The offense has never been fixed

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
What I just don't understand about Kap is how he can "still" be so clueless on clock management. How many times does he not get the play off before we get a delay of game penalty, and how many times does he just beat the clock. I get that a rookie in his first year might do this, but Kap has always had this issue, and he is not getting any better at it. I have been a Kap supporter all along, but am beginning to think he may not be capable of getting us to #6. Next year will be a make or break year for Kap imo.

I hope Coach stays, but everything seems to be pointing to him leaving.

if you think bad clock management is the fault of ck,, you have not been watching this team from the day jh arrived on our planet

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

Thank you. It's beyond ridiculous.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
What I just don't understand about Kap is how he can "still" be so clueless on clock management. How many times does he not get the play off before we get a delay of game penalty, and how many times does he just beat the clock. I get that a rookie in his first year might do this, but Kap has always had this issue, and he is not getting any better at it. I have been a Kap supporter all along, but am beginning to think he may not be capable of getting us to #6. Next year will be a make or break year for Kap imo.

I hope Coach stays, but everything seems to be pointing to him leaving.

if you think bad clock management is the fault of ck,, you have not been watching this team from the day jh arrived on our planet

Actually, I've watched every single game since HB arrived, and do not recall this problem when Smith was our QB, so yeah, I'm putting this issue mostly on Kap.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49erjonny: Let us remember.. Harbaugh was brought here to honestly fix an offense

Seems you'd prefer if we were averaging 6 wins a year with an exciting offense.

He wasn't brought here to fix the offense. He's not an offensive coordinator. He was brought in to win football games, take us back to the playoffs and maybe even if we are lucky the Super Bowl. And he did.

Good for him.

Emmm that's kinda wrong. It was indeed thought that Harbaugh being a former QB, having gotten very good results from the previous QB's he had coached, having went out of his way to learn from Bill Walsh, would improve the offense to pair with our already pretty good defense. He just made it less mistake prone, but other than the 1 year we have actually been ranked worse on offense.

wins > rank on offense

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
Actually, I've watched every single game since HB arrived, and do not recall this problem when Smith was our QB, so yeah, I'm putting this issue mostly on Kap.

"ESPN's Mike Sando tweeted an interesting statistic earlier today, pointing out that Alex Smith is tied with Tim Tebow for most delay of game penalties since the start of the 2011 season."

LOL, then you must have been watching with your eyes closed. The playclock has been an issue since basically Day 1. This team has been a league leader in delay of game penalties for awhile. They consistently blew timeouts even when Alex was the QB because the playclock was running out, this has been going on for four seasons now and hasn't really shown any signs of improvement. I put the blame on this offensive scheme. A. Taking too much time to get the playcall to the QB and B. all the endless motioning and shifting that doesn't really do a whole lot anymore.

Over the last season and a half, one of the concerns I think most of us have is the 49ers use of timeouts. It seems like more often than not, the 49ers have burned all three first half timeouts with most of the second quarter still to be played. Against the Arizona Cardinals they did save a timeout for the final two minutes, but they had to use a pair of their timeouts because time was running down before they could run their plays.

Unfortunately we have no way to know whether this is slow play-calling from upstairs, or delays on the part of Alex Smith. The offensive coordinator calls in two plays to the quarterback, giving Alex Smith the option to run the play given, or "kill, kill kill" it and make a change. Is it possible that is slowing things down? I don't know the specific names of plays, so I don't know if play-call length is an issue.

One QB, okay...2 QB's.....nah, its the system. I can't think of another NFL team that has as much difficulty with guys lining up in the wrong places, with the QB having to spend so much time and effort to check and double check that everyone is where they need to be, burning up the playclock in the process.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/11/3/3596042/49ers-penalties-2012-timeouts-delay-of-game-alex-smith-jim-harbaugh

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by trooper49:
Good, accurate assessment of the problem with the team. Though I don't believe Harbaugh is leaving because of Kaepernick. I still believe Kap can become a good quarterback. Maybe not great but better than average. I think Harbaugh still believes in Kaepernick also.

Kap is not even average. He's not even that good. Most of his best plays last night came running around. From the pocket he was garbage as usual.

He was 8 of 9 at one point in the game when the play calling resembled calls intended to flow from one to another. Then the calling got stuttery, and Roman receded back to his game of trying to outsmart (Lets run a QB sweep to the sideline, they will neeeeeever think we'd try that, trying to run out the clock and all) the opponent instead of calling a play he was confident in because he knew his offense would execute it perfectly.

Why is it that Kap can execute the game play at some times, but not others? He has shown the capability to put up big numbers in the passing game, but then looks pedestrian at other times.

I have been on the zone a long time and know your bulldog/stubborn mentality toward the negative so I know I am not changing your opinion, but it just doesn't make sense in my mind that a QB can perform sometimes, but is "complete garbage" in the end. If Kap can put up big passing #'s in any game then he has that potential in every game and is possibly salvageable, is my thinking.

hey, its my 2 vernon davis buddies....long time no speak.

I agree with you about Kaep (and SanDiego49er FWIW) The thing about Kaep is he is a QB that seems to need a running game and also needs to run himself to be effective. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. We just need to keep him doing what he does best and quit letting him settle or trying to force him to settle on being a tradional QB. Cause he's not a traditional QB. Atleast not yet (if ever).

He's proven he can be a suberbowl winning QB. At the end of the day, that's all you really want. A guy who can win you one. As good as Brees, Manning, Rodgers are. They only have 1 ring. It's not as easy as people make it sound. All you need is a guy capable of it. And he's that guy. Untraditional as it may be, he's still good enough to win one.

The year we lost the SB. Look at how many points our defense gave up in the playoffs. They weren't the reason we got to the SB or even had a chance to win it. We had to put points up in EVERY one of those games.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

This

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

What I just don't understand about Kap is how he can "still" be so clueless on clock management. How many times does he not get the play off before we get a delay of game penalty, and how many times does he just beat the clock. I get that a rookie in his first year might do this, but Kap has always had this issue, and he is not getting any better at it. I have been a Kap supporter all along, but am beginning to think he may not be capable of getting us to #6. Next year will be a make or break year for Kap imo.

I hope Coach stays, but everything seems to be pointing to him leaving.

if you think bad clock management is the fault of ck,, you have not been watching this team from the day jh arrived on our planet

Actually, I've watched every single game since HB arrived, and do not recall this problem when Smith was our QB, so yeah, I'm putting this issue mostly on Kap.

It was every bit the problem with Smith as is it with Kaepernick. I swear the constant tendency to blame the QB makes Niner fans look incompetent. Every year since Steve Young went down, it has been the same.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
Actually, I've watched every single game since HB arrived, and do not recall this problem when Smith was our QB, so yeah, I'm putting this issue mostly on Kap.

"ESPN's Mike Sando tweeted an interesting statistic earlier today, pointing out that Alex Smith is tied with Tim Tebow for most delay of game penalties since the start of the 2011 season."

LOL, then you must have been watching with your eyes closed. The playclock has been an issue since basically Day 1. This team has been a league leader in delay of game penalties for awhile. They consistently blew timeouts even when Alex was the QB because the playclock was running out, this has been going on for four seasons now and hasn't really shown any signs of improvement. I put the blame on this offensive scheme. A. Taking too much time to get the playcall to the QB and B. all the endless motioning and shifting that doesn't really do a whole lot anymore.

Over the last season and a half, one of the concerns I think most of us have is the 49ers use of timeouts. It seems like more often than not, the 49ers have burned all three first half timeouts with most of the second quarter still to be played. Against the Arizona Cardinals they did save a timeout for the final two minutes, but they had to use a pair of their timeouts because time was running down before they could run their plays.

Unfortunately we have no way to know whether this is slow play-calling from upstairs, or delays on the part of Alex Smith. The offensive coordinator calls in two plays to the quarterback, giving Alex Smith the option to run the play given, or "kill, kill kill" it and make a change. Is it possible that is slowing things down? I don't know the specific names of plays, so I don't know if play-call length is an issue.

One QB, okay...2 QB's.....nah, its the system. I can't think of another NFL team that has as much difficulty with guys lining up in the wrong places, with the QB having to spend so much time and effort to check and double check that everyone is where they need to be, burning up the playclock in the process.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/11/3/3596042/49ers-penalties-2012-timeouts-delay-of-game-alex-smith-jim-harbaugh

I officially am waiving the white flag and stand corrected......thought this was just a Kap issue but clearly it wasn't.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

So sick of thIs. Harbaugh has one bad season, decimated by injuries, and you are ready to trash him. We were lucky to have him.

I guess this would be a legit response if you just don't understand what your seeing on the field.
Harbaughs offensive failures have been on display since his arrival. People like to blame willimas for our loss to the Giants. Not not being able to complete a single pass to ANY receiver. Or their inability to convert more than 1 friggin 3rd down. Anyone who witnessed that game saw a defense perform at levels we may never see again. That and a special teams unit that was unbelievable, minus 2 bad mistakes by one guy. Conclusion? Special teams and defense were responsible for that first year. Definetely not harbaughs offense.
Couple harbaughs massive shortcomings on offense with his inability to develop his hand picked QB and toss in his tendency to being a massive A-hole and you have the perfect receipe for being shown the door. Jed has NO CHOICE.

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:
I officially am waiving the white flag and stand corrected......thought this was just a Kap issue but clearly it wasn't.

Its not the quarterback, pretty much any QB short of a guy like Manning or Brady, a veteran with lengthy experience would have issues with the playclock, I've seen the plays frequently come in late and then they do all this goofy shifting that isn't fooling anyone anymore and in fact seems to tip defenses off to what the playcall is.

I sometimes wonder if the reason why Manning didn't come here is because he knew this offense was nonsense.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by trooper49:

Good, accurate assessment of the problem with the team. Though I don't believe Harbaugh is leaving because of Kaepernick. I still believe Kap can become a good quarterback. Maybe not great but better than average. I think Harbaugh still believes in Kaepernick also.

Kap is not even average. He's not even that good. Most of his best plays last night came running around. From the pocket he was garbage as usual.

He was 8 of 9 at one point in the game when the play calling resembled calls intended to flow from one to another. Then the calling got stuttery, and Roman receded back to his game of trying to outsmart (Lets run a QB sweep to the sideline, they will neeeeeever think we'd try that, trying to run out the clock and all) the opponent instead of calling a play he was confident in because he knew his offense would execute it perfectly.

Why is it that Kap can execute the game play at some times, but not others? He has shown the capability to put up big numbers in the passing game, but then looks pedestrian at other times.

I have been on the zone a long time and know your bulldog/stubborn mentality toward the negative so I know I am not changing your opinion, but it just doesn't make sense in my mind that a QB can perform sometimes, but is "complete garbage" in the end. If Kap can put up big passing #'s in any game then he has that potential in every game and is possibly salvageable, is my thinking.

hey, its my 2 vernon davis buddies....long time no speak.

I agree with you about Kaep (and SanDiego49er FWIW) The thing about Kaep is he is a QB that seems to need a running game and also needs to run himself to be effective. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. We just need to keep him doing what he does best and quit letting him settle or trying to force him to settle on being a tradional QB. Cause he's not a traditional QB. Atleast not yet (if ever).

He's proven he can be a suberbowl winning QB. At the end of the day, that's all you really want. A guy who can win you one. As good as Brees, Manning, Rodgers are. They only have 1 ring. It's not as easy as people make it sound. All you need is a guy capable of it. And he's that guy. Untraditional as it may be, he's still good enough to win one.

The year we lost the SB. Look at how many points our defense gave up in the playoffs. They weren't the reason we got to the SB or even had a chance to win it. We had to put points up in EVERY one of those games.

Hit the nail on the head. The way Kap played last night, we should have won that game.

He was the culprit of one of the fumbles, and should get blame for that, but the offense out up 28 points at home. That SHOULD be a win.

Unfortunately, the 2014 injury bug caught up with us AGAIN. Just when we needed the defense most we have no Aldon Smith, no Aaron Lynch, and with Ahmad Brooks being out, there is the game.

Honestly, with this many injuries on the defense, we are lucky to have seven wins.

Back to the offense. The gameplan to start the game was very much like the one against seattle, and it was working. The problem, once again, is that San Diego adjusted at halftime and we went back to the old run, run, shotgun offense. It doesn't work, and the fact that we keep going back to it, when the PA was working from the pro-set, is laughable.

Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Hit the nail on the head. The way Kap played last night, we should have won that game.

He was the culprit of one of the fumbles, and should get blame for that, but the offense out up 28 points at home. That SHOULD be a win.

Unfortunately, the 2014 injury bug caught up with us AGAIN. Just when we needed the defense most we have no Aldon Smith, no Aaron Lynch, and with Ahmad Brooks being out, there is the game.

Honestly, with this many injuries on the defense, we are lucky to have seven wins.

Back to the offense. The gameplan to start the game was very much like the one against seattle, and it was working. The problem, once again, is that San Diego adjusted at halftime and we went back to the old run, run, shotgun offense. It doesn't work, and the fact that we keep going back to it, when the PA was working from the pro-set, is laughable.

I would like to add here as well that San Diego adjusted just like Seattle adjusted after half-time.

It was clear 3 power runs into the second half that we needed to change our tactics on offense. Why we wouldn't/couldn't do so I have no idea.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ottawa49er:

I officially am waiving the white flag and stand corrected......thought this was just a Kap issue but clearly it wasn't.

Its not the quarterback, pretty much any QB short of a guy like Manning or Brady, a veteran with lengthy experience would have issues with the playclock, I've seen the plays frequently come in late and then they do all this goofy shifting that isn't fooling anyone anymore and in fact seems to tip defenses off to what the playcall is.

I sometimes wonder if the reason why Manning didn't come here is because he knew this offense was nonsense.

What's funny is that the last two weeks, the offense has gotten to the line with plenty of time to spare, but only in the first half. Once halftime started, they reverted back to the one-second-snap offense and then it was run, run, shotgun pass, punt.

This coaching staff just cannot adjust at halftime. They try, but it almost always plays to our weakness.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I often wonder if a big part of the offense's issues is the elimination of sight adjustments in Harbaugh's offense. There was a Grantland article a while back about how eliminating sight adjustments helped Alex Smith become a safer, more efficient quarterback. Essentially the QB must read the defense correctly and identify where he must go with the ball pre-snap. Apparently it made quarterbacking a bit easier for Smith, but I think defenses have adjusted to this and find it easier to identify the plays the Niners are running.

I think Kap can become a really good quarterback, but I also think he's somewhat hamstrung in this offense. The concepts are there as have been proven by THL and johnny, but it just seems like Harbaugh's offense has always been a slow, plodding affair. Even now when he has had arguably the most explosive offense of his tenure, we're still seeing the same conservative offense. Part of it has been Kap's regression this year, as well as line issues. However, at this point in the season I think we can safely say a large part of it has to do with Harbaugh and Roman.

Kap was a neat new tool stuck into the same old "Alex Smith" offense. Defenses didn't know how to handle him at first, but have learned that this offense really hasn't changed much with Kap under center. Kap is more apt to take a deep shot than Smith was, but what this offense really wants to to is consistently run 8-10 minute scoring drives. That's great when you can do it, but sometimes deep shots and explosive plays are needed to open up those "grind it out" drives. For anecdotal evidence, just watch the recent Seattle game. Despite being down by 2 scores with 8 minutes left to go, the Niners were still plodding down the field taking all the time off the clock they could...

Our wide receivers are the one's "plodding". We have the most TALENTED WR corps we've ever had, but not the most explosive. Crabtree, Boldin, SJ, are pretty much all the same guy. Possession receivers with no speed. Hence your plodding. This offense hasn't been as conservative in years passed. We've had more 5 WR sets than ever before. Lloyd can get deep with great route running, VD? We've all forgotten about VD...Who CAN take the top off. But hasn't. But there is no question that situational game awareness has not been there.