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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Nicely done, really well done NC. A couple comments:

OL ...sure lots of suspense here, most of us wondering who will actually show up. Will it be a run blocking OL , or a pass protecting OL...or will we fail in one, the other , or both? Last yr , sure , i would have been worried about our OL at this point in time. This yr , with hard head harbaw (HHH) gone, i feel comfortable that IF we have a weak spot on OL, or say even two....this yr I feel comfortable that any weakness in OL can be coached around. Naturally you want your OL to protect Kap, make holes for Hyde, but if we have a position that is weak, we can coach around it. LAST YR? No fricking way. (Example---OL couldn't keep kap protected, so obvious thing was to throw quick hitters where the big pass rush didn't matter because the ball was already gone. Did JH ever do that? Nah) The last thing to go thru HHH's brain would have been coaching around a weakness. This yr, I think like most true NFL HCs, our HC will be able to do so. The last thing i worry about this yr is JT being wedded to his way of thinking and ONLY his way. No way hardhead would ever try coaching around a weakness. That just shows a basic lack of interest in trying something new. Essentially HHH learned it from schembechler, and that is the way he thought and coached. Never considered other options...and frankly, i don't think he had the personality nor the smarts to do it.

OTOH, JT seems very disposed to trying all sorts of things (look at the way he is experimenting with OL at present), and I would bet the farm that he actively searches for input rather than everything being harbaws... my way or the hiway... The benefit here is that if we have a weakness, we coach around it while at the same time looking for someone who is better than a guy who can't cut it. Many times over the past 4 yrs, harbaw could have coached around a deficient piece...say Goodwin...but yet he never did. Other coaches do that all the time. Our problem was we got a guy with great creds who was as unimaginative as a pineapple.

New era in Dodge, has already begun. There is an esprit d' corps I don't recall except for briefly in harbaw's first yr here. That disappeared rapidly, however, when it became apparent that this guy wasn't a thinker....he was a one idea guy...and that idea was his and his alone. One of the positions you didn't chart , Command, was HC and all the other coaches JT has brought into the fold. Lots of experience as OCs , DCs, and on down the line. No, JT is not a marquee coach, nor was he atop the list of available HCs. We tried that route already with harbaw. And it, or rather he, failed. Who would have guessed that as good as he was around a microphone, he would be so poor as an innovator, and so locked into his own ways? No wonder the atmosphere is so positive around the clubhouse and on the field. I think the team sees JT as a guy they can work with, no histrionics, no going nutty on the sideline....no showing up at gametime with no gameplan, no playcalls, no half time changes, no delayed plays coming in. Nor, will they see red hankies hit the ground with chance for success about Zero.

Nope, i think the team has its blue collar guy, a guy they know and have worked with before.. LIked by all, or certainly respected by all. No showboating, just old fashioned hard work and coaching. Pressers? pizz on them. For all i care he can say 2 words and that is fine by me. But i am looking for JT to be that guy on the sideline that actually makes a difference....in a positive way. HHH on the sideline made a difference alright. And that difference was that we routinely got outcoached by the top tier teams. Ie, our HC wasn't nearly as smart as the opponents, and he lost us some big games. Unfortunately, 3 of those were during the end of post season play. 2 NFCC game and 1 SB. Outclassed, out thoght, out coached. That was our former coach. How on earth could we not do better wtih someone other than harbaw at the controls?

Good point about the coaching changes, the willingness to try new things, get input from all, player connections, etc. In fact, this is from MB yesterday covering some of this very stuff.

It also shows the differing philosophies between the 49ers' current and former coach. Jim Harbaugh viewed the 49ers' facility as a sanctuary. Harbaugh believed there is no finer place than a football facility, and he wanted his players there grinding as much as possible.

A good argument could be made that they ultimately were ground down by this concept. That's what Alex Boone said in his interview with HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" in April. Boone noted that Harbaugh's intensity jump-started the middling 49ers when the coach arrived in 2011. But Boone said it became tiresome in ensuing years. "I think he just pushed guys too far," he said.

It also starts to explain the huge number of injuries the 49ers suffered last year, as well as their unprecedented rash of retirements.

First-year coach Jim Tomsula, on the other hand, wants to give his players as much time off as possible so they are fresh and energized for the start of the season. Tomsula's theory is that if his guys start to miss football, like you, they'll be eager for its return. The 49ers see this as Tomsula's strength – his insight into his players' makeup and a sensitivity toward what they need and how they'll respond.

In his players' eyes, Tomsula's spring practices were a success. The sessions were fast-paced. There were no major injuries. And the 49ers concentrated on correcting every component – getting to the line of scrimmage quickly, for example – considered problematic under Harbaugh. Left tackle Joe Staley, who is suddenly the veteran voice of the franchise, called it one of the best offseasons he has experienced since joining the team in 2007.

"Everybody's very focused and excited," he said. "I think with a new coaching staff, (there is) new energy, new ideas, I think that has something to do with it as well."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article27925813.html#storylink=cpy


Originally posted by genus49:
My biggest concerns/questions are how the OL will shake out and the corners.

If i had to pick the biggest concern I'd say corners but if our pass rush can play up to its potential that should help out whomever gets the nod back there. It sounds to me like we're going with a more aggressive approach on defense which will leave the secondary in a lot of one on one situations and if the rush/blitz doesn't succeed they better make a damn play or we can be giving up some chunk yards.

Need guys to stay healthy and the sophomore kids to take a big step up.

I think the OL will be ok with the switch to ZBS and some fresh blood in there but until they prove it it's a concern.

Genus49...mine too. I know it's still way early but OL is clearly my biggest concern but it's LESS of a concern than last year even with Iupati and Davis (in/out of the lineup) and 100 interior changes. 52 sacks? The good news is that these are high-graded talent with a ton of upside and they have all slimmed down and have experience in the ZBS.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Why so scared? A quick glance at the REAL concerns centered around our current roster. When reviewing each position group, I'd like your concerns stated (outside the major-injury perspective; I highly doubt we end the year with 19 players on I.R. again). This is how I predict the final 53 will be (July review).
My sentiments exact! To the extent that I have a concern it's at ILB. I think Baalke is counting heavily on Bowman returning to pre-injury form. If his injury proves to linger that will be a hole in our D that I'm sure teams will exploit. Beyond that I honestly expect this team to be back in the playoffs at the very least.

Thanks for the input. It IS a valid concern. The good news is that he sounds so far ahead of schedule he wants to take off and burn his knee brace and the reports have been that without pads, he looks explosive again and doesn't seem to be holding back at all (diving INT's in the EZ, etc.). Thankfully, ILB is the easiest position to plug-n-play and have a lot of success...worst case scenario, if it ended up being Wilhoite and Wheeler, production-wise, it may not be THAT big of a drop off as we may think esp. with so much time to train/study just in case.
IMO, a 100% healthy Bowman with a healthy Wilhoite beside him is a top-10 ILB duo.
Originally posted by crake49:
IMO, a 100% healthy Bowman with a healthy Wilhoite beside him is a top-10 ILB duo.

Agree! They may not be the elite pair of the past few years but they will be good enough and with Mangini using different sets and groups I can see times where they play the hybrid SS/ILBs more, whether that's Tartt or Bethea or ?.

My main concern is with injuries and the OL coming together quickly...that's a lot to ask a first year coaching group replacing key players. But I think we will be pleasantly surprised.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by crake49:
IMO, a 100% healthy Bowman with a healthy Wilhoite beside him is a top-10 ILB duo.

Agree! They may not be the elite pair of the past few years but they will be good enough and with Mangini using different sets and groups I can see times where they play the hybrid SS/ILBs more, whether that's Tartt or Bethea or ?.

My main concern is with injuries and the OL coming together quickly...that's a lot to ask a first year coaching group replacing key players. But I think we will be pleasantly surprised.

Absolutely, but I have to think that the law of averages has to start favoring the Niners on this injury thing pretty soon. It would be amazing to see a relatively injury-free season for a change. The OL is a big ?, but even that may turn out a lot better than people think with this new ZBS. I may be wrong about this, but my sense is that teams employing ZBS's seem to protect the passer better. If anyone has some comparative numbers on this, that would be interesting.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by crake49:
IMO, a 100% healthy Bowman with a healthy Wilhoite beside him is a top-10 ILB duo.

Agree! They may not be the elite pair of the past few years but they will be good enough and with Mangini using different sets and groups I can see times where they play the hybrid SS/ILBs more, whether that's Tartt or Bethea or ?.

My main concern is with injuries and the OL coming together quickly...that's a lot to ask a first year coaching group replacing key players. But I think we will be pleasantly surprised.

Absolutely, but I have to think that the law of averages has to start favoring the Niners on this injury thing pretty soon. It would be amazing to see a relatively injury-free season for a change. The OL is a big ?, but even that may turn out a lot better than people think with this new ZBS. I may be wrong about this, but my sense is that teams employing ZBS's seem to protect the passer better. If anyone has some comparative numbers on this, that would be interesting.

Yeah, we've had SO many critical injuries at critical times, it disgusted me. Just gut-wrenching.

I didn't want to include injuries b/c it's only July but it is something to consider when reviewing our concerns (like OL) about the talent level/roster. It forces you to review the depth...so that's a good thing.

How do you guys feel about the depth?
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by crake49:
IMO, a 100% healthy Bowman with a healthy Wilhoite beside him is a top-10 ILB duo.

Agree! They may not be the elite pair of the past few years but they will be good enough and with Mangini using different sets and groups I can see times where they play the hybrid SS/ILBs more, whether that's Tartt or Bethea or ?.

My main concern is with injuries and the OL coming together quickly...that's a lot to ask a first year coaching group replacing key players. But I think we will be pleasantly surprised.

Absolutely, but I have to think that the law of averages has to start favoring the Niners on this injury thing pretty soon. It would be amazing to see a relatively injury-free season for a change. The OL is a big ?, but even that may turn out a lot better than people think with this new ZBS. I may be wrong about this, but my sense is that teams employing ZBS's seem to protect the passer better. If anyone has some comparative numbers on this, that would be interesting.

Yeah, we've had SO many critical injuries at critical times, it disgusted me. Just gut-wrenching.

I didn't want to include injuries b/c it's only July but it is something to consider when reviewing our concerns (like OL) about the talent level/roster. It forces you to review the depth...so that's a good thing.

How do you guys feel about the depth?

The law of averages caught up with the team last year as they had been pretty healthy years past. But they may have made up for all their good luck in one really horrid year! I hope!

Depth? The problem with having turn over is that you have questions of the starters...which makes it more problematic to judge the backups. But I see great depth overall and very few spots of major concern. If the young guys are all competitive on the OL it will be fine because they have been playing with nicked up guys over the past several years.

A Davis, Iupati, 4 centers, Staley...pretty much the whole line plays hurt regularly. Having younger guys coming in may turn that around. I love the emphasis on conditioning this off season because well conditioned players have fewer nagging injuries. In some cases it keeps nagging injuries from becoming more serious...Staley is an example. He's usually in great shape so his back hasn't kept him out of too many games. Davis drove me crazy because he seemed to be getting slower and heavier each year. Boone's hold out kept him from being in great shape until late season so that was another hit.

I really want to see 8 guys come to camp in shape, on time and with great attitudes. If they have to keep rookies and cut guys like Boone that's fine with me! Just allow the line to become a close knit group! My guess is that Kilgore, Martin and Staley are natural leaders and can make the line great. Boone is a chameleon who loves the one he's with...Harbaugh, Tomsula, Dracula...OK...that's hyperbole. The Joe Show is coming back so perhaps he is re-taking his leardership role back from Boone.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, we've had SO many critical injuries at critical times, it disgusted me. Just gut-wrenching.

I didn't want to include injuries b/c it's only July but it is something to consider when reviewing our concerns (like OL) about the talent level/roster. It forces you to review the depth...so that's a good thing.

How do you guys feel about the depth?

I see good depth at D-line, secondary, running back, receivers and OLB. I don't know about O-line and ILB.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, we've had SO many critical injuries at critical times, it disgusted me. Just gut-wrenching.

I didn't want to include injuries b/c it's only July but it is something to consider when reviewing our concerns (like OL) about the talent level/roster. It forces you to review the depth...so that's a good thing.

How do you guys feel about the depth?

I see good depth at D-line, secondary, running back, receivers and OLB. I don't know about O-line and ILB.

Sounds about right! Add backup QB to that as well. Although I think we're going to see a different Gabbert this pre season.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sounds about right! Add backup QB to that as well. Although I think we're going to see a different Gabbert this pre season.

I keep thinking Gabbert is going to be a good backup - I guess it's just that he looks like he should be good. He throws a great ball, has a real good arm, has prototype size, he's actually pretty quick as well. We'll see.

Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sounds about right! Add backup QB to that as well. Although I think we're going to see a different Gabbert this pre season.

I keep thinking Gabbert is going to be a good backup - I guess it's just that he looks like he should be good. He throws a great ball, has a real good arm, has prototype size, he's actually pretty quick as well. We'll see.

We shall see. IIRC he came in late and didn't seem to have the offense down. Then again all our QBs look ill prepared last off season. But now he and CK are comfortable and can just play. I bet Thompson looks solid too this preseason.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jul 21, 2015 at 3:36 PM ]
I was under the impression that gabbert was a harbaw reclamation project. He was like David Carr's brother who was a whiz bang in college , got drafted high, got shell shocked by no QB protection, and somehow lost it. You are correct, he throws a beautiful ball, but putting that to use on the field in a game just didn't pan out. Has something dramatically differernt occurred to give you all the sense that he will be a legit backup this yr. Because generally, somebody who gets the krapt beaten out of him for 2-3 yrs, doesn't have a good track record going forward....at least that has been my impression.
Good backup. Average starter on a good team. Jax sucked but on a decent offense I say he is average to above average.

We have 3 good lineman in Boone staley and Kilgore with Martin and Thomas question marks and pears a solid rt but bad guard.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I was under the impression that gabbert was a harbaw reclamation project. He was like David Carr's brother who was a whiz bang in college , got drafted high, got shell shocked by no QB protection, and somehow lost it. You are correct, he throws a beautiful ball, but putting that to use on the field in a game just didn't pan out. Has something dramatically differernt occurred to give you all the sense that he will be a legit backup this yr. Because generally, somebody who gets the krapt beaten out of him for 2-3 yrs, doesn't have a good track record going forward....at least that has been my impression.

LOL...amazing how a constant beating changes a QBs mechanics! I've pointed out numerous times how Plunkett went from Heismann hero to bust in NE...then Super Bowl winner with Oakland after a number of years of rehabilitation. Just brutal what happens to some guys. If Gabbert can sit another year and have some game time here and there he may reach his potential. He's an odd fit as CK's backup but that helps sometimes when a QB has to leave a game and a totally different type guy comes in to play.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I was under the impression that gabbert was a harbaw reclamation project. He was like David Carr's brother who was a whiz bang in college , got drafted high, got shell shocked by no QB protection, and somehow lost it. You are correct, he throws a beautiful ball, but putting that to use on the field in a game just didn't pan out. Has something dramatically differernt occurred to give you all the sense that he will be a legit backup this yr. Because generally, somebody who gets the krapt beaten out of him for 2-3 yrs, doesn't have a good track record going forward....at least that has been my impression.

LOL...amazing how a constant beating changes a QBs mechanics! I've pointed out numerous times how Plunkett went from Heismann hero to bust in NE...then Super Bowl winner with Oakland after a number of years of rehabilitation. Just brutal what happens to some guys. If Gabbert can sit another year and have some game time here and there he may reach his potential. He's an odd fit as CK's backup but that helps sometimes when a QB has to leave a game and a totally different type guy comes in to play.

Maybe, but I never liked Gabbert. Even in college he looked shaky to me. He's just plain bad throwing downfield and literally shrinks in the pocket at any sign of pressure. Those flaws were magnified in the pros when he wasn't in Mizzou's QB friendly offense piling on weak college defenses.

But we re-signed him, so the FO/Coaching staff must see something in him worth developing. He seems like a good/smart guy, and has the physical talent to be a really good backup if he improves. I just question his instincts for the position.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Jul 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM ]
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