Perception vs. Reality...

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Didn't even read.....handle and sign up date says it all.

Thanks for the riveting insight.

Hey. I appreciated the insight also. Not sure I would call it riveting, but to each his own.

Originally posted by MarkD:
Last year about this time everyone was commenting Baalke in how much depth we have.

...and now we'll get to see it.

Originally posted by pdizo916:
I think this team is in a retooling mode-a two or three year mode. This kinda reminded me of Seattle of 2010. Then it took them two drafts to be really good again. I don't expect us to be horrible but to be in the middle of the pack. I think by 2017, we'll be a contender again if Baalke waves his magic stick again. BTW, I don't hate Jed nor Baalke. And I don't think Kap is that bad as he showed us in 2014. That was a combination of his players around him sucking really bad, (cough Vernon, boone, others cough) bad offensive play calling, and having the coaching staff turning him into something he's not-a pocket passer. For the life of me, I still don't understand why teams draft quarterbacks for their speed (vince young and kap) to only fail to utilize that speed in the NFL.

I'd wager 10 years or so. Really going to depend on when we get a real HC and if the owner ever wants to spend money in order to win. Finding a coach will probably be more random than anything.

Overall this entire thread is just seeing things through rose tinted glasses. Tons of unknowns so Marvin is going to assume the unknowns are positives. Very easily the entire post could be written assuming the unknowns are negatives (and much more likely IMO, I mean losing 2 HOF caliber players AND Justin Smith is pretty huge). End of the day it is the offseason, people want to talk about stuff but when we play games we will figure it all out. But I definitely agree we will finally see how good Baalke really is. No more McCloughan players, no more Harbaugh. All Baalke at this point.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Didn't even read.....handle and sign up date says it all.

Thanks for the riveting insight.

Hey. I appreciated the insight also. Not sure I would call it riveting, but to each his own.

Wasn't meant to be riveting. I see a handle "bandwagon" that just signed up today, and first sentence is calling some delusional and I automatically think troll.

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
I think this team is in a retooling mode-a two or three year mode. This kinda reminded me of Seattle of 2010. Then it took them two drafts to be really good again. I don't expect us to be horrible but to be in the middle of the pack. I think by 2017, we'll be a contender again if Baalke waves his magic stick again. BTW, I don't hate Jed nor Baalke. And I don't think Kap is that bad as he showed us in 2014. That was a combination of his players around him sucking really bad, (cough Vernon, boone, others cough) bad offensive play calling, and having the coaching staff turning him into something he's not-a pocket passer. For the life of me, I still don't understand why teams draft quarterbacks for their speed (vince young and kap) to only fail to utilize that speed in the NFL.

I'd wager 10 years or so. Really going to depend on when we get a real HC and if the owner ever wants to spend money in order to win. Finding a coach will probably be more random than anything.

Overall this entire thread is just seeing things through rose tinted glasses. Tons of unknowns so Marvin is going to assume the unknowns are positives. Very easily the entire post could be written assuming the unknowns are negatives (and much more likely IMO, I mean losing 2 HOF caliber players AND Justin Smith is pretty huge). End of the day it is the offseason, people want to talk about stuff but when we play games we will figure it all out. But I definitely agree we will finally see how good Baalke really is. No more McCloughan players, no more Harbaugh. All Baalke at this point.

Missed the point there in a big way.

My entire point was that unknowns are exactly that...unknown. People automatically leap to the assumption that they will be bad BECAUSE they are unknown.

You are absolutely correct that its possible NONE of them pan out and the Niners become a perennial loser. My point is only that it hasn't ALREADY happened because we simply don't know. We've traded the known for the unknown, not the known for the abyss.

1. Kap and his deep balls
------ He can throw the deep ball, but he throws it horribly. He doesn't have the touch on those deep balls like other elite QBs. He throws it on a line that can be easily batted down by the defender, see 2013 NFCCG.

2. Frank Gore
------- You've been talkin' s**t on Frank Gore for years now. Hyde is good but he will never be Frank Gore.

3. The impact of Willis
------- Anytime you lose a HOF Caliber player on defense, your D is not going to be as good. It's just simple logic. Willis is a better player than Borland and his alligator arms. There is no doubt about it. Pat even now, is a better athlete than Borland. Not to mention the loss of Pat's leadership. Borland can't make up for that.

4. Our Lovely Jed York
------- I can't criticize York for firing Harbaugh. I wasn't Harbaugh's biggest fan. He was good but flawed and he refused to correct those flaws, see clock/game management. What Jed York is, is a Liar. He lied to this fan base. Not only that, he continues to put his foot in his mouth with the 'Winning with Class BS" not one person is buying it. Jed just needs to learn when to STFU.

BTW...I can add another one....

"The Niners secondary is going to suffer...they've lost both starting CBs"

Actually when the season started the Niners starting Corners were Chris Culliver, Tramaine Brock, and Jimmy Ward as the nickel/

Brock and Ward will be back and Culliver is currently getting very little love from other teams as a FA. Team also still has a lot of cap space and a draft in April.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Missed the point there in a big way.

My entire point was that unknowns are exactly that...unknown. People automatically leap to the assumption that they will be bad BECAUSE they are unknown.

You are absolutely correct that its possible NONE of them pan out and the Niners become a perennial loser. My point is only that it hasn't ALREADY happened because we simply don't know. We've traded the known for the unknown, not the known for the abyss.

Sure and I could win the lottery tomorrow. Anything is possible.

But being realistic hoping that young dudes can replace 3 of the guys from this pic next year is very unlikely. We aren't talking about replacing a single one hit wonder like Goldson or something this year.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by MarkD:
Last year about this time everyone was commenting Baalke in how much depth we have.

...and now we'll get to see it.

Truth be told we already saw a lot of it last season with all the injuries.

I have to mostly agree with Marvin49 ill take it a step further and say when i heard frank gore was not coming back i was happy as hell. He is not that guy he once was. Not even close, I would get excited when Hyde came in and gore sat out because i knew he is and upgrade over the 2014 Frank Gore. Willis leaving was a surprise i didnt know his feet was so much of a problem that he would need to retire but i do know he was getting SMOKED on coverage a lot. And bowman would usually be the dime backer not willis hmmmm why is that. Maybe because bowman as surpassed the 2014 Willis I think so. Now you have Borland which is a stud i knew it coming out of college and it panned out to be true. I see alot of upgrades across the field except for at CORNER thats the only position that im worried about . IF Donte Johnson steps up this season and become a stud along side brock WE WILL BE FINE. the only thing that can get in the niners way is the coaching staff im not sure what they would look like but i tell you this. If the defense stay top 10 and the offense gets ANY BETTER than sorry ass 2014 offense the niners will take the division with no problems. Man i hope the passing game is better next year. NO MORE frank gore run run 3-8 pass punt.

Originally posted by 9erReign:
I'd wager 10 years or so. Really going to depend on when we get a real HC and if the owner ever wants to spend money in order to win. Finding a coach will probably be more random than anything.

Overall this entire thread is just seeing things through rose tinted glasses. Tons of unknowns so Marvin is going to assume the unknowns are positives. Very easily the entire post could be written assuming the unknowns are negatives (and much more likely IMO, I mean losing 2 HOF caliber players AND Justin Smith is pretty huge). End of the day it is the offseason, people want to talk about stuff but when we play games we will figure it all out. But I definitely agree we will finally see how good Baalke really is. No more McCloughan players, no more Harbaugh. All Baalke at this point.

His point was stated in his first sentence.......

And how do you know if Tomsula isn't a real HC. The same thing was said about Baalke. SMH

Originally posted by Garcia:
1. Kap and his deep balls
------ He can throw the deep ball, but he throws it horribly. He doesn't have the touch on those deep balls like other elite QBs. He throws it on a line that can be easily batted down by the defender, see 2013 NFCCG.

2. Frank Gore
------- You've been talkin' s**t on Frank Gore for years now. Hyde is good but he will never be Frank Gore.

3. The impact of Willis
------- Anytime you lose a HOF Caliber player on defense, your D is not going to be as good. It's just simple logic. Willis is a better player than Borland and his alligator arms. There is no doubt about it. Pat even now, is a better athlete than Borland. Not to mention the loss of Pat's leadership. Borland can't make up for that.

4. Our Lovely Jed York
------- I can't criticize York for firing Harbaugh. I wasn't Harbaugh's biggest fan. He was good but flawed and he refused to correct those flaws, see clock/game management. What Jed York is, is a Liar. He lied to this fan base. Not only that, he continues to put his foot in his mouth with the 'Winning with Class BS" not one person is buying it. Jed just needs to learn when to STFU.

1) Sigh. Yes...he doesn't have the high arching pass that others do, but he's been very successful completing passes down the field in the past.

2) Frank is my favorite Niner of all time. I've said every year he was losing it because I hoped he'd prove me wrong. It was a running joke. If you don't believe me, ask other posters. I'd even elude to it IN THE POST.

3) I love Pat too and I want him back....but I think you are short-changing Borland a bit. In their primes, it isn't even close. Now? We'll see.

4) York? Not happy with the way this thing has been handled, but peeps are WAY, WAY overreacting to it.

Originally posted by evo9mrjr:
I have to mostly agree with Marvin49 ill take it a step further and say when i heard frank gore was not coming back i was happy as hell. He is not that guy he once was. Not even close, I would get excited when Hyde came in and gore sat out because i knew he is and upgrade over the 2014 Frank Gore. Willis leaving was a surprise i didnt know his feet was so much of a problem that he would need to retire but i do know he was getting SMOKED on coverage a lot. And bowman would usually be the dime backer not willis hmmmm why is that. Maybe because bowman as surpassed the 2014 Willis I think so. Now you have Borland which is a stud i knew it coming out of college and it panned out to be true. I see alot of upgrades across the field except for at CORNER thats the only position that im worried about . IF Donte Johnson steps up this season and become a stud along side brock WE WILL BE FINE. the only thing that can get in the niners way is the coaching staff im not sure what they would look like but i tell you this. If the defense stay top 10 and the offense gets ANY BETTER than sorry ass 2014 offense the niners will take the division with no problems. Man i hope the passing game is better next year. NO MORE frank gore run run 3-8 pass punt.

I knew this was Gore's last season. The writing was on the wall. The same went to Patrick. I thought his last season with us was going to be in 2015. I wouldn't be surprised if Vernon gets traded this year.

Nice write up as always Marvin...
Reminded me of this: " There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."

Originally posted by BandWagon:
Eh sort of a delusional thread...

1) Deep ball... intermediate ball... short ball... fade... post... it all doesn't matter if your quarterback struggles to read defenses and locks on to targets without going to his progressions. Colin's success as a thrower relies on set streak routes where he anticipates a single target being open based on formation vs what the defense is initially showing. He shows no ability to improvise as a thrower when his first option isn't available. Who knows, maybe the new coaching can be a big boost for him in this regard but he is a one trick pony in the passing game and was thoroughly exposed because of it. Deep balls are the least of your concern.

2) I kind of agree with you here... but I hate to break it to you, the running struggled WITH Frank Gore. I thought Hyde was going to be better than he showed last season and who knows, he could be better in his sophomore campaign. But... defending the 49ers offense is simple when the opposing defense can stack the box when they don't respect the ability of your QB to read defenses. The 49ers used to rely on a complex zone running attack that worked until opposing defenses key'd in on its tendencies. Combine the predictability of the running attack, likely suspension of Bruce Miller, and loss of Mike Iupati and it's tough to see how the running attack could get better. However I do think this coaching staff is better offensively scheme wise than the previous regime.

3) Boy... who knows. You lost your best corner in Perrish Cox. You lost your best lineback in Patrick Willis. (probably) You lost you best D-lineman in Justin Smith. Who really knows about Boreland. He had some good games and he had some not so good games. You can't bank on him to be a 5 time all pro and 8 time pro bowler and that is truly what you are giving up with the loss of Willis. Many say Aldon Smith is purely a product of Justin Smith's abilities on the left side of the line so it's going to be interesting to see if he is as effective with Justin Smith gone. The 49ers literally have no corners of note... as I mentioned Cox was the best corner for the Niners last year and thats kind of scary. Better hope that Marcus Peters or Trae Waynes is there in the first. Tank Carradine was a surprise last season and played well so I guess it's going to be fun to see what he does as a full time starter. Also, as I said that this new coaching staff could be a plus in offensive production... there is no way this coaching staff is better than Harbaughs from a defensive perspective.

4) I sort of agree with you here. Harbaugh didn't really draft or sign a lot of the main talent that lead to the NFC Championship and Super Bowl runs. York also couldn't really control the players who got hurt or retired so that's not really his fault. I think the way he handled the situation with Harbaugh is more of a black eye than the fact that he fired Harbaugh. That coupled with the loss and apparent angst of some key players only added to that stigma.

.