What is the problem with our offense?

Originally posted by Antix:
It's playcalling and an all around schizo passing game. I said in another thread, if we gave Norv Turner this exact playbook I think we'd score 30ppg. I'm no expert, but from what I've learned in the film thread is that football, for all the glitz and glam, really is a simple game. Our playbook might not have cutting edge passing concepts, but I think it's good enough to win a championship. I see open receivers at times and I see a TON of plays left on the field by the offense. Problem is we don't have a rhythm and it doesn't ever seem like the offense breaks the huddle KNOWING "Hey, this is gonna be a big play"

It's my theory that Roman just doesn't know how to play to the strengths of the offense within the playbook. I don't think we need a new playbook or a new system, just a playcaller who knows when to call a play action and knows how to play to the strengths of the o-line. A playcaller that knows how to beat the blitz and keep a defense guessing. We have the plays to do it, but we just can't execute. OC, QB, O-LIne and Receivers are never all on the same page passing play to passing play. When we run, the o-line and RBs usually are pretty good. But when we pass, it's a crap-shoot every time.

It's also become obvious to me (and most of you) that this offense is the cause of any tensions between Baalke and Harbaugh. Say what you will about Baalke, but this offense has the talent to be exceptional. However, Harb's philosophy of keeping games close undermines the personnel on the team. If I was Baalke and I busted my ass to get a team 4 1000 yard receivers and pro-bowlers and all-pros all over the field only to score 16 points after getting 5 turnovers, well I'd be pretty pissed too. Especially when the defense is perennially top 5 even with backup players in.

Somewhat agree here but remember, Roman doesn't call the passing game. According to Harbaugh Roman calls the runs, Cryst calls the passes and Harbaugh mediates between the two. That's why I think this system is largely to blame...too clunky!

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Well this is a new question

You don't have to cuss at me

lol

Lack of weapons is actually a new one. My co worker said Niner fans are overrating our weapons, because most of our WRs are old, our RB is old, and our TE forgot about who he is.

I'm starting to agree.

Look at what New England has done over the years with the group of receivers they have had over the years. Whether it is coaching, Brady or both they get counted out all the time because of supposed lack of offensive talent. Then they seem to contend year in and year out no matter who Brady is throwing to, or who is running the ball.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Well this is a new question

You don't have to cuss at me

lol

Lack of weapons is actually a new one. My co worker said Niner fans are overrating our weapons, because most of our WRs are old, our RB is old, and our TE forgot about who he is.

I'm starting to agree.

Lol..

I wanted to make a poll. I was thinking about that last night. Maybe we value our players way more than they can actually produce on the field.

I might agree in one aspect. None of our main WR's has any speed that scares defenses. That's possibly one area fans are over rating our pass catchers in.

Our pass catchers have been dropping a lot of passes. More than they dropped last year.

This is true. And at the same time, all you have to do is compare our pass catchers to the other contenders out there who actually possess "intimidating threats" ...

Cowboys - Dez Bryant
Packers - Jordy Nelson, Cobb
Lions - Megatron, Tate
Eagles - Mccoy, Maclin
Bears - Marshall, Jeffrey
Saints - Graham
Cardinals - Floyd, Fitz
Patriots - Gronk
Broncos - Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas
Colts - Ty Hilton
Steelers - Antonio Brown
Bengals - AJ Green

These teams have true #1s. And at this point I think it's fair to say that the niners have a lot of "average" weapons, but NO ONE is scared of any of them (this could be the reason why Seattle struggles on offense too). VD has been our only pass catching threat for years, but he's but a shell of his old self.

Originally posted by BobS:
Look at what New England has done over the years with the group of receivers they have had over the years. Whether it is coaching, Brady or both they get counted out all the time because of supposed lack of offensive talent. Then they seem to contend year in and year out no matter who Brady is throwing to, or who is running the ball.

Well, that's obvious because they have Tom Brady, one of the best QBs in the history of this game.

Originally posted by BobS:
Look at what New England has done over the years with the group of receivers they have had over the years. Whether it is coaching, Brady or both they get counted out all the time because of supposed lack of offensive talent. Then they seem to contend year in and year out no matter who Brady is throwing to, or who is running the ball.

This is one of the most frustrating aspect of the 9ers failures on offense. Lose your top three receivers? No problem...let's see who have been cut recently...hmm...let's give him a call. New star receiver for NE!

I think it is largely coaching. They understand that you have to balance the offense to keep the D guessing...and they know how to do it. It might take a few games, as it did this year, but they get there...every year!

offensive play calling ESP in the redzone.
coaches not putting their players to play to their strengths
offensive line cant pass protect
colin doesnt know how to climb and work the pocket; takes bad sacks
offense doesnt know how to adjust to beat the blitz
pass catchers are underachieving (vernon and crabs) or pass catchers are being under utilized (stevie J)
still don't know our identity on offense
too many hands in the cookie jar as far as play calling
Colin making questionable decisions on offense. (seems to be diong better as of late)
lack of killer instinct



that's to name a few...

Not lack of weapons. I think it is a combo of Roman and playing calling, Kaep still learning and growing & the OL in general. Don't forget about V Davis. Don't know what is happening with him but if he were having an average year it would open things up a little more.

Have Harbaugh and Roman ever insisted on Kap developing more touch on his passes?
Or worked on simplifying his motion? which is mostly to blame for his inconsistency.
Or allow him to improvise more, which has had better results than most called plays?
Or allow him to throw more interceptions if it produces two to three times more TDs?

I think that the early success of Kaep is actually hurting this team..

Out of no where, he became an instant star.. so many people forgot that he was only in his 2nd year.. so many forgot the possibility that he's not even a complete player yet.. instead of allowing him to grow and learn more about the league and other defenses.

And now that defenses are designing ways to stop him, Kaep just do not know what to do.. again, being young, he must be seeing things for the 1st time in his life.. he is adjusting to the opposing defenses ..

Defenses around the league have found and learned all his tendencies.. his strength and his weaknesses... it's no different than having problem dealing w/a backup QB because all week, a team had prepared for the starter, and once an un-known backup plays, defenses struggles against such person..

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Well this is a new question

You don't have to cuss at me

lol

Lack of weapons is actually a new one. My co worker said Niner fans are overrating our weapons, because most of our WRs are old, our RB is old, and our TE forgot about who he is.

I'm starting to agree.

Look at what New England has done over the years with the group of receivers they have had over the years. Whether it is coaching, Brady or both they get counted out all the time because of supposed lack of offensive talent. Then they seem to contend year in and year out no matter who Brady is throwing to, or who is running the ball.

Bob, our swagf*g qb isn't Brady. The real problem seems to be Roman, Chryst and Harbaugh. At this point I am about ready for all three of them to be gone. Vic Fangio and the defensive staff are doing a great job, but the whole offensive staff sucks. I bet Norv Turner could get some production out of the offensive talent we have. Hell, right now even Jimmy Raye would be an upgrade.

Originally posted by verb1der:
This is true. And at the same time, all you have to do is compare our pass catchers to the other contenders out there who actually possess "intimidating threats" ...

Cowboys - Dez Bryant
Packers - Jordy Nelson, Cobb
Lions - Megatron, Tate
Eagles - Mccoy, Maclin
Bears - Marshall, Jeffrey
Saints - Graham
Cardinals - Floyd, Fitz
Patriots - Gronk
Broncos - Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas
Colts - Ty Hilton
Steelers - Antonio Brown
Bengals - AJ Green

These teams have true #1s. And at this point I think it's fair to say that the niners have a lot of "average" weapons, but NO ONE is scared of any of them (this could be the reason why Seattle struggles on offense too). VD has been our only pass catching threat for years, but he's but a shell of his old self.

49ers have Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, Stevie Johnson and Vernon Davis. That's enough receiving targets to go around, I just don't think that this scheme ever utilizes them properly. Not having a true vertical threat at WR to stretch the field is also another limitation.



A bunch of guys you put on that list aren't even #1 receivers, good receivers, but not drastically more talented than what the 49ers have, they just utilize those targets better.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Have Harbaugh and Roman ever insisted on Kap developing more touch on his passes?
Or worked on simplifying his motion? which is mostly to blame for his inconsistency.
Or allow him to improvise more, which has had better results than most called plays?
Or allow him to throw more interceptions if it produces two to three times more TDs?

I swear ever since Sherman intercepted him in the back of the end zone, they've seemingly outlawed throws across the middle of the endzone.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Have Harbaugh and Roman ever insisted on Kap developing more touch on his passes?
Or worked on simplifying his motion? which is mostly to blame for his inconsistency.
Or allow him to improvise more, which has had better results than most called plays?
Or allow him to throw more interceptions if it produces two to three times more TDs?

Bingo! Just don't think Har/Ro put much emphasis on the passing game be it development of Kaepernick, practicing throwing in the Red Zone or for that matter developing a sophisticated passing attack. When the going gets rough, the offensive game plan gets watered down. We go back to running between the tackles as our main source of moving the chains.

When we get down in games and we need to switch gears, the passing game is clunky and rusty. Poor CK is never allowed to get into any type of rhythm and it shows. That long pass to Crabtree last week aside, we simply don't put much pressure on the opposing CBs.

We severely miss Vernon Davis. Don't know if he's mentally checked out or is injured or both but he was Colin's primary weapon and he did a good job of stretching the field. Without him, we have three slower possession receivers running simplified routes.

It's not a recipe for offensive excitement. Harbaugh knows he can muddle thru on offense, kick his beloved field goals and rely on Fangio's defense to be the real superstars of the team.

Frustrating? Yes. Will it change as long as Jim Harbaugh is coach? No. The offense will continue to be as varied as Jim's wardrobe. Jim Harbaugh is a creature of habit to the nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnth degree.

Kaepernick is the problem. Big arm, fast legs and doesn't get the concepts of being an actual QB like going through reads and progressions. There is so much he does not see. And what he does see he does not see fast enough to be effective. Plus the constant force it to Crabtree all the time stuff.

One thing that will help is a receiver who can get off the jam and is faster than a defensive lineman. Also a #1 (Crabtree) who can stay on his feet and off his ass. We do not have that.