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  • thl408
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Originally posted by Jasta:
Presume everyone's seen this already but this was a really nice article.

http://www.espn.com.au/nfl/story/_/id/18585391/illustrating-atlanta-falcons-go-plays-kyle-shanahan-super-bowl-li-2016-nfl-playoffs
From that article:

vs Cover 1 blitz
TE initially lines up wide. With a safety lined up across from him, it confirms man coverage. With the reduced splits from ATL, the well timed/disguised blitz gets a free rusher. QB has to be quick with a blitz coming and no additional blitz pickup (5 routes).
Originally posted by thl408:
One thing to keep an eye on when watching Kyle's offense is how he aligns his WRs. Chip loved to give them 'plus' splits so that the field was horizontally stretched via alignment. Kyle will often give reduced splits for several reasons. Donte Stallworth played WR for Kyle in 2011 (WAS) and was on local radio to share some thoughts about Kyle.
He specifically speaks to WR splits at the 3:06 mark: http://podbay.fm/show/967090792/e/1485273298?autostart=1

This is Chip with two WRs having plus splits (WRs aligned outside the numbers). Chip did this a lot.


Reduced splits (bunched formation) is a natural man coverage buster, and also prevents CBs from pressing the WRs, but it also keeps the WRs away from the sideline so that defenders can't use it as help. Also, it allows the WR to run more variety of routes. If a WR is near the sideline, it eliminates the ability to run quick outs, Corners, and on comeback routes there's more area to work with. The downside is it also bunches the defenders together and that allows the defense to disguise blitzers easier. CB blitzes are in play because they are so close to the QB. Notice most of the plays above have WRs in reduced splits, even against SEA which is a predominantly zone coverage team.

One thing I noticed in watching his film is we'll see the return of some stuff HaRoman did that people had fits about; flexing RB's out wide as receivers. I saw him split both RB's and his FB out wide to isolate Julio on inside defenders in a zone coverage. As most zone coverage is, "man in zone" coverage it gives your best playmakers a huge advantage working against a slower less agile defender inside that zone. It also gives easy reads for the QB. If you have a LB or S out on tat RB/FB then you know it's going to be man-coverage vs zone coverage if it's a CB.

The disadvantage, obviously, is in the run game. Where you take a potential runner or blocker out of the running game, you lose the ability for more explosive running plays or to keep the pass rushers honest.

I also noticed he seems to have an awareness of his own tendencies and how the defense will be prepared for them. In the game against SEA, he ran variations of concepts first, then went to the concepts themselves 2nd. An example of this would be the big catch and run Taylor Gabriel had on a slant route early in the game.

What it was was a variation of a "spacing" concept. If you look at the play and where the slant broke, it was a spacing concept, except instead of Gabriel running a hitch route, he ran a slant. Because they set up the spacing concept the defense was out of position to defend the slant and it was a catch and run of 50 yards or so. The interesting thing was that he didn't show a spacing before that point in the game. It was like he knew the defense would be ready for it. Later in the game, he ran a spacing concept from the exact same formation and personnel and Gabriel ran the classic hitch in that spacing combo.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
One thing I noticed in watching his film is we'll see the return of some stuff HaRoman did that people had fits about; flexing RB's out wide as receivers. I saw him split both RB's and his FB out wide to isolate Julio on inside defenders in a zone coverage. As most zone coverage is, "man in zone" coverage it gives your best playmakers a huge advantage working against a slower less agile defender inside that zone. It also gives easy reads for the QB. If you have a LB or S out on tat RB/FB then you know it's going to be man-coverage vs zone coverage if it's a CB.

The disadvantage, obviously, is in the run game. Where you take a potential runner or blocker out of the running game, you lose the ability for more explosive running plays or to keep the pass rushers honest.

I also noticed he seems to have an awareness of his own tendencies and how the defense will be prepared for them. In the game against SEA, he ran variations of concepts first, then went to the concepts themselves 2nd. An example of this would be the big catch and run Taylor Gabriel had on a slant route early in the game.

What it was was a variation of a "spacing" concept. If you look at the play and where the slant broke, it was a spacing concept, except instead of Gabriel running a hitch route, he ran a slant. Because they set up the spacing concept the defense was out of position to defend the slant and it was a catch and run of 50 yards or so. The interesting thing was that he didn't show a spacing before that point in the game. It was like he knew the defense would be ready for it. Later in the game, he ran a spacing concept from the exact same formation and personnel and Gabriel ran the classic hitch in that spacing combo.

Oh you mean great usage of personnel and formations to unravel coverage and get good matchups. That knock on that particular offense never made sense to me. That in and of itself was about as Walsh/WCO as it gets.

I'm so stoked that we are actually gonna see variety in formations again and not the same 4-5 forms trotted out the entire game.
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
One thing I noticed in watching his film is we'll see the return of some stuff HaRoman did that people had fits about; flexing RB's out wide as receivers. I saw him split both RB's and his FB out wide to isolate Julio on inside defenders in a zone coverage. As most zone coverage is, "man in zone" coverage it gives your best playmakers a huge advantage working against a slower less agile defender inside that zone. It also gives easy reads for the QB. If you have a LB or S out on tat RB/FB then you know it's going to be man-coverage vs zone coverage if it's a CB.

The disadvantage, obviously, is in the run game. Where you take a potential runner or blocker out of the running game, you lose the ability for more explosive running plays or to keep the pass rushers honest.

I also noticed he seems to have an awareness of his own tendencies and how the defense will be prepared for them. In the game against SEA, he ran variations of concepts first, then went to the concepts themselves 2nd. An example of this would be the big catch and run Taylor Gabriel had on a slant route early in the game.

What it was was a variation of a "spacing" concept. If you look at the play and where the slant broke, it was a spacing concept, except instead of Gabriel running a hitch route, he ran a slant. Because they set up the spacing concept the defense was out of position to defend the slant and it was a catch and run of 50 yards or so. The interesting thing was that he didn't show a spacing before that point in the game. It was like he knew the defense would be ready for it. Later in the game, he ran a spacing concept from the exact same formation and personnel and Gabriel ran the classic hitch in that spacing combo.

Oh you mean great usage of personnel and formations to unravel coverage and get good matchups. That knock on that particular offense never made sense to me. That in and of itself was about as Walsh/WCO as it gets.

I'm so stoked that we are actually gonna see variety in formations again and not the same 4-5 forms trotted out the entire game.
I never understood the gripe either. It was always, "he's no real threat out there, it's so stupid!". Yeah, but if you reveal coverage, he's still got to be guarded and you've won before the snap. You're right, too, it's very VERY Bill Walshian to do that.

I'm SOOOOOO stoked to see more than a few formations and a handful of plays per formation. Chip's offense drove me insane about that. His tempo worked when teams didn't know how many plays he had. But, after 3 years, they saw how many plays and concepts he ran and he just didn't have enough diversity to truly keep defenses guessing. More undisciplined or less acute defenses were taken advantage of, but any solid defense knew what he was doing and saw it coming. It was why I believe his numbers, even this year with how bad we were ranked, were still inflated a bit. He puts up big numbers against bad defenses or even mediocre defenses, but can't do squat against a good coordinator(I.E. Fangio). Chip really lost me the first game against Arizona when BG threw a pick because it was the same friggin pass play off the only time the formation was used 3 times in the game.

One thing I really like about Shanahan's offense is that he uses a lot of different personnel packages but not in a "one-trick-pony" way. It was like with Chip and Chryst that we would trot out certain personnel packages to run one or two concepts or certain running plays and that was about it. It made our personnel groups too predictable. With Shanny, i'm seeing multiple running and passing plays from each personnel grouping and many personnel groupings.

I will say this about his run game too - it's very "bubble" oriented. He tends to locate and attack the "bubble" on the line. That largest gap in the line. Most of the time against a 4-3 it's between the 1 and 3 tech's. But, if you watch the SEA game, 75% or so of the runs are at the bubble. In the first 3 quarters, it was about 95%. While predictable, constantly attacking that bubble - as his dad always used to do in the run game as well, forces those lineman to think horizontal first as they're going to have to slant and shift to cover that area. It includes the DE's as well because with that stretch play, they have to be disciplined for the cutback. It's one of the reason, IMO, Ryan only got sacked once against SEA, which has one of the best pass rushes in the league.

What was interesting, was that when it got down to the end of the game, when they needed to run the ball to control the clock, he shifted away from the bubble. It blew me away. It was when they started to seem like they were cracking through the SEA D in the run game. Because he set them up the whole game for a predictable run call and then did the opposite almost the entire 4th quarter and SEA wasn't ready. They were overpursuing and slanting their line towards the bubble and it opened up some lanes to run through.

It showed me he's a lot more than just a fancy shmancy passing game. He really understands how to put the whole offense together to complement itself and set things up throughout the game. That was something his dad was so incredible at. He could dictate certain things to happen at certain times for explosive plays or chunk yardage and seemed unstoppable, at times.

I remember Brent Jones talking about it during the 94 run. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "It was amazing. Shanahan would tell us in meetings about how we would do things and at certain points in the game how it would open something up and we'd get this big chunk play. It sounded crazy because he'd predict it almost to the moment in the game, but the crazy thing was he'd be right and it'd work".
  • thl408
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Originally posted by jonnydel:
(snipped)

I also noticed he seems to have an awareness of his own tendencies and how the defense will be prepared for them. In the game against SEA, he ran variations of concepts first, then went to the concepts themselves 2nd. An example of this would be the big catch and run Taylor Gabriel had on a slant route early in the game.

What it was was a variation of a "spacing" concept. If you look at the play and where the slant broke, it was a spacing concept, except instead of Gabriel running a hitch route, he ran a slant. Because they set up the spacing concept the defense was out of position to defend the slant and it was a catch and run of 50 yards or so. The interesting thing was that he didn't show a spacing before that point in the game. It was like he knew the defense would be ready for it. Later in the game, he ran a spacing concept from the exact same formation and personnel and Gabriel ran the classic hitch in that spacing combo.
That playoff game they played was their second meeting of the year. They played earlier in the regular season and that's why it was important for Shanahan to run variations before running the same plays that SEA might have seen first hand during their regular season meeting. That was a good chess match.
...
I don't think Shanahan's offense will look unfamiliar to us. Geep ran an outside zone scheme in the first half of 2015, and Harbaugh loved using multiple personnel/formations. The WCO terminology is similar to Harbs/Geep. Kyle's offense seems to have little in common with Chip's offense.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
I never understood the gripe either. It was always, "he's no real threat out there, it's so stupid!". Yeah, but if you reveal coverage, he's still got to be guarded and you've won before the snap. You're right, too, it's very VERY Bill Walshian to do that.

I'm SOOOOOO stoked to see more than a few formations and a handful of plays per formation. Chip's offense drove me insane about that. His tempo worked when teams didn't know how many plays he had. But, after 3 years, they saw how many plays and concepts he ran and he just didn't have enough diversity to truly keep defenses guessing. More undisciplined or less acute defenses were taken advantage of, but any solid defense knew what he was doing and saw it coming. It was why I believe his numbers, even this year with how bad we were ranked, were still inflated a bit. He puts up big numbers against bad defenses or even mediocre defenses, but can't do squat against a good coordinator(I.E. Fangio). Chip really lost me the first game against Arizona when BG threw a pick because it was the same friggin pass play off the only time the formation was used 3 times in the game.

One thing I really like about Shanahan's offense is that he uses a lot of different personnel packages but not in a "one-trick-pony" way. It was like with Chip and Chryst that we would trot out certain personnel packages to run one or two concepts or certain running plays and that was about it. It made our personnel groups too predictable. With Shanny, i'm seeing multiple running and passing plays from each personnel grouping and many personnel groupings.

I will say this about his run game too - it's very "bubble" oriented. He tends to locate and attack the "bubble" on the line. That largest gap in the line. Most of the time against a 4-3 it's between the 1 and 3 tech's. But, if you watch the SEA game, 75% or so of the runs are at the bubble. In the first 3 quarters, it was about 95%. While predictable, constantly attacking that bubble - as his dad always used to do in the run game as well, forces those lineman to think horizontal first as they're going to have to slant and shift to cover that area. It includes the DE's as well because with that stretch play, they have to be disciplined for the cutback. It's one of the reason, IMO, Ryan only got sacked once against SEA, which has one of the best pass rushes in the league.

What was interesting, was that when it got down to the end of the game, when they needed to run the ball to control the clock, he shifted away from the bubble. It blew me away. It was when they started to seem like they were cracking through the SEA D in the run game. Because he set them up the whole game for a predictable run call and then did the opposite almost the entire 4th quarter and SEA wasn't ready. They were overpursuing and slanting their line towards the bubble and it opened up some lanes to run through.

It showed me he's a lot more than just a fancy shmancy passing game. He really understands how to put the whole offense together to complement itself and set things up throughout the game. That was something his dad was so incredible at. He could dictate certain things to happen at certain times for explosive plays or chunk yardage and seemed unstoppable, at times.

I remember Brent Jones talking about it during the 94 run. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "It was amazing. Shanahan would tell us in meetings about how we would do things and at certain points in the game how it would open something up and we'd get this big chunk play. It sounded crazy because he'd predict it almost to the moment in the game, but the crazy thing was he'd be right and it'd work".

I'm gonna probably cry tears of joy when on short yardage/goaline situations we bust out one of theses bad boys instead of a 11 or 12 personal gun form.


These are 22 percent personnel with the Z snuck in as the Wing.....vision of Jerry dancing in my head
[ Edited by Niners816 on Feb 1, 2017 at 4:23 PM ]
  • thl408
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Originally posted by Niners816:
I'm gonna probably cry tears of joy when on short yardage/goaline situations we bust out one of theses bad boys instead of a 11 or 12 personal gun form.


These are 22 percent personnel with the Z snuck in as the Wing.....vision of Jerry dancing in my head
You know what's crazy though? The 2016 49ers were 2nd best in the league at red zone TD efficiency at 68%.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Niners816:
I'm gonna probably cry tears of joy when on short yardage/goaline situations we bust out one of theses bad boys instead of a 11 or 12 personal gun form.


These are 22 percent personnel with the Z snuck in as the Wing.....vision of Jerry dancing in my head
You know what's crazy though? The 2016 49ers were 2nd best in the league at red zone TD efficiency at 68%.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

Damn we wasted that number on a s**tty team I wanna say that the 1994 team was like 70% so that number is ridiculously good. Just need to get there more.....in the end, imo the key is variety in formation.
  • thl408
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Here's a basic concept with a lot of dressing to make it an easy read for the QB. (CLE 2014, Kyle is OC)

The red WR starts to motion across, no defender follows, WR lines up back at his original slot WR position. This helps confirm zone coverage.
Slant-Flat vs Cover3


The LG pulls to help sell Power Right. The hard playaction sucks in the two Hook defenders (orange).


The red WR waves his arms in the air as if to say, "I'm open!", even though he's not. This pulls in the curl/flat defender.


The QB completes the playaction and already knows exactly where to go with the ball. Wide open passing lane to the Slant.


The playaction combined with the red WR's antics creates an easy throw.
  • thl408
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Reduced splits was mentioned on the previous page with a reference to the Donte Stallworth interview. Here is an example of a benefit of using a reduced split.

CLE will use a reduced split and stack the two WRs. This will help the WR in back have a clean release (yellow).
vs Cover 2 Man


Yellow is uncontested as he takes an outside release.


Since yellow lined up inside the numbers, there is a lot more area for the Out route to work.


+15 to Gabriel



I like how the flat was a bubble, so it created even more space for that slant when the defender went to defend it.
  • thl408
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Playing zone and being creative with rotation of the defenders can help a DC defeat route concepts. I was curious how and how often Bradley (Saleh) uses different rotations.
One key route to beating Cover3 is the Dig or deep slant that attacks behind the Hook defender and in front of the deep 1/3 defender. This can be done using a 2 or 3 route combination.
(2015) Orange takes the strongside hook defender. Red takes the strong flat defender. Yellow attacks behind.



________________________________
2016 JAC: basically the same concept just run with slightly different routes.
3rd & 4: Even though Orange is on the weak side of the passing formation, Orange is the strong side hook. Blue is weakside hook.


After the snap the two hook defenders kind of swap sides. What this does for orange is have him sliding into the passing lane to take away the deep slant.


Watching the QB's eyes sneaking into the passing lane.


QB sees it and red lights the route. Would have gotten close to INT'ed if he tried.


Thrown incomplete
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The following cut ups are to settle this:


In the red corner, a rookie in his 6th game, weighing in at 6'1, 145 pounds...RR!
And in the blue corner, an Olympian track star, weighing in at 5'10 180 pounds...MG!

Shown are only the snaps where RR was in man coverage against Flash. There were 3 snaps where RR was lined up across from Flash, but was playing zone.

This is a 7 round fight scored by the 10 point must system. Let's get ready to Rumbleee!
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