain saved him from a big hit. we got very lucky and i am not willing to bank on luck for a full 16 games

This