Is the read-option dead in SF?

lol, you guys obviously didn't see Hyde score a TD yesterday off a read-option.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by MarkD:

Teams are using an 8 man box and blitzing us now. Very similar to what the Ravens did in the Super Bowl. With out any receivers that are quick of the line and can beat the jam its pretty much gone.

That makes it even more important he has to use his legs to make plays.

It depends how they rush. If the Rush straight up the field not leaving any gaps then no.

Originally posted by nj9er:
During the Giants game we ran it a few times and they had a defender squat on the opposite side of the play. Exactly where Kap ran to. It worked up until the Super Bowl but the defense figured out how to neutralize its effectiveness. Since the Roman's one trick has been exposed and the explosiveness of Kap and the running the game has declined with it. So now it's back to let's shift around all crazy for 10 seconds to run a draw.

I agree. The 49ers ran it a bunch of times versus NYG. It is still a wrinkle that they go to every now and then. Teams would rather take away Kap's keeper than Gore's dive. As long as Kap is the QB and he has his legs, the read option should stay in the playbook as a wrinkle, not a staple. Hyde came from a college offense where all he ran was inside zone plays so I think using him as the read option RB probably feels more natural to him right now.

Kap is making a conscious effort to get better as a pocket passer. That mixed with the coaching staff not calling as many read options plays to keep kap healthy. Maybe they're just waiting till the playoffs (if we make it) to let the leash loose. Sometimes I just wish he would play to his strengths, tuck it and run. He could easily get 50+ yards on the ground every game if he just played like he did his first season.

Rascal, you should read the interview Steve Young did on developing mobile QB's. He hits it on the head. Forcing Kaep to learn the nuances of playing QB from the pocket is the only way to really make him a great player. Otherwise he'll continue to be game-planned in the big games because he's too one dimensional.

He needs to master all elements of the game.

Originally posted by domingo360:
Rascal, you should read the interview Steve Young did on developing mobile QB's. He hits it on the head. Forcing Kaep to learn the nuances of playing QB from the pocket is the only way to really make him a great player. Otherwise he'll continue to be game-planned in the big games because he's too one dimensional.

He needs to master all elements of the game.

I did read it actually. Not that I don't agree with him, but it would take a long time like I said.

In other words, what I am saying is if we want to win now, we have to let Kap be himself. Contrary to what you are saying, it will allow him to be multi-dimensional much like what he was in 2012. Right now, he has become one-dimensional cos he has pretty much stopped all running, there is no dual threat anymore.

Originally posted by Rascal:
I did read it actually. Not that I don't agree with him, but it would take a long time like I said.

In other words, what I am saying is if we want to win now, we have to let Kap be himself. Contrary to what you are saying, it will allow him to be multi-dimensional much like what he was in 2012. Right now, he has become one-dimensional cos he has pretty much stopped all running, there is no dual threat anymore.

He was one-dimensional in 2012 too. The difference then was that there wasn't enough film on him for DC's to game plan so he had a lot of success. Now there's film and they're taking things away from him and he hasn't been able to overcome that. Just tucking and running is a short term Band-Aid for a deeper issue

Yup it's dead, not because it's not good, but because JH & Roman have coached Kap's legs out the playbook. I feel they are trying to coach him into something he's not

Originally posted by domingo360:
He was one-dimensional in 2012 too. The difference then was that there wasn't enough film on him for DC's to game plan so he had a lot of success. Now there's film and they're taking things away from him and he hasn't been able to overcome that. Just tucking and running is a short term Band-Aid for a deeper issue

How was it one-dimensional when Kap broke the record with 180 yards of rushing with 2 rushing TDs as well as 263 yards of passing and 2 passing TDs in the Packers divisional playoff game ?! And no running is not a "Band-Aid" for a deeper issue. The play is not always going to be there, it is about not giving up negative yards and moving the chains. Is a very aggressive form of offense cos you are always pushing the ball downfield.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Yup it's dead, not because it's not good, but because JH & Roman have coached Kap's legs out the playbook. I feel they are trying to coach him into something he's not

That is exactly what I am saying.

Why draft a dual-threat QB when deep down you want to turn him into a polished pocket passer ? The whole move is counter-intuitive. Likewise, you don't draft a pocket passer with great potential and try to turn him into a dual-threat QB. Is always going to be far easier to build on a strength than to coach on a weakness.

The analogy is like you buy a Ferrari cos you want to go fast on-road, you can easily make it even faster if you add on a supercharger or a turbo. But, you don't modify the entire drive train and put on huge knobby tires to turn it into a 4x4 to go off-road right ?

Just look at last year's NFCCG, Kap ripped the Seahawks with his legs for 130 yards of rushing while he only had 153 yards of passing.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Yup it's dead, not because it's not good, but because JH & Roman have coached Kap's legs out the playbook. I feel they are trying to coach him into something he's not

That is exactly what I am saying.

Why draft a dual-threat QB when deep down you want to turn him into a polished pocket passer ? The whole move is counter-intuitive. Likewise, you don't draft a pocket passer with great potential and try to turn him into a dual-threat QB. Is always going to be far easier to build on a strength than to coach on a weakness.

The analogy is like you buy a Ferrari cos you want to go fast on-road, you can easily make it even faster if you add on a supercharger or a turbo. But, you don't modify the entire drive train and put on huge knobby tires to turn it into a 4x4 to go off-road right ?

Just look at last year's NFCCG, Kap ripped the Seahawks with his legs for 130 yards of rushing while he only had 153 yards of passing.

They are too worried about losing him to injury for it to be effective. If we had smith and him than he could play every game like its his last and we would be a dominating force. I do not see it losing any more effectiveness because of coaching film. It has lost effectiveness because kap does not sell out like he used to because the coaches do not want him to.

And what Harbaugh is doing with him is what Steve Young also recommended. There may be short term loss for long term gain here. Once he does become a polished pocket passer, his running will easily be re-integrated. What we have to understand is that he's having to re-wire his brain to not default to taking off after the first read(which he was roundly criticized for in this forum) and instead wiring himself to stand there, feel pressure and keep his eyes downfield. That a very big shift. Can we understand this and have some patience?

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Rizvi49er:

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
watch kap run. he's not the same runner he was when he first came on the scene. Much slower.

this too...seems like he lost a step. just doesn't have same acceleration getting to the edge.

I tell you why. He has now become tentative. Why ? Because Harbaugh has drilled it so far into his head that he has to stand tall in the pocket in order to get to the next level in becoming a polished pocket passer. So, subconsciously he has kind of abandoned the idea of running. When it was his second nature to scramble to make plays when there was pressure, now he is trying to make that throw before he gets sacked. That is the difference. And even when he wants to scramble now, he is often too late. Is a fine line to judge whether he can make that pass before he feels he has to run before he gets sacked. At the moment, he can't make that accurate assessment of the situation.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
They are too worried about losing him to injury for it to be effective. If we had smith and him than he could play every game like its his last and we would be a dominating force. I do not see it losing any more effectiveness because of coaching film. It has lost effectiveness because kap does not sell out like he used to because the coaches do not want him to.

But, you can't play worried all the time, it is never going to win you games in a consistent basis. Besdies, Kap normally doesn't get hit on the run anyway cos he slides. In fact, he gets way more hits staying in the pocket, he is afterall the most sacked QB in the league right now.

Originally posted by barrymartin:
And what Harbaugh is doing with him is what Steve Young also recommended. There may be short term loss for long term gain here. Once he does become a polished pocket passer, his running will easily be re-integrated. What we have to understand is that he's having to re-wire his brain to not default to taking off after the first read(which he was roundly criticized for in this forum) and instead wiring himself to stand there, feel pressure and keep his eyes downfield. That a very big shift. Can we understand this and have some patience?

I fully understand that. If that is the case, then we shouldn't be talking about winning at all cos is not working right now. I don't know how long will it take, may be at least another season, by then the team will be completely different anyway.

But, like I said, what Harbaugh is doing is totally counter-intuitive. It would have been far easier to draft a pocket passer QB to polish him off than to turn a dual-threat QB into a polished pocket passer.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by nj9er:

During the Giants game we ran it a few times and they had a defender squat on the opposite side of the play. Exactly where Kap ran to. It worked up until the Super Bowl but the defense figured out how to neutralize its effectiveness. Since the Roman's one trick has been exposed and the explosiveness of Kap and the running the game has declined with it. So now it's back to let's shift around all crazy for 10 seconds to run a draw.

I agree. The 49ers ran it a bunch of times versus NYG. It is still a wrinkle that they go to every now and then. Teams would rather take away Kap's keeper than Gore's dive. As long as Kap is the QB and he has his legs, the read option should stay in the playbook as a wrinkle, not a staple. Hyde came from a college offense where all he ran was inside zone plays so I think using him as the read option RB probably feels more natural to him right now.

I didn't see the read/option much in the game. Some of those plays are misdirections or blasts where kaep was never going to keep the ball. The Hyde TD was no option, it was his the whole way. I think kaep just runs a feign to slow the linemen on a lot of plays.

I think the offense would cash in if they were to reintroduce the true dual threat QB to defenses. And not just by running, but by the play action that it begs for. I just see a vanilla and fairly one demential offense that needs a spark.

I will illustrate why with just a few points:
- have topped 30 points just once this season
-have scored 2 4th qt. TDs on the season
-have scored 20 points or fewer 6 of 11 times, including the last 4 of 5

We've faced only a few defenses that are even considered decent. Right now the offense is conforming to the defense and not imposing its will. The read option will tighten defenses up and lead to some big plays. At least is has in the past.