[ Edited by BuddyRyans46 on Jan 22, 2015 at 6:45 PM ]
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Any chance we see the 46 Defense this season?
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Jan 22, 2015 at 6:42 PM
- BuddyRyans46
- Member
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Does anyone else hope that we incorporate some elements of the 46 Defense into his overall defensive scheme next season?
Jan 22, 2015 at 6:46 PM
- Since07
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Dude are you a bears fan on the 9ers forum?? I loved how badass the 46 was but hasnt it been figured out?
I bet you wanted Rex to be our HC lol
I bet you wanted Rex to be our HC lol
Jan 22, 2015 at 6:51 PM
- Phoenix49ers
- Moderator
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Its time to stop making threads.
Jan 22, 2015 at 7:26 PM
- LifelongNiner
- Veteran
- Posts: 22,326
Da fuq.....
On a Niners board, nothing about the Chicago Bears defense conjures any fear. A better idea would be getting a defensive genius as DC (Bill Belichek in the 80s) and try to imitate the New York Giants if you're looking for some old defense to emulate.
On a Niners board, nothing about the Chicago Bears defense conjures any fear. A better idea would be getting a defensive genius as DC (Bill Belichek in the 80s) and try to imitate the New York Giants if you're looking for some old defense to emulate.
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:00 PM
- bors
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Just curious.what was the downfall of the 4 6. @what were some of the main aspects of the 46.always like to here a bit o history
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:14 PM
- DelCed2486
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Originally posted by BuddyRyans46:
Does anyone else hope that we incorporate some elements of the 46 Defense into his overall defensive scheme next season?
No, because it was figured out and made irrelevant circa 1987.
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:28 PM
- DelCed2486
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Originally posted by bors:
Just curious.what was the downfall of the 4 6. @what were some of the main aspects of the 46.always like to here a bit o history
Bill Walsh more or less came up with the blueprint to beating it in the '84 NFCCG...neutralize their pass rush and use quick timing routes/slants.
Of course the Bears D was one of the best ever the next season which included beating the 49ers, as they still had great players to run the 46, the rules didn't so heavily favor/invite passing, and many offenses were still run-first and didn't have the personnel to utilize the WCO concepts that were the 46's Kryptonite. But as the Bears got older, lost players, and offenses evolved and figured out how to beat the 46 defense, it pretty much went extinct.
EDIT: To answer your question on main aspects, it was basically a 4-3 but what really stood out were both OLB's would usually BOTH line up on the weak side, and then they'd bring their SS down to essentially play LB...and they usually rushed a minimum of 5 guys, sometimes 7, 8, even 9. About that SS, it was Doug Plank who was #46, which is where the term came from, not that it was a "4-6" defensive alignment which is a common misconception.
[ Edited by DelCed2486 on Jan 22, 2015 at 8:39 PM ]
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:31 PM
- Phoenix49ers
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Originally posted by bors:
Just curious.what was the downfall of the 4 6. @what were some of the main aspects of the 46.always like to here a bit o history
It became progressively easier to pass on. If you didn't get to the QB almost instantly, you were going to get lit up. Short dropbacks, having a QB that can handle pressure in his face and receivers who could create separation would beat that defense fairly easily.
It didn't really disappear from the NFL, Buddy Ryan continued to use it quite a bit as did some other coaches, even today you'll see it from various teams but it was never even close to being as effective as it was during that 1985 season. Considering how pass happy the NFL has become, its not something you could run as a base defense anymore.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 22, 2015 at 8:36 PM ]
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:32 PM
- Jcool
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Jan 22, 2015 at 8:34 PM
- Phoenix49ers
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Here's a good article on how the 49ers beat the 46 defense.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-01-07/sports/8501020199_1_bears-49er-guard-randy-cross-keith-fahnhorst
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-01-07/sports/8501020199_1_bears-49er-guard-randy-cross-keith-fahnhorst
SAN FRANCISCO — Keith Fahnhorst thought the Bears were in trouble early, and he didn`t mean in the first quarter.
In an exultant San Francisco locker room, the 49ers` offensive tackle was relishing a 23-0 treeing of the Bears Sunday at Candlestick Park. And while he wasn`t laughing at the Bears, Fahnhorst was smiling at them pretty good.
The victory meant a conference championship, a 17-1 record and a trip down Highway 101 to the Super Bowl in Palo Alto, but, according to Fahnhorst, it meant a lot more than that.
``I really thought the Bears put one step into the grave when that stuff that Buddy Ryan said last year came up,`` said Fahnhorst.
After the Bears` 13-3 victory in November, 1983, the Bears` defensive coordinator was quoted as saying he thought the 49ers` offense was
``stereotyped.``
THE LOCALS were reminded of the remark after the Bears whacked the Washington Redskins last week, but Fahnhorst said he didn`t think Bill Walsh, the Niners` head coach, had to be reminded.
``I know he remembered,`` Fahnhorst said with a grin. ``Bill was quite intense this week. I mean, he was very, very intense this week.``
It showed. Walsh`s offensive line neutralized the pass rush, pushed the big, bad Bears off the line of scrimmage and made Richard Dent look like an eighth-round draft choice.
The 4.5 sack-a-game average was reduced to 3 against Joe Montana, and only one of those was legit.
For Bears` fans, the rest of the numbers ring as melancholy as the ones you get from the IRS. On an average Sunday in the `84 season, the 49ers collected 29 points, won the game, rushed for 154 yards and passed for 244.
AGAINST THE most celebrated defense in the National Football League, the 49ers scored 23 points, won the game, rushed for 159 yards and passed for 228. Business as usual, in every sense of the word.
There won`t be any mention of the Bears` offense in this account because the Bears didn`t choose to bring an offense to the National Football Conference title game. But when Mike Ditka`s troops reflect on a successful season with an unhappy ending, they might consider the yuks resounding in the basement of Candlestick Park.
Asked if the Bears` defense seemed frustrated in the second half, 49er guard Randy Cross maintained that the gnashing of teeth had commenced far earlier.
``They were frustrated in the first quarter,`` Cross said. ``We were moving the football, even though we screwed up a couple of times and didn`t get in the end zone.
``I think they knew we were the better football team, and I think they knew it early.``
WALSH LUSTED after this conference title, however, and he was obsessed with the notion that the Bears might again make his team look bad, as they did a year ago.
``I knew we could shut them down,`` he said. ``I didn`t know we could shut them out.
``As far as their defense is concerned, what happened is a tribute to our players and coaches and to the intensity of our preparation. We knew that if we could protect Joe (Montana), we`d be all right.``
Cross was tougher, and perhaps more honest, in his assessment.
``They`re real good, but they`re not Supermen,`` he said. ``The hype for this game was real overrated, partly because the Bears had a great day against a so-so Washington (offensive) line.
``Those guys were beat up and playing out of position, and we figured that man-to-man we matched up better.``
No brag, just fact, as they say on the street.
THE BEARS` first journey to the land of the conference championships might have been different with Jim McMahon at quarterback, though you`d better not carry that argument to the 49ers.
``The Bears were the right team to be here,`` said defensive back Eric Wright, ``but that fat-mouthing they were doing about their defense kind of upset us. I mean, we gave up fewer points than anybody in the league, didn`t we?``
They did, and, worse, the 49ers exposed every glitch in the Bears`
operation. ``We were able to drill them,`` said Cross, ``even when Joey was throwing the interceptions.
``On the offensive line, we secured everything inside the tackles and made them go outside with that pressure. By the time they got there, Joe had gotten rid of the football.``
A quick, three-step drop by Montana befuddled the Bears early on, although the quarterback may have offered up his worst 30 minutes of football this season before intermission.
IT IS A MEASURE of the difference between the teams that the Bears were unable to exploit the 49ers` mistakes, particularly the two interceptions charged to Montana in the first half.
``We knew we couldn`t give the Bears` defense time to work on us,`` said Fahnhorst, ``so we didn`t let them.
``There weren`t any tricks for dealing with the `46` or the `flop defense` or whatever you call it.
``We didn`t do anything different. We were simply well prepared, and the game was won by the system we developed for beating other teams.``
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:50 PM
- LasVegasWally
- Veteran
- Posts: 24,247
I hate all the Ryans
Buddy sucked as a HC - ALL mouth
Buddy sucked as a HC - ALL mouth
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:51 PM
- sincalfaithful
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Any chance this thread gets locked
Jan 22, 2015 at 8:54 PM
- Bluesbro
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Jan 22, 2015 at 9:18 PM
- 49erKing
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Here's my idea of an awesome new defensive scheme but it's entirely dependent on the right players.
It's called the 1-10
1 HUGE D-lineman with a wingspan of a city block - I'm talking someone eight feet tall and 600 pounds with no more than 20% body fat. Someone extremely athletic, all muscle, someone who can bench press 225lbs 100 times -- someone who can keep both the center and two guard at bay with either hand. The trick here is that he'll dictate which way the line moves allowing the 10 linebacker/corner tweeners behind him to react faster to where the ball is going. This position will also be responsible for disrupting the passing lanes of the QB with his ridiculous reach.
Behind the one lineman are 10 linebacker/corner/safety tweeners -- super fast athletic specimens who will vary their formations. But it will almost mean double coverage on most receiving threats, a ton of blitzes, run support help, and a couple of spys.
There's no doubt the key to the success to this formation is the lone defensive tackle. A team will be lucky to have one such specimen -- if they happen to have have two you can pretty much guarantee a super bowl win.
It's called the 1-10
1 HUGE D-lineman with a wingspan of a city block - I'm talking someone eight feet tall and 600 pounds with no more than 20% body fat. Someone extremely athletic, all muscle, someone who can bench press 225lbs 100 times -- someone who can keep both the center and two guard at bay with either hand. The trick here is that he'll dictate which way the line moves allowing the 10 linebacker/corner tweeners behind him to react faster to where the ball is going. This position will also be responsible for disrupting the passing lanes of the QB with his ridiculous reach.
Behind the one lineman are 10 linebacker/corner/safety tweeners -- super fast athletic specimens who will vary their formations. But it will almost mean double coverage on most receiving threats, a ton of blitzes, run support help, and a couple of spys.
There's no doubt the key to the success to this formation is the lone defensive tackle. A team will be lucky to have one such specimen -- if they happen to have have two you can pretty much guarantee a super bowl win.
[ Edited by fortyninerglory on Jan 22, 2015 at 9:19 PM ]
Jan 22, 2015 at 9:18 PM
- Niners99
- Veteran
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Somebody just ban this dude already.
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