With or without previous staff

Originally posted by NCommand:
Here's the reality. Borland and Wilhoite were our starters last year replacing Willis and Bowman and we were great. This year, Bowman and Wilhoite (year 2 as a starter) will be our starters. Is that even a drop off? Even, at worse, production-wise, right? If Bowman is unable to go, does anyone doubt Baalke won't have the next rookie ILB and/or FA ready to roll?

Chill people. We lost some dynamic players when healthy (Borland/Bowman/Willis) or in their prime (Bowman/Willis) but we haven't lost a beat of production on the field. You don't end the season as the #5 ranked defense and #1 in TO's if there is THAT far of a drop off.

We good! Relax!

Great points, my counter point would be those guys were successful under Harbaugh, will they be under these coaches? It is a valid question. Just because we have drafted well in the past, does not mean we will automatically hit a home run on another linebacker as well. Many things have to fall in place.

All these random issues we are having are a collection of mere councidences and have nothing to do with the front office and how the team is being run....

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by NeonNiner:

With or without the previous staff....this team was still going downhill regardless. Window closed, losing talent, rest of the division getting better, etc. Verb is right - Harbaugh left at the right time and he's a smart man for doing so.

With the new staff of Tomsula, Magnini, Chryst, and the like...I can legitimately see a case being made of the Niners picking in the top 5 next year with everything else considered.

I don't think so, and here's the reason why. Despite the losses -- despite ALL the losses -- this is a team that is still very good and very deep in the trenches. That's where it counts. You can have all the talent in the freaking world -- but if you can't block for them -- they ain't going anywhere.

I will admit -- wholeheartedly -- that our defense is going to be somewhat of a train wreck this season -- at least through the first six to eight games. But I think it will get better.

I don't think we're a playoff team. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But, as bad as the news has been, I don't think this team is going to be that horrific either.

I disagree that the Niners are still "very good". They're a middle of the pack team in a division with three other good to elite teams.

You said yourself that the defense will be a bit of a train wreck next year with an exodus of talent gone, elite defensive coaching staff gone, and downgrade from Fangio to Magnini to DC.

The offense was a dumpster fire last year and while a lot of that was on Roman, I'm not banking on this offense becoming top flight anytime soon. Don't have the personnel/firepower or coaching for that. Not to mention the Niners play in by far the best defensive division in the league.

They're an average at best team and I'm personally going with 6-7 wins, last in division.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

People don't retire because of coaching changes, they asked to be released. That being said doubts about the new coaching staffs ability are warranted. Lets see what happens.

Yeah, like Michael Bennett right now over in Seattle who wants to be traded to the Falcons. Welcome Jimmy Graham!

You know this for a fact?

Originally posted by NeonNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
People don't retire because of coaching changes, they asked to be released. That being said doubts about the new coaching staffs ability are warranted. Lets see what happens.

Yeah, like Michael Bennett right now over in Seattle who wants to be traded to the Falcons. Welcome Jimmy Graham!

You know this for a fact?

Fact that its on twitter , fact that is true..who knows...but it was reported

Oh no doubt Willis and Borland would of retired even had Harbs and Company been here, but I would of felt better off with Harbs, and Fangio and his defensive coaches here. We have a bunch of either inexperienced coaches or coaches who have failed badly elsewhere, which gives me ltttle faith in the likes of Chryst, and Mangini, especially Mangini.

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
I disagree that the Niners are still "very good". They're a middle of the pack team in a division with three other good to elite teams.

You said yourself that the defense will be a bit of a train wreck next year with an exodus of talent gone, elite defensive coaching staff gone, and downgrade from Fangio to Magnini to DC.

The offense was a dumpster fire last year and while a lot of that was on Roman, I'm not banking on this offense becoming top flight anytime soon. Don't have the personnel/firepower or coaching for that. Not to mention the Niners play in by far the best defensive division in the league.

They're an average at best team and I'm personally going with 6-7 wins, last in division.

rut-roh, be prepared to be blasted for stating your opinion bro.

I agree 100%, we went from stocked to running out of depth. We have lost quality players on both sides of the ball, and we lost an elite staff, at least on defense.

I think we are a 4-12 team right now in 2015, last in the west.

Originally posted by NeonNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
People don't retire because of coaching changes, they asked to be released. That being said doubts about the new coaching staffs ability are warranted. Lets see what happens.

Yeah, like Michael Bennett right now over in Seattle who wants to be traded to the Falcons. Welcome Jimmy Graham!

You know this for a fact?

All I know is that KFFC did not report it and it's not Niner-related. Therefore, it's probably true.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Here's the reality. Borland and Wilhoite were our starters last year replacing Willis and Bowman and we were great. This year, Bowman and Wilhoite (year 2 as a starter) will be our starters. Is that even a drop off? Even, at worse, production-wise, right? If Bowman is unable to go, does anyone doubt Baalke won't have the next rookie ILB and/or FA ready to roll?

Chill people. We lost some dynamic players when healthy (Borland/Bowman/Willis) or in their prime (Bowman/Willis) but we haven't lost a beat of production on the field. You don't end the season as the #5 ranked defense and #1 in TO's if there is THAT far of a drop off.

We good! Relax!

Great points, my counter point would be those guys were successful under Harbaugh, will they be under these coaches? It is a valid question. Just because we have drafted well in the past, does not mean we will automatically hit a home run on another linebacker as well. Many things have to fall in place.

You mean, Fangio, not Harbaugh. Fangio ran the defense 100%. I actually feel BETTER that Tomsula, a defensive coach, is here over Harbaugh for this such case. But to be objective, it remains to be seen if Eric Mangini, Mick Lombardi, Jason Tarver, Clancy Pendegrast, Tim Lewis, Ejiro Evero, Scott Brown & Aubrayo Franklin will end up being a better, more cohesive group over Fangio and company (and I was a big fan of Fangio minus a few tendencies).

As fans, all we can go by are the personnel and proven production on the field from last year to now. From that aspect, we may actually be stronger in several areas. So Borland ended the year on I.R. (only played 9 games). Bowman and Willis were on I.R. So if those guys are lost in 2015, we only lost depth and one part-time starter. That's how I have to look at it.

If Bowman comes back even 80%, Wilhoite should be better in year 2. Moody will be in year 4, Skov in year 2. Plus whoever we add in FA and the draft...as DEPTH for the loss of Bowman, Borland and Willis.

And the other thing fans are forgetting is that Mangini has had two years to watch and learn our system...including from an offensive perspective. He knows this personnel and what we do successfully. Do you get the impression he's going to leave Bowman and Wilhoite in coverage a ton in 2015 when we have a plethora of DB's? Probably not. So the needed production from the ILB position will be minimum.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Oh no doubt Willis and Borland would of retired even had Harbs and Company been here, but I would of felt better off with Harbs, and Fangio and his defensive coaches here. We have a bunch of either inexperienced coaches or coaches who have failed badly elsewhere, which gives me ltttle faith in the likes of Chryst, and Mangini, especially Mangini.

You could have made the same argument about failing badly elsewhere regarding Fangio when he first came to the Niners (maybe you did.)

This would be waaay worse if Harbaugh was still here. The media just went from bashing Harbaugh to bashing to FO once he left. If Harbaugh was here this would still be his fault. The players who retired would have retired regardless and the "Harbaugh has lost his team" storyline would be on fire.

The media's main goal for the last 2 seasons has been to inject as much drama as possible. Harbaugh being here would just made it worse.

I don't think any of these personnel (players leaving via FA) or personal (retirements) decisions would have been any different.

One small advantage of having Tomsula as HC - earlier start for spring training because of new HC.

I also agree that if JH was still here certain media outlets would be spinning these events as further evidence of the strained Harbaugh/Baalke/York relationship, so either way the negative connotations would be prevalent.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by CityKing415:
Harbaugh wouldnt have let Gore walk.

no way he wouldn't, he would have drove him..or very least uber'd him a ride

Harbaugh didnt write the checks. Gore was gone either way. He got 12 mil over 3 years to be the starting RB for a team with Andrew Luck heading into his prime.

It wouldnt make sense, having Hyde ready to go, to bring Gore back for that kind of money.

Obviously he doesnt write checks, and I totally agree with the decision to give the majority of the carries to up and coming Hyde. I just believe that Harbs would have made a push to keep Gore and frankly Gore might have been willing to take less to stay here knowing we had a SB caliber head coach.

Harbaugh would have been blamed for their retirement.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Here's the reality. Borland and Wilhoite were our starters last year replacing Willis and Bowman and we were great. This year, Bowman and Wilhoite (year 2 as a starter) will be our starters. Is that even a drop off? Even, at worse, production-wise, right? If Bowman is unable to go, does anyone doubt Baalke won't have the next rookie ILB and/or FA ready to roll?

Chill people. We lost some dynamic players when healthy (Borland/Bowman/Willis) or in their prime (Bowman/Willis) but we haven't lost a beat of production on the field. You don't end the season as the #5 ranked defense and #1 in INT's if there is THAT far of a drop off.

We good! Relax!

We likely draft an ILB in the mid rounds and with Baalke's history of drafting linebackers he'll probably find another stud. Gore had dropped off and it would have been stupid business to overpay him, we drafted Hyde to be his replacement. We finally got that deep threat we've been missing. Typical Baalke stuff trying to find value in the secondary rather than overpay. We lost Willis and Borland which hurts but we've got Bowman coming back. Iupati was a shell of himself last season and we drafted his replacement last year. The sky is not falling. We've lost a lot of NAMES but we ain't dead yet.