Some Perspective

If Bowman returns to pre injury form...
Bowman and Borland would be one of, if not the best MLB teams in the NFL .

Wagner and wright? Kuechley and Davis?

Originally posted by fip24:
If Bowman returns to pre injury form...
Bowman and Borland would be one of, if not the best MLB teams in the NFL .

Wagner and wright? Kuechley and Davis?

Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:

Originally posted by fip24:
If Bowman returns to pre injury form...
Bowman and Borland would be one of, if not the best MLB teams in the NFL .

Wagner and wright? Kuechley and Davis?

Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

bowman and willis is better

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:

Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

You guys still think our LBs will still be as good without RayMac & Justin Smith playing in front of them?

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

Totally.

Rationally, even if Bowman doesn't come back, Borland & Wilhoite started next to each other basically all year together.

And they produced:
Wilhoite - 87 tackles, 1 FF, 2 INT's, 6 PD's, and 5 STF's.
Borland (in 9 games) - 101 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR (a big one), 2 INT's, 5 PD's and 11 STF's. That's a projected 180 tackles!

Did none of you guys watch games last year? We were STILL a top 5 defense w/o Bowman AND Willis. We'll be alright.

And yes, if Bowman and Willis are cut/retire, we'll save $8,268,000 and $7,654,000 (2 of our 3 highest paid players).


^^^ and this is our WORST case scenario.

Willis - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2012: 120 tackles, .5 sacks, 1 FR, 2 INT's, 9 PD's and 5 STF's.
Bowman - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2013: 145 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 FR (2 FR), 2 INT's, 8 PD's and 6 STF's.

Point? Same tackle-total of Willis-Bowman in their peak year added together and Wilhoite-Borland together in their first year.

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

You guys still think our LBs will still be as good without RayMac & Justin Smith playing in front of them?

I think they have a chance to be better with Dial and Tank on base downs (run downs) and Dockett and Tank tearing s**t up on pass rush downs plus they can slide inside and be more "active" vs. playing vanilla under Fangio (straight up). I think Mangini will be more creative with his front 7 (hope so at least).

Originally posted by verb1der:

You guys still think our LBs will still be as good without RayMac & Justin Smith playing in front of them?

Never even implied that. No doubt the strength of the d-line is critical and that has to be addressed. I'm just looking at the talent at LB. I think that unit is still well stocked. The state of the d-line cannot be used to knock the LBs.

With Borland on the field on first down all a team would have to do is come out in it's base formation (2 RB's, 1 TE, and 2 WR's) and then shift to a 5 wide set.
Just throw to the guy that Borland is covering from that point.

Willis is a huge loss! We don't have a guy on this team that can truly fill his shoes.

Can'y say I blame him for retiring though...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

You guys still think our LBs will still be as good without RayMac & Justin Smith playing in front of them?

I think they have a chance to be better with Dial and Tank on base downs (run downs) and Dockett and Tank tearing s**t up on pass rush downs plus they can slide inside and be more "active" vs. playing vanilla under Fangio (straight up). I think Mangini will be more creative with his front 7 (hope so at least).

I hope you're right, because I think Justin Smith made our LBs jobs easy. Smith took on two defenders most of the time, do we even have anyone who can replace him? I highly doubt it, and that's why I believe production in the LB core is going to take a nose dive.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:

Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

Totally.

Rationally, even if Bowman doesn't come back, Borland & Wilhoite started next to each other basically all year together.

And they produced:
Wilhoite - 87 tackles, 1 FF, 2 INT's, 6 PD's, and 5 STF's.
Borland (in 9 games) - 101 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR (a big one), 2 INT's, 5 PD's and 11 STF's. That's a projected 180 tackles!

Did none of you guys watch games last year? We were STILL a top 5 defense w/o Bowman AND Willis. We'll be alright.

And yes, if Bowman and Willis are cut/retire, we'll save $8,268,000 and $7,654,000 (2 of our 3 highest paid players).


^^^ and this is our WORST case scenario.

Willis - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2012: 120 tackles, .5 sacks, 1 FR, 2 INT's, 9 PD's and 5 STF's.
Bowman - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2013: 145 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 FR (2 FR), 2 INT's, 8 PD's and 6 STF's.

Point? Same tackle-total of Willis-Bowman in their peak year together and Wilhoite-Borland.

Nice post NC. I'm all in with Borland. I think he's a stud. Wilhoite was solid, but Bowman would be a huge upgrade if he's healthy. He's an all-pro. Looking forward to seeing him back on the field. But you're right, the situation at LB is not grim. We have good options available post-Willis.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

Totally.

Rationally, even if Bowman doesn't come back, Borland & Wilhoite started next to each other basically all year together.

And they produced:
Wilhoite - 87 tackles, 1 FF, 2 INT's, 6 PD's, and 5 STF's.
Borland (in 9 games) - 101 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR (a big one), 2 INT's, 5 PD's and 11 STF's. That's a projected 180 tackles!

Did none of you guys watch games last year? We were STILL a top 5 defense w/o Bowman AND Willis. We'll be alright.

And yes, if Bowman and Willis are cut/retire, we'll save $8,268,000 and $7,654,000 (2 of our 3 highest paid players).


^^^ and this is our WORST case scenario.

Willis - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2012: 120 tackles, .5 sacks, 1 FR, 2 INT's, 9 PD's and 5 STF's.
Bowman - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2013: 145 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 FR (2 FR), 2 INT's, 8 PD's and 6 STF's.

Point? Same tackle-total of Willis-Bowman in their peak year added together and Wilhoite-Borland together in their first year.

Keep in mind, this was with Vic Fangio.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
With Borland on the field on first down all a team would have to do is come out in it's base formation (2 RB's, 1 TE, and 2 WR's) and then shift to a 5 wide set.
Just throw to the guy that Borland is covering from that point.

Willis is a huge loss! We don't have a guy on this team that can truly fill his shoes.

Can'y say I blame him for retiring though...

Willis' ONLY weakness was his coverage abilities...that is actually Bowman's big strength over Willis...so much in fact we'd sub out Willis for Bowman in the 'big nickle' for coverage. Now Willis is 30 and has a smashed up toe. That said, Willis was still probably better athletically for coverage in his prime.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Wright and Davis both play outside.

There is no better 3-4 ILB tandem in the league than Bowman and Borland.

Agree. Crazy we can lose Willis and still have the best ILB tandem in the league. Losing Willis unexpectedly still hurts. Emotions are wild. Bowman and Borland are studs. We'll be fine.

Totally.

Rationally, even if Bowman doesn't come back, Borland & Wilhoite started next to each other basically all year together.

And they produced:
Wilhoite - 87 tackles, 1 FF, 2 INT's, 6 PD's, and 5 STF's.
Borland (in 9 games) - 101 tackles, 1 sack, 1 FR (a big one), 2 INT's, 5 PD's and 11 STF's. That's a projected 180 tackles!

Did none of you guys watch games last year? We were STILL a top 5 defense w/o Bowman AND Willis. We'll be alright.

And yes, if Bowman and Willis are cut/retire, we'll save $8,268,000 and $7,654,000 (2 of our 3 highest paid players).


^^^ and this is our WORST case scenario.

Willis - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2012: 120 tackles, .5 sacks, 1 FR, 2 INT's, 9 PD's and 5 STF's.
Bowman - the last time he played all 16 games was in 2013: 145 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 FR (2 FR), 2 INT's, 8 PD's and 6 STF's.

Point? Same tackle-total of Willis-Bowman in their peak year added together and Wilhoite-Borland together in their first year.

Willis does so much more than tackle. Dude is so underrated in coverage. And he's also the spiritual leader of that defense

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Keep in mind, this was with Vic Fangio.

Hold on, I'm plugging in my time-machine.