My thoughts on this season and the offense

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree with EVERYTHING you wrote!

and yes at the core it's the scheme, like you said defenses know what play SF will run and it's been talked about by players for a couple seasons.

How do you go from the 11th ranked offense the SB year to this??? They have been trying to make Kap something that he isn't, which is a statue pocket passer that picks apart the secondary.

Look at Seattle they call plays to the strengths of Wilson and make him a duel threat. Kap isn't a threat to run based on Roman's play calls anymore. Like you said stop trying to put a square peg into a hole...make plays to his strengths like they did in 2011!!

Fire Roman and move the Oline around like Jim's brother did...the season isn't lost completely

I really don't agree with "stop trying to put a square peg into a hole.." argument. Every dual threat QB, Young, McNabb, McNair, Cunnigham, Garcia, etc has had to make the transition to being able to throw out of the pocket to achieve long term success. That is what Harbaugh is trying to do with Kap. My beef with the coaching staff is to make that transition easier mix in the bootlegs and roll Kap out of the pocket every now and then instead of dropping straight back everytime you throw the ball. Mix in slants, dig routes, and flares more often. Put some variety into this offense. Go deep into the playbook and open up the offense more.But it's Roman making that call so probably won't happen and we probably will be looking for a new coach in the off season.

I'm sorry but it's not all scheme. Most you are severely over rating the personnel on offense. Seattle players are saying it with regularity. The 49ers offense is slow. No explosive players. Scheme isn't going to fix that against an all world defense like Seattle's. We've had the same offensive problems for more years than Harbaugh has been here. Baalke deserves more blame too. He's partially responsible. Defenses have been playing the 49ers with 8-10 guys in the box for a decade now. One common problem has persisted the entire time. No freaking speed. Vernon was our only explosive player and now that he's declining were right back to square one. Not one player on this offense is scaring anyone. Gore included.

Very much a matter of pieces not fitting. When Harbaugh took over it seemed his power running game would do well with the power line Singletary left behind...except that Staley wasn't really a power OT, just the best all around OLman. They ran well in the early years but can't run consistenly now. Why?

Defenses do not respect the 9ers passing game and feel they can shut it down enough to win the game. Baltimore showed the league how to defense his brothers offense in in 2011 and then again in the Super Bowl. Eight or Nine guys in the box until the snap and then some fly short to take away passing lanes, while others blitz. Various machinations of this have been used since with increasing success. Kaepernick makes it easier because he has less experience reading defenses. Kaepernick also was at a disadvantage because he had to develop touch to try and fit the ball into routes over DBs...instead of through them.

If you can't punish a team for stacking the box then you are sunk. This team's talent was strong enough to overcome this by running even against a stacked box for a while but teams are much better at shutting SF down now due to OL injuries and changes.

The only hope I see for the remainder of the year is to get VD and Ellington healthy and try to make the D's play honest. I would also do one of two things with the OLIne--1) spread it out and let Kaepernick go back to his old self, or 2) close up the line and form a tighter pocket with two second routes. But only one of these! This team can't take any more confusion.

Originally posted by E-49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree with EVERYTHING you wrote!

and yes at the core it's the scheme, like you said defenses know what play SF will run and it's been talked about by players for a couple seasons.

How do you go from the 11th ranked offense the SB year to this??? They have been trying to make Kap something that he isn't, which is a statue pocket passer that picks apart the secondary.

Look at Seattle they call plays to the strengths of Wilson and make him a duel threat. Kap isn't a threat to run based on Roman's play calls anymore. Like you said stop trying to put a square peg into a hole...make plays to his strengths like they did in 2011!!

Fire Roman and move the Oline around like Jim's brother did...the season isn't lost completely

I really don't agree with "stop trying to put a square peg into a hole.." argument. Every dual threat QB, Young, McNabb, McNair, Cunnigham, Garcia, etc has had to make the transition to being able to throw out of the pocket to achieve long term success. That is what Harbaugh is trying to do with Kap. My beef with the coaching staff is to make that transition easier mix in the bootlegs and roll Kap out of the pocket every now and then instead of dropping straight back everytime you throw the ball. Mix in slants, dig routes, and flares more often. Put some variety into this offense. Go deep into the playbook and open up the offense more.But it's Roman making that call so probably won't happen and we probably will be looking for a new coach in the off season.

I agree that their has to be some transition, but just look at Seattle and their play calls. Pete knew SF's pass rush was great so instead of letting Wilson get smashed in the pocket and call 5 & 7 step drop backs they made plays that got Wilson moving around. They had a extra TE or RB clip block then Wilson had OPTIONS to either run or dump of the pass for RAC.

Kap isn't a pocket passing QB and neither is Wilson at this stage of the game, How many QB's have been drafted in the NFL the past 5 years that have actually turned out to be good pocket passing QBs? They don't grow on trees, so why not call plays to your players strengths and win some games while adding some pocket plays into the play book? They were ranked 11th in total offense when using Kap as a duel threat in 2012 with less talent around him...it's not rocket science and Roman has shown his cards before the games even start. Kap didn't even have a chance against Seattle based on scheme alone.

That was intelligent rant, I salute you sir! Good post...I would not have pulled that off.

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
SF had the #1 ranked offense in efficiency for 2012.

defenses weren't ready for the r/o

they are now

That's funny, when was the last time we really played the R/O for a significant amount of time during a game? Last time i can remember was when we buried the Packers. Since then we've rarely used it. So how do we know whether or not the NFL has caught up to it?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
If you'll indulge my little bit of post whoring here, after last night there's a whole bunch of stuff that I've been thinking over regarding this team and the sorry state of the offense, please excuse my long rant here.




-Running the playclock down. I get it, you run the play clock down, the defense reveals their intentions, shows off their coverage yet at the same time it allows the defense to get a jump on the line as they can better time when the ball is going to be snapped.


Kaepernick hasn't shown the sort of recognition to understand exactly what the defense is doing and where to go with the ball, even when they do reveal their coverage and in some cases it seems teams are picking up on his proclivities and are baiting him into throwing passes where a second defensive back suddenly steps up into the area. I think Kaepernick puts way too much emphasis on pre-snap reads.

If you run the clock down with a guy like Brady or Manning, seasoned veterans that can pick defenses apart in their sleep, then its an advantage to the offense, but with Kaepernick, I don't see him ever getting to their level of reading a defense but even so, the guy can still win you games but with him at quarterback, there is no real advantage to running the clock all the way down, especially considering the state of the OL, they need all the help that they can get.



QB Approach- Even though it really doesn't reflect in the stats, Kaepernick did look a lot better when he was rolling out in the second half. What boggled my mind is that they seemingly refuse to utilize his mobility and they are trying to force him to turn into something he's not. He's not a classic dropback passer, if you wanted a dropback passer, you should have taken someone else in the draft. Kaepernick's strength is his mobility, his athleticism, he looks far more confident when he's on the run. They seemingly are trying to force a square peg into a round hole and it just isn't working.


Execution- Execution issues continue, I've been watching the same sorts of problems crop up for the better part of four seasons now. All the shifting and other assorted BS doesn't help, defenses aren't buying in, they aren't fooled anymore. Back in 2011 the offense surprised a lot of people with the motioning, moving guys around all over the place, teams didn't know what to expect. Nowadays it just looks tired, every quality defense almost seems to have a guy up in the booth with Roman as he's making the playcalls, relaying them back to the defense. Sherman couldn't stop bragging that they knew exactly what was coming. In 2012, the Rams couldn't stop bragging that they knew exactly what was coming. Dahl came over here and confirmed that they knew exactly what was coming. Minnesota's defensive players couldn't stop bragging that they knew exactly what was coming. Execution becomes a b***h when the defense is all over your playcalls the vast majority of the time. Defenses in the NFL are way too good for them to be given any additional advantages and I think regardless of all the cute, gimmicky stuff they try at times, teams are well aware of exactly what this offense is trying to do and how to shut them down.


The most disheartening thing is seeing guys looking so listless out there. Regularly you'll see receivers basically walk their routes down the field, making it entirely clear that they know even before the ball is snapped that the pass isn't coming their way. Just by looking at the body language of the guys on offense, they aren't buying into this scheme anymore, they don't believe in it, nobody really seems fired up and the leadership void, especially in the two minute offense, is highly visible. That falls on Kaepernick, as the QB he should be the guy to make sure everyone has got it together, that they are aware of the situation and what needs to be done but I think as a quarterback he's gotten to the point where he's trying to be too buddy buddy with guys instead of letting them know that they are f**king up. I don't think its his style to be very vocal and get into guys faces but that is what the position demands. Everyone needs to be held accountable, including Kaepernick himself.




Kaepernick. Some games he looks like he's progressing, some games he looks like he's regressing badly. I don't know if its a feature of the offense or just a major shortcoming on his part but he's looking for the homerun ball way too often, trying to force passes into coverage when nothing is really there. He doesn't look confident at all and I think part of that is the coaches trying to get him to be a dropback passer but that's just not who he is. We've seen him play very well at times but he's still too inconsistent. However I still think that if you put him in an offense that is more aligned with his strengths, I could see him doing substantially better. I think in an offense like Philadelphia's he could do some real damage. When the 49ers ran the no huddle versus Arizona earlier this season, he looked the best I've seen since that Chicago Bears game. He was decisive, making quick throws, short passes to receivers, steadily moving the ball down the field.....and then they never did that again. Its tough to gauge how much is on him and how much is the scheme but I think the blame goes both ways. Kaepernick made some very poor ill-advised throws yesterday. Some times the defender makes an outstanding play and you can't do anything about it, sometimes the wide receiver screws up a route, Kaepernick simply was floating passes right to Sherman, inexplicably. Those are the sorts of plays that he has to be smarter about. He's always going to be the gunslinger type which is always going to result in some interceptions but I don't see what good can come of trying to challenge Sherman on the outside repeatedly. I have hope that he can come back from this but I just don't ever see him or really any QB having sustained success in this herky jerky sort of offense.





The offensive scheme- The scheme emphasizes the vertical passing offense but this team doesn't really have any downfield threats. 34 year old Brandon Lloyd is pretty much the best deep threat on this team and that really isn't saying a lot. Most of the receivers are possession guys who would have a better fit in a more traditional WCO. Guys aren't regularly getting open downfield. I saw Lloyd get wide open on one play and Boldin on another but the focus on downfield passing, and I don't know if that is a result of Harbaugh and Roman's design or if Kaepernick simply wants to chuck it deep has really led to a majority of this team's struggles IMO. VD was the deep threat, but VD isn't looking like himself right now and with teams not having to focus as much on him, it really makes this offense a lot less threatening. It seems like offensively, they want to have a passing offense similar to what Arizona has, the difference is that Arizona has actual vertical threats like John Brown and a playcaller with decades of experience in just that sort of offense.



This offense has been getting more talented......but yet the results have been getting worse. That is simply inexcusable. The playcalling leaves a lot to be desired, people can talk about execution and the quarterback....etc, but a lot of these same issues have consistently been there for the better part of four seasons now. The offense doesn't even have injury issues like the defense does to sort of explain away their troubles. Guys have been dinged up on offense but on the defensive side, you've got All-Pro's that have missed nearly the entire season. There's no excuses.


There are no excuses for this team being so awful on first down. Opposing defenses aren't really doing anything special. They line up in the box to stop the run and then blitz like crazy on third down. Rinse and repeat, game in and game out and yet this team still hasn't adapted to that. Even yesterday I'm seeing Seattle bringing blitzes on third down and there doesn't seem to be any sort of adjustment on the part of the offense. You can blame Kaepernick for only so long, at some point you'd think that the coaching staff would step in and say "Hey look, when they blitz us like crazy, we need to get the ball out quick, there needs to be a hot route to beat the blitz" and yet nothing has seemingly changed.


All the motioning, the shifting, but this is a pretty vanilla offense, either run the ball pretty much straight ahead or play chuck and duck with a bunch of possession receivers that don't get much separation. It seems like they make things way too complex for the type of results they are getting. Seattle pretty much ran the same few plays on offense over and over again and they won because they executed. They weren't fooling anyone, did anyone doubt that they were going to be rolling out Russell Wilson all game, and yet they stuck with the same plays, they executed well and the offense worked. Better execution wins over complex playcalling every single day. The offense knows where they are going, the defense thinks they know where the offense is going but they really aren't sure.



My gut feeling is the same as I've had for a few seasons now. This is really bad offense at its core. It goes beyond personnel, beyond execution, this is just not a good scheme. You can't run a scheme where you have THIS much talent and the results are so dismal. Being almost dead last in first down yards, being near the bottom in passing offense continually, it just doesn't cut it anymore. Opposing defenses have caught on, they understand what is coming and what this offense wants to do and I'm really tired of this offense continually playing into the defense's hands. This season is the worst offensively since the Hostler era, it so frustrating and the lack of leadership on offense is quite telling. When this team gets into a situation like 2nd and 15, 2nd and 20, they pretty much shut down and most of the times you can count on them gaining very few yards after that, or on 3rd and 8, you can count on them picking up 6 or 7 yards with the ball winding up in front of the first down marker. This has been happening continually since 2011.



Additionally, for all the people chanting "just run the ball." Not sure if you've noticed but this really isn't a power running offense anymore. With the various injuries on the OL, with guys regressing, they aren't enforcing their will on opposing defenses, the holes that were popping up in previous seasons....aren't there anymore and teams are happily loading up the box to stuff the run and dare this team to throw. Gore has done an INCREDIBLE job in turning a whole lot of nothing into something. Hyde as well has had moments where he should have been stuffed a few yards behind the line of scrimmage but still picked up 3 or 4 yards somehow. I don't see the RB's as the problem but the OL simply isn't as good, defenses are selling out to stop the run and there is no coherent passing offense to pick up the slack. This is not a modern passing offense by any stretch. Dilfer last year talked about this being an "archaic, 1970s passing offense" and he was right on the money. This looks like a Steelers offense from the 70s, which was great in that time but since then, defenses have more than adapted.




In short, this teams needs a change in direction on offense. There's too much stuff going wrong to blame it on any one party but I think this sort of stuff tends to snowball and pretty soon, nothing is working right. The run game isn't working right, the passing offense isn't working right, the OL isn't blocking right, the QB isn't looking right, everything is off and that lands directly at the feet of the coaching staff. Changes need to be made, whether or without their consent, as great a job as the defense has done, the offense has been pretty mediocre and without some changes in the scheme, I don't think there's any good reason to expec things to get better. As far as Kaepernick goes, as I said, its tough to gauge the extent of how much he's screwing up and how much the offense is forcing him to be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. I'm not ready to give up on him simply because a lot of the issues that we are seeing.....existed before he even became the starting quarterback. He's maddeningly inconsistent but has enough potential that I'd like to see what he can do with a more effective offensive scheme.

<Standing up, clapping loudly!> I agree with you 100% I have also been saying for a while now that they are not using Kaep's strengths and I have also been using the round peg- square hole example. Great post!

Awesome to read a ton of great posts in this thread. Continue the great discussions

Originally posted by tohara3:
Awesome to read a ton of great posts in this thread. Continue the great discussions

Bump--agree this discussion should continue.