The offense has never been fixed

Originally posted by cciowa:
if you think bad clock management is the fault of ck,, you have not been watching this team from the day jh arrived on our planet

Gotta agree, this is a coaching issue.

Originally posted by 49erjonny:
Let us remember.. Harbaugh was brought here to honestly fix an offense that wasnt holding up its end with a very good defense behind it. Hence harbaugh, now, ranking 11th at highest in his tenure in 2012 here with a top 5 defense year in year out, his other offensive rankings have been mid 20s at best, yes he managed to win. But who wouldn't knowing with a run blocking line, and defense that good, mistake free ball would always put you in a position to win.

Harbaugh hasn't held up his end, this offense has struggled, period. Stop our run, you beat the 49ers. Kaepernick was his guy, was always going to be, was thought to be the big play QB we needed to get over the hump.

Now, with an always below mediocre passing attack, how can one say that with Kaeps contract, being an easy cut ties for 9ers, but a injury guarantee money type deal, that kaep would not be protected from himself with the run element knowing that if he did not develop as Pocket passer, the last thing we would want is to pay a guy full salary for being injured exposing himseld running all the time?

He failed, period. Yeah, we've been successful, but he wasn't brought here to ride the defenses coat tail until it folded, we were supposed to see major offensive improvement, especially passing. Has never happened since he's been here, and now that the D has regressed slightly, and kaep can't just run around and improvise knowing with injury he's getting paid, harbaugh knows that kaep will not be what he once thought. Especially with expectations now. This is why hes leaving, not because he's being forced out, but because he knows he's tied to kaeps success or failure, which reflects upon him. He's leaving before his reputation is tarnished by his failure developing the big play QB he drafted. If he stayed and we failed again on offense, roman here or not, it's his future he has at stake regarding money and job offers, he's a product of a good situation, and now that the defense may not be carrying this team anymore, he's being exposed, so he's skipping town before it affects him, rather than the team... Fact.

It's so easy to see he rides good situations until they're no longer beneficial to him. Then takes off while still in the clear. His next job will fail, trust me. He won't have what he's fallen into. Writing is on the wall.

This is a long ass post of nothing. You act like we just 'happened' to go to 3 NFCCGs in a row?? That Harbaugh really doesn't have anything to do with it, that last night we literally had 3 defensive starters from the beginning of I season on the field. None of that matters?? GTFOH. This post was a waste of time.

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

Thank you. It's beyond ridiculous.

The reality is those posters really don't know s**t about sports, particularly football.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by trooper49:
Good, accurate assessment of the problem with the team. Though I don't believe Harbaugh is leaving because of Kaepernick. I still believe Kap can become a good quarterback. Maybe not great but better than average. I think Harbaugh still believes in Kaepernick also.

Kap is not even average. He's not even that good. Most of his best plays last night came running around. From the pocket he was garbage as usual.

yeah.......God forbid we create a game plan that utilizes his strengths......

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
The reality is those posters really don't know s**t about sports, particularly football.

Or they just aren't drinking the Kool Aid anymore. I appreciate what Harbaugh has done, he's done a great job coaching a highly talented roster, but perhaps this is his ceiling, a guy who is good enough, but not the one to get you there all the way. People fell in love with him because he's the first good coach they've had since Mariucci but its clear that there are a lot of unresolved issues that have continued on from 2011. Playclock issues, issues with guys lining up on offense, kicking FG's instead of scoring touchdowns, dumb penalties, if Harbaugh was an offensive coordinator, people would be screaming for him to get fired. This offense has averaged less PPG than in 2010 when you had Jimmy Raye and Mike Johnson running the show with significantly less offensive talent. You shouldn't have these issues when the head coach is "offensive minded" and has his own hand picked OC and QB.


Unless he's willing to make major changes on the offensive staff and hire a competent OC, I think Harbaugh has taken this team as far as he possibly can.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
The reality is those posters really don't know s**t about sports, particularly football.

Or they just aren't drinking the Kool Aid anymore. I appreciate what Harbaugh has done, he's done a great job coaching a highly talented roster, but perhaps this is his ceiling, a guy who is good enough, but not the one to get you there all the way. People fell in love with him because he's the first good coach they've had since Mariucci but its clear that there are a lot of unresolved issues that have continued on from 2011. Playclock issues, issues with guys lining up on offense, kicking FG's instead of scoring touchdowns, dumb penalties, if Harbaugh was an offensive coordinator, people would be screaming for him to get fired. This offense has averaged less PPG than in 2010 when you had Jimmy Raye and Mike Johnson running the show with significantly less offensive talent. You shouldn't have these issues when the head coach is "offensive minded" and has his own hand picked OC and QB.


Unless he's willing to make major changes on the offensive staff and hire a competent OC, I think Harbaugh has taken this team as far as he possibly can.

I'm confused. The beginning of the post you say he's reached his ceiling, at the end he he needs to hire a competent OC and staff. Which is it? Him or the OC and staff?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49erjonny: Let us remember.. Harbaugh was brought here to honestly fix an offense

Seems you'd prefer if we were averaging 6 wins a year with an exciting offense.

He wasn't brought here to fix the offense. He's not an offensive coordinator. He was brought in to win football games, take us back to the playoffs and maybe even if we are lucky the Super Bowl. And he did.

Good for him.

Emmm that's kinda wrong. It was indeed thought that Harbaugh being a former QB, having gotten very good results from the previous QB's he had coached, having went out of his way to learn from Bill Walsh, would improve the offense to pair with our already pretty good defense. He just made it less mistake prone, but other than the 1 year we have actually been ranked worse on offense.

So our offense is not a top tier offense. It hasn't been dominant like our defense has. We can't move the ball and score at will like the teams quarterbacked by Peyton or Brady or Rodgers. And so Harbaugh failed? Is that what you are saying?

Harbaugh played QB but he was never a Chip Kelly with radical new ideas about how the game is played. He's a gritty, hard nosed competitor who announced at Stanford a love for running an offense with the fullback and multiple tight ends. A throwback, smashmouth, control the clock type offense.

Recall that he completely turned around the career of Alex Smith. He also developed Kaepernick a raw project coming out of college into a pro QB who has had some success.

Seems like some fans expect him to take us deep in the playoffs every single year with an top 5 offense and defense. I'd say if you look at the whole of his career here he's done extremely well and did actual improve our offense from what it used to be. Do people forget how bad it was in 2007? Or 2010?

We can't move the ball and score like the top 2/3 to 3/4 of the teams in the NFL, much less the ones ran by the QB's you mentioned.

As for Alex Smith, Alex had shown signs of the switch prior to Harbaugh arriving. Kap has obviously not been coached hard imo. I don't see a QB who's been drilled night and day on the basics. I don't see a QB from 2012 till now that's improved greatly on his footwork, delivery, and the basics of playing the position from the pocket, yet he's renowned for being one of the hardest workers in the building "A++ effort".

I don't expect the 49ers to have a dominant D and a dominant O. I do expect, with the talent on this roster, a dominant D and a top 10-15 type offense. If I were management I would expect things like the record setting # of delay of game penalties and timeouts to avoid them to be resolved over 4 years. I would expect the same kind of development of offensive players as we get from the defensive staff and the defensive players. I would expect with all the gd coaches employed on that side of the ball that players should show more development, but they aren't. Not just Kap, everyone. Name one player who has improved on offense as time has gone by who wasn't already good before Harbaugh got here. Boone maybe? I would say he's kinda always been on the rise. Miller is about the same as he's been if not regressing a bit the last few. Not 1 wr has made much of an impact, no new TE's making impact, I don't see any of our linemen getting better per say, cept maybe Boone, and this year most have played worse. Kap's stats have regressed each year.

It's time for Harbaugh to go at this point. The staff he assembled, and I assume has been stubborn about firing, has failed this roster that Baalke has assembled, and management has every right to expect more. If given a championship roster management has a right to expect at least competitive results.

Will management make the right choice on his replacement? We will see. Some of the names floating around scare the hell out of me. I personally have a very short list of guys who may be an upgrade to Harbaugh and have very little faith in several of the names I hear floating around.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by trooper49:
Good, accurate assessment of the problem with the team. Though I don't believe Harbaugh is leaving because of Kaepernick. I still believe Kap can become a good quarterback. Maybe not great but better than average. I think Harbaugh still believes in Kaepernick also.

Kap is not even average. He's not even that good. Most of his best plays last night came running around. From the pocket he was garbage as usual.

He was 8 of 9 at one point in the game when the play calling resembled calls intended to flow from one to another. Then the calling got stuttery, and Roman receded back to his game of trying to outsmart (Lets run a QB sweep to the sideline, they will neeeeeever think we'd try that, trying to run out the clock and all) the opponent instead of calling a play he was confident in because he knew his offense would execute it perfectly.

Why is it that Kap can execute the game play at some times, but not others? He has shown the capability to put up big numbers in the passing game, but then looks pedestrian at other times.

I have been on the zone a long time and know your bulldog/stubborn mentality toward the negative so I know I am not changing your opinion, but it just doesn't make sense in my mind that a QB can perform sometimes, but is "complete garbage" in the end. If Kap can put up big passing #'s in any game then he has that potential in every game and is possibly salvageable, is my thinking.

hey, its my 2 vernon davis buddies....long time no speak.

I agree with you about Kaep (and SanDiego49er FWIW) The thing about Kaep is he is a QB that seems to need a running game and also needs to run himself to be effective. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. We just need to keep him doing what he does best and quit letting him settle or trying to force him to settle on being a tradional QB. Cause he's not a traditional QB. Atleast not yet (if ever).

He's proven he can be a suberbowl winning QB. At the end of the day, that's all you really want. A guy who can win you one. As good as Brees, Manning, Rodgers are. They only have 1 ring. It's not as easy as people make it sound. All you need is a guy capable of it. And he's that guy. Untraditional as it may be, he's still good enough to win one.

The year we lost the SB. Look at how many points our defense gave up in the playoffs. They weren't the reason we got to the SB or even had a chance to win it. We had to put points up in EVERY one of those games.

Long time Kriz.

I pretty much agree with you on Kap.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
I'm confused. The beginning of the post you say he's reached his ceiling, at the end he he needs to hire a competent OC and staff. Which is it? Him or the OC and staff?

I think his stubbornness in regards to his staff is his ceiling. From all reports, the tension between Harbaugh and the front office is centered primarily on the offense. If Harbaugh is refusing to change out some offensive staff and make some basic changes that are sorely needed, then that is his ceiling.

Just like the Bucs needed Gruden to win a Superbowl in spite of Dungy being an excellent coach, perhaps the 49ers need someone whose mindset and offensive philosophy isn't rooted in 1980's Michigan.

A lot about football has to do with match ups and in-game adjustments. We have failed to make second half offensive adjustments all season long even when the defense has adjusted. We continue to run power when the defense has adjusted so it is three and outs in the second half. And the offensive coaches and Kap seem misjudge their one on one match ups, especially against Richard Sherman. We have lost that one every time.

Once the defense stops the run, Kap is not efficient and consistent enough to sustain drives down the field with his passing. Somewhere along the way, the defense knows they will get a negative yard run, a sack or a timeout. Then it is third and long, and because the 49ers offense doesn't fool anyone, the defense takes Kap's first read away, and Kap bails.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Do you see a QB as good as Montana on this team?

Come on man, you don't see a qb as good as Montana on any team

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

Echras

Originally posted by Califm5:
Remember when Harbaugh was first hired and his press conference with York/Balke? The promises of a revival of the WCO and how excited he was to have access to Bill Walsh's "vault"? I don't know where that fantasy ended up but it sure sounded good at the time.

Yes sir - I do remember that and it made me feel like we were going to be winners.

VERY let down in that and many other respects.

Originally posted by Califm5:
Remember when Harbaugh was first hired and his press conference with York/Balke? The promises of a revival of the WCO and how excited he was to have access to Bill Walsh's "vault"? I don't know where that fantasy ended up but it sure sounded good at the time.

Yes sir - I do remember that and it made me feel like we were going to be winners.

VERY let down in that and many other respects.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

HAD him

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
Actually, I've watched every single game since HB arrived, and do not recall this problem when Smith was our QB, so yeah, I'm putting this issue mostly on Kap.

"ESPN's Mike Sando tweeted an interesting statistic earlier today, pointing out that Alex Smith is tied with Tim Tebow for most delay of game penalties since the start of the 2011 season."

LOL, then you must have been watching with your eyes closed. The playclock has been an issue since basically Day 1. This team has been a league leader in delay of game penalties for awhile. They consistently blew timeouts even when Alex was the QB because the playclock was running out, this has been going on for four seasons now and hasn't really shown any signs of improvement. I put the blame on this offensive scheme. A. Taking too much time to get the playcall to the QB and B. all the endless motioning and shifting that doesn't really do a whole lot anymore.

Over the last season and a half, one of the concerns I think most of us have is the 49ers use of timeouts. It seems like more often than not, the 49ers have burned all three first half timeouts with most of the second quarter still to be played. Against the Arizona Cardinals they did save a timeout for the final two minutes, but they had to use a pair of their timeouts because time was running down before they could run their plays.

Unfortunately we have no way to know whether this is slow play-calling from upstairs, or delays on the part of Alex Smith. The offensive coordinator calls in two plays to the quarterback, giving Alex Smith the option to run the play given, or "kill, kill kill" it and make a change. Is it possible that is slowing things down? I don't know the specific names of plays, so I don't know if play-call length is an issue.

One QB, okay...2 QB's.....nah, its the system. I can't think of another NFL team that has as much difficulty with guys lining up in the wrong places, with the QB having to spend so much time and effort to check and double check that everyone is where they need to be, burning up the playclock in the process.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/11/3/3596042/49ers-penalties-2012-timeouts-delay-of-game-alex-smith-jim-harbaugh

I officially am waiving the white flag and stand corrected......thought this was just a Kap issue but clearly it wasn't.

I salute you!

Not many have your class.