Zone blocking scheme

Originally posted by thl408:
While I don't doubt that Boone and ADavis can be used in a ZBS, when talking about the strengths and weaknesses of a player, I don't think putting them in a ZBS would be playing to their strengths. It's like sending Boldin on a Go route. Can he get open? Sure he can, but a Go route wouldn't be playing to his strength as a player. ADavis has had trouble blocking speedy pass rushers his entire career. One reason for this is slow feet, which is beneficial to being a good ZBS Olineman. Boone is the one I'd be most worried about though. It's about being quick on their feet while in a standing up posture, not when exploding out of a three point stance, which I think they are fine at.

Boone on the move looks painful, knock knees

Originally posted by JerryRice1848:
Well if you want Kubiak he runs one helluva zone blocking scheme

He sure does. 1000 yard no name backs for all those years and took an un-drafted RB in Arian Foster and propelled him into an all pro. Justin Forrsett has been a journeyman in most regard but has had a career year. No to mention Dallas runs a zone run game (Murray) and Seattle. Its a one cut and go. Slow to the hole, run to daylight run game. OL blocks a zone which is one play side gap over, double to the 2nd level (Linebackers), RB cut on over pursuit or take the outside if we can get the edge.

Originally posted by KaeptinKrunch:
I think our oline would be fine. My question Is wouldn't the ZBS mean no more Bruce miller?

No! Miller could become a Rathman type FB, catching more out of the backfield aside from running. Depends on how the new coach's offense works but I could see Gore, Hyde, Hunter and Miller all being good. Gore's ability to pick his way through holes is good in any scheme.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
We have big guys, but they're all pretty athletic. Nobody has concrete feet, which is the most important thing. Osemele on Baltimore is 6'5" 330 and he functions well in the scheme. If you're a good football player and can move laterally, you can play in the scheme. Staley, Kilgore, Boone, Davis, Looney, Martin all can make the transition. I even think Iupati would find a way to be effective, but he's likely gone next year.

Agree for the most part. Ability to learn to work together, move fluidly staying low, blocking on the move, and having great communication are all important. I would like to hear from any zoners who played in both man and zone recently to hear any crossover or pros and cons. My experience is somewhat dated and was all what I'd call zone. We cross blocked, doubled, pulled on almost every play...reading and reacting together with no need for verbal communication in most cases. Of course, our line was usually twenty pounds per man lighter than the DLs we played. But we knocked the snot out of them with speed and leverage...great coaching really matters!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
This is music to my ears! The OL seemed so confused this year and I think a shift to a zone blocking scheme would be a great step forward. Most of the 9er linemen could adapt and those who couldn't would be able to get by at least as well as they did this year. Boone was a train wreck most of the year so if he can't make the change...no loss. Staley, Thomas, M Martin, Kilgore, Davis, would make a really good zone blocking line...not sure about the backups--J Martin, Farrell, etc. Here ar a couple of sites that those unfamiliar with zone blocking can use to acquaint themselves with the basics.

Zone Blocking-Alex Gibbs

Fooball 201--Zone Blocking

Great references. I see a lot of potential for the ZBS with just the personnel we have now.

LOT: Alex Boone; Jonathan Martin, Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti - Alex finally get to be a T on the backside and even Martin may be more ideal for this system.
LG: Brandon Thomas; Marcus Martin & Andrew Tiller - lots of youth here to seal off the back door and help in short yardage and goal line situations.
C: Daniel Kilgore; Dillon Farrell - smaller, more athletic and nimble C's will be needed now.
RG: Anthony Davis; Joe Looney - Davis and his excellent ability to seal and get to the next level will be critical here.
ROT: Joe Staley; (Luke Marquardt) - Not 100% sure if Luke is still with us but athletically, this kid has it. He's also been on I.R. two straight years due to bad luck.

MB on Luke: Youth Watch: My goodness, Marquardt is a striking figure. If I were filming a Viking battle scene, he'd be the first guy off the gangway when the invaders' ship arrives at the beach. He's 6-8, 315 pounds with nary an ounce of fat. The question, of course, is whether he just looks tough. Marquardt played at little-known Azusa Pacific University in Southern California, but a foot injury washed out his senior season and he went undrafted in April. He had a follow-up surgery on the foot that month and was merely an observer during the 49ers offseason sessions. He was cleared to practice for three weeks in November but will have the benefit of a full offseason this year. He won't be hard to pick out during OTAs and will be intriguing to watch.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2014/02/look-ahead-49ers-to-tap-depth-no-draft-on-offensive-line.html#storylink=cpy
I think ideally, your best ZBS personnel out of the gate would be: Boone - Thomas - Kilgore - Davis - Staley

I would imagine we'd run a bunch to the right side and you want numble feet, IQ, vision, ability to anticipate, technique, etc. there. With Kilgore/Davis/Staley sealing and moving onto the next level with Boone and Thomas sealing the backside, I see potential for big things happening esp. with Hyde/Hunter. Another guy to consider in this mix besides Luke is M.Martin as one of his best traits is his ability to block the initial guy out and hit the second level.

One this that many forget, is conditioning. If we move to a ZBS, diet and training will be VERY different and you will see some serious drops in weight for some of these boys but their technique and quickness should start to excel. Guys like Iupati and perhaps, Looney, would no longer work as Iupati has made an entire career out of doing one thing well...pull blocking to the right side. He doesn't seem very bright though IMHO. I just don't see him as a good fit for the ZBS.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Great references. I see a lot of potential for the ZBS with just the personnel we have now.

LOT: Alex Boone; Jonathan Martin, Chris Martin & Fou Fonoti - Alex finally get to be a T on the backside and even Martin may be more ideal for this system.
LG: Brandon Thomas; Marcus Martin & Andrew Tiller - lots of youth here to seal off the back door and help in short yardage and goal line situations.
C: Daniel Kilgore; Dillon Farrell - smaller, more athletic and nimble C's will be needed now.
RG: Anthony Davis; Joe Looney - Davis and his excellent ability to seal and get to the next level will be critical here.
ROT: Joe Staley; (Luke Marquardt) - Not 100% sure if Luke is still with us but athletically, this kid has it. He's also been on I.R. two straight years due to bad luck.

MB on Luke: Youth Watch: My goodness, Marquardt is a striking figure. If I were filming a Viking battle scene, he'd be the first guy off the gangway when the invaders' ship arrives at the beach. He's 6-8, 315 pounds with nary an ounce of fat. The question, of course, is whether he just looks tough. Marquardt played at little-known Azusa Pacific University in Southern California, but a foot injury washed out his senior season and he went undrafted in April. He had a follow-up surgery on the foot that month and was merely an observer during the 49ers offseason sessions. He was cleared to practice for three weeks in November but will have the benefit of a full offseason this year. He won't be hard to pick out during OTAs and will be intriguing to watch.

Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2014/02/look-ahead-49ers-to-tap-depth-no-draft-on-offensive-line.html#storylink=cpy
I think ideally, your best ZBS personnel out of the gate would be: Boone - Thomas - Kilgore - Davis - Staley

I would imagine we'd run a bunch to the right side and you want numble feet, IQ, vision, ability to anticipate, technique, etc. there. With Kilgore/Davis/Staley sealing and moving onto the next level with Boone and Thomas sealing the backside, I see potential for big things happening esp. with Hyde/Hunter. Another guy to consider in this mix besides Luke is M.Martin as one of his best traits is his ability to block the initial guy out and hit the second level.

One this that many forget, is conditioning. If we move to a ZBS, diet and training will be VERY different and you will see some serious drops in weight for some of these boys but their technique and quickness should start to excel. Guys like Iupati and perhaps, Looney, would no longer work as Iupati has made an entire career out of doing one thing well...pull blocking to the right side. He doesn't seem very bright though IMHO. I just don't see him as a good fit for the ZBS.

I think Looney would do fine, he excelled in the same sort of scheme while he was at Wake Forest.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Looney would do fine, he excelled in the same sort of scheme while he was at Wake Forest.

That probably explains why he did so well as a pull-G for us. Drop some weight and this could be another key reserve for us!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Looney would do fine, he excelled in the same sort of scheme while he was at Wake Forest.

That probably explains why he did so well as a pull-G for us. Drop some weight and this could be another key reserve for us!

Are yall kidding about Looney? He has looked awful in every meaningful snap he's played. He will be lucky to have a roster spot next season.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Looney would do fine, he excelled in the same sort of scheme while he was at Wake Forest.

That probably explains why he did so well as a pull-G for us. Drop some weight and this could be another key reserve for us!

Are yall kidding about Looney? He has looked awful in every meaningful snap he's played. He will be lucky to have a roster spot next season.

Hey, if he pulls a Sweezy on a Seahawk... I think he'll be well worth keeping around.

One other thing to ZBS is that it helps the playaction game much more. For a defender, it's harder to tell if a play is a run play or playaction when the offense is known as a team that is predominantly ZBS. This is why on all packaged plays, the Oline is zone blocking. You see Peyton and RW do this all the time as they fake the stretch play (outside zone), they show the ball to the RB, the entire Oline flows one direction like a normal outside zone run play, then the QB pulls it back and it's playaction. To the defenders, everything looks like a outside zone run play, until the last second when the QB pulls the ball back and completes his dropback.

For a team using playaction that is known as a power blocking team, if the defenders don't see the Oline fire upfield or don't see a guard pulling, it can alert the defenders that it is playaction based on how the Oline is not quickly firing upfield like how they would on a normal power blocking run play.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think Looney would do fine, he excelled in the same sort of scheme while he was at Wake Forest.

That probably explains why he did so well as a pull-G for us. Drop some weight and this could be another key reserve for us!

Are yall kidding about Looney? He has looked awful in every meaningful snap he's played. He will be lucky to have a roster spot next season.

A little dramatic don't you think? In pre season, he and Martin, believe it or not, were our two best players by far. Looney then got spot duty all year but one thing he is very good at is pull blocking. When watching him on film, that is a big strength of his. That ability to move into space through and around guys could serve him well in a ZBS.

Originally posted by thl408:
One other thing to ZBS is that it helps the playaction game much more. For a defender, it's harder to tell if a play is a run play or playaction when the offense is known as a team that is predominantly ZBS. This is why on all packaged plays, the Oline is zone blocking. You see Peyton and RW do this all the time as they fake the stretch play (outside zone), they show the ball to the RB, the entire Oline flows one direction like a normal outside zone run play, then the QB pulls it back and it's playaction. To the defenders, everything looks like a outside zone run play, until the last second when the QB pulls the ball back and completes his dropback.

For a team using playaction that is known as a power blocking team, if the defenders don't see the Oline fire upfield or don't see a guard pulling, it can alert the defenders that it is playaction based on how the Oline is not quickly firing upfield like how they would on a normal power blocking run play.

Terrific point!

Originally posted by thl408:
One other thing to ZBS is that it helps the playaction game much more. For a defender, it's harder to tell if a play is a run play or playaction when the offense is known as a team that is predominantly ZBS. This is why on all packaged plays, the Oline is zone blocking. You see Peyton and RW do this all the time as they fake the stretch play (outside zone), they show the ball to the RB, the entire Oline flows one direction like a normal outside zone run play, then the QB pulls it back and it's playaction. To the defenders, everything looks like a outside zone run play, until the last second when the QB pulls the ball back and completes his dropback.

For a team using playaction that is known as a power blocking team, if the defenders don't see the Oline fire upfield or don't see a guard pulling, it can alert the defenders that it is playaction based on how the Oline is not quickly firing upfield like how they would on a normal power blocking run play.

Yes, and might explain why many QBs seem to have more success with playaction than the niners do. One key is to have formation and stances look the same for many different plays...keeping the defense from being able to read cues. I know many complained on the zone about that over the past few years. It does take a coachable group of players though.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Are yall kidding about Looney? He has looked awful in every meaningful snap he's played. He will be lucky to have a roster spot next season.

I thought he looked pretty good early on when he was playing for Boone.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Are yall kidding about Looney? He has looked awful in every meaningful snap he's played. He will be lucky to have a roster spot next season.

I thought he looked pretty good early on when he was playing for Boone.

It seems to me that you can't really know how these guys will adjust to a new system unless they have played in a similar system in college or another NFL team. So the fact that many came from zone schemes in college is meaningful. Boone looked terrible this year but might adjust very well to LT as NC suggests.

A couple of things I'd like the niners do:

• make all positons more equitable (emphasis on MORE), which zone blocking allows.
• cross train and use linemen in at least two positions during training camp so injuries will impact the offense less.
• evaluate the linemen quickly and make changes where necessary...early in camp.
• draft a couple of linemen that fit zone blocking in the middle rounds...guys who are smart and tenacious.