Do you believe Colin Kaepernick is the answer at QB?

If you don't think Kap is the answer, let me refresh your memory of what we've had since 2002 when Jeff Garcia left.

Tim Rattay
Ken Dorsey
Cody Pickett
Trent Dilfer
Shaun Hill
Chris Weinke
J.T. O'Sullivan
Troy Smith
Alex Smith

You try to be an effective QB when you're being hounded on all day. Yes, a couple of those 8 sacks are on Kap no doubt, but the majority were not. Not even Peyton Manning right now could be effective in this offense. The offensive line simply needs to play better. Kap has done nothing but get better and better since he's started. He's becoming more of a complete QB. Occasionally he'll cost us a game or two. That's what any QB will do. Even the best of them. We all just need to chill. I, for one, am finally ready for a change of offense though. Greg Roman needs to go. Many of you have been preaching this for over a year, but now in his fourth year as OC, the offense has shown little to no growth, or when it has shown growth, it digresses back to its former state the following week.

Basically, we need to win seven of our next eight in order for any chance for the playoffs though, or at least for Arizona to fall flat on their face. At least I know we're strong at QB for the first time since 2002 (and possibly Alex Smith's resurgence in 2011).

Originally posted by Phil:
agree 100%. I've been trying, for weeks, to get people to see that it's not just Roman and the o line at fault here. I think with Kap, what we see us what we get. Unpolished inconsistent play from the pocket. A great running threat who can't read defenses, throw shorter/quick passes down the middle or hit guys in stride with consistency. Can't throw with an arch over defenders at the line and at the point of reception with consistency. Gets flustered and can't recover. Can't get comeback wins. Is stuck on Crabtree in clutch moments. Makes too many mistakes from the pocket in clutch moments and in the redzone. He's better when limited to less than 20 passes with more running. Better killing teams with his legs. This is a passing league now. With all this WR talent we may need a better pocket passer. More refined.

Absolutely. The thing that sticks out most like you said is he can't throw with accuracy when he tries to put more air under the ball. Just look at those sideline and endzone fades last night, he overthrew all of them. He just doesn't have a natural high release like say Russell Wilson.

The best way to play Kap is like the way we played him in 2012. Establish the run and let him throw a few big play action passes.Let him use his legs and be a proper dual-threat QB as opposed to forcing him to be a pocket passer. In essence, we are shooting ourselves in the foot, look at Kap now, he can't be that polished pocket passer and what's worse is he doesn't run enough to make plays and worse still he doesn't run in time when there is pressure so he gets sacked.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I'll say this:

It's possible Kaepernick is not the answer (I hold out hope because of OL issues).

But I would also say that Wilson is no better long term for Seattle for his own reasons.

Only difference is that we couldn't get it done with CK, and Wilson was able to luck out.

I saw on .NET some guys questioning Wilson as the answer too.

The 2012 season was some freak mirage where the success of RG3 at all costs sprouted guys like Kap and Wilson in the most unexpected way.

Sorry bro, that is BS.

Even if you don't like Wilson's game, the guy can still generate over 400 yards of offense by himself to get it done. The guy has poise and is able to adapt his game accordingly during a game.

I am not saying he is the second coming of Joe Montana, but I would take him over Kap any day.

Talk about getting your facts way off base. Yes, Wilson had one of these "400 yards of offense by himself" kinds of games a few weeks ago, but that was only the second time in his career that he's done that. TWICE in 45 games. Not exactly eye-popping numbers.

And guess what? Kap has done it twice as well (but in 37 games as a starter). Kap has also gotten a few high 300s. So basically, your statement is way off basis. Try again.

He is who we thought he was... an athletic kid with a cannon arm. He'd be a better WR than QB.

He has never had touch, and you can't teach that. And you can't rely on your cannon to get the job done, right Jay Cutler?

He needs to utilize the checkdown. He needs to manage a game. If he can't successfully manage a game, how can he go out and "just play?"

He's better than a bunch of NFL QBs, and he may even win a SB with the personnel around him. But he's not a true long term answer.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me... this choking at the last second with the game on the line thing is becoming a trend.

Originally posted by DavidWGibson:
He is who we thought he was... an athletic kid with a cannon arm. He'd be a better WR than QB.

He has never had touch, and you can't teach that. And you can't rely on your cannon to get the job done, right Jay Cutler?

He needs to utilize the checkdown. He needs to manage a game. If he can't successfully manage a game, how can he go out and "just play?"

He's better than a bunch of NFL QBs, and he may even win a SB with the personnel around him. But he's not a true long term answer.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me... this choking at the last second with the game on the line thing is becoming a trend.

How many of these last second losses, albeit on Kap, have been due to a questionable call though? Basically the majority of Kap's "chokes" have been, sans the NFCCG last year.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I hear what you're saying.

Something was surprising to me today:

While I respect the effort to turn Kap into a pocket QB (and I saw numerous broken plays where he never took his eyes off of his receivers), I still thought there should have been one or two delayed scrambles, no?

Why was there not one designed run for Kap to make something happen out of nothing? I like the fact that we don't do it much, but figured we should treat every game like the playoffs in that we should at least have these plays ready if need be, esp. late in the game like that.

We could have won the game literally without it, but if a QB or more importantly an OFFENSE struggles with pass protection the way it did, that would seem to be the answer.

With Wilson there is no question of him taking it upon himself to do it, but with Kap it seems like it has to be called in from Roman for it to happen.

Say what you want about CK, but he can generate offense on his own as we saw in the NFCC.

Well, he can generate offense, but just not the way we want him to which is the problem.

I have posted about this before and I will say it again. You know what we are doing ? We drafted a dual-threat QB and then we want to turn him into a pocket passer. That to me just doesn't make sense. It is just counter-intuitive. If we wanted a refined pocket passer in the first place, we should have drafted a pure pocket passer. Wouldn't it be much easier to develop a given QB based on his strengths as opposed to his weakness ? In short, we are basically trying to turn Kap into something that he is not.

This new pass-heavy spread offensive philosophy is just BS. We should go back to what we did in 2012. Does the divisional playoff game against the Packers ring a bell ? Establish the run, throw off the play action and unleash dual-threat QB play with the read option. We were explosive and more importantly successful with it back then !!

Bottom line, as long as Kap is still our QB, unleash him and let him do his thing. He is thinking too much now and he doesn't want to run because he doesn't want to be seen as crap in the pocket. This whole situation with the current QB play is just awkward to say the least.

he is what he is: firehose arm, with a too small library of throws he can make, and a personality that can't dissipate the heat caused by the friction of the pocket.
a big part of quarterbacking is the infinitely variable amount of finesse you can put on the ball in order to place it where it has to be for the throw to have the most success. where this really comes home to roost is in the red zone; he's like a fish out of water much of the time. just look what brady can do with the ball in the red zone; perfect mechanics allow him to thread whatever needle needs threading down there. but, with kaep, it's like sewing lingerie with a machete.

Originally posted by ElDannMann:

Originally posted by DavidWGibson:
He is who we thought he was... an athletic kid with a cannon arm. He'd be a better WR than QB.

He has never had touch, and you can't teach that. And you can't rely on your cannon to get the job done, right Jay Cutler?

He needs to utilize the checkdown. He needs to manage a game. If he can't successfully manage a game, how can he go out and "just play?"

He's better than a bunch of NFL QBs, and he may even win a SB with the personnel around him. But he's not a true long term answer.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me... this choking at the last second with the game on the line thing is becoming a trend.

How many of these last second losses, albeit on Kap, have been due to a questionable call though? Basically the majority of Kap's "chokes" have been, sans the NFCCG last year.

I disagree. Each of the plays have fallen directly on Kap. Go back and watch the plays... the "big games" both had him locking on to Crabtree with other options wide open. This one he can't even hold on to the ball.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents. I'm not gonna get into a Kap debate.

Either you do it or you don't do it, simple enough. Joe did it 4 times, Steve once, Kap is 0-3. Joe never made excuses, he covered the guys around him, any mistakes he took the blame. The team bet on Kap with the long term deal at the start of the season, in hindsight letting him play out the year looks better at this point.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

I'll say this:

It's possible Kaepernick is not the answer (I hold out hope because of OL issues).

But I would also say that Wilson is no better long term for Seattle for his own reasons.

Only difference is that we couldn't get it done with CK, and Wilson was able to luck out.

I saw on .NET some guys questioning Wilson as the answer too.

The 2012 season was some freak mirage where the success of RG3 at all costs sprouted guys like Kap and Wilson in the most unexpected way.

Sorry bro, that is BS.

Even if you don't like Wilson's game, the guy can still generate over 400 yards of offense by himself to get it done. The guy has poise and is able to adapt his game accordingly during a game.

I am not saying he is the second coming of Joe Montana, but I would take him over Kap any day.

I hear what you're saying.

Something was surprising to me today:

While I respect the effort to turn Kap into a pocket QB (and I saw numerous broken plays where he never took his eyes off of his receivers), I still thought there should have been one or two delayed scrambles, no?

Why was there not one designed run for Kap to make something happen out of nothing? I like the fact that we don't do it much, but figured we should treat every game like the playoffs in that we should at least have these plays ready if need be, esp. late in the game like that.

We could have won the game literally without it, but if a QB or more importantly an OFFENSE struggles with pass protection the way it did, that would seem to be the answer.

With Wilson there is no question of him taking it upon himself to do it, but with Kap it seems like it has to be called in from Roman for it to happen.

Say what you want about CK, but he can generate offense on his own as we saw in the NFCC.

How many turnovers on him in that game? We couldn't run because they were stacking the box and daring us to throw. He couldn't get much going with the passing game so Kap running was pretty much the only option. And it ended on a throw to Crabtree in the corner of the endzone on an ill advised pass. We lost.

Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Talk about getting your facts way off base. Yes, Wilson had one of these "400 yards of offense by himself" kinds of games a few weeks ago, but that was only the second time in his career that he's done that. TWICE in 45 games. Not exactly eye-popping numbers.

And guess what? Kap has done it twice as well (but in 37 games as a starter). Kap has also gotten a few high 300s. So basically, your statement is way off basis. Try again.

Not at all.

Kap can generate 300+ yards of offense mainly when things are going relatively OK. The difference is when Wilson generated over 400 yards of offense by himself recently was when he decided to take over the game and take it upon himself to get it done. Kap tried to do the same once in last year's NFCCG against the Seahawks and ended up committing 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter which cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.

Yes he is. Football is a game that is won and lost in the trenches... The offensive line part of that equation has just been horrendous, especially in the last two games.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Either you do it or you don't do it, simple enough. Joe did it 4 times, Steve once, Kap is 0-3. Joe never made excuses, he covered the guys around him, any mistakes he took the blame. The team bet on Kap with the long term deal at the start of the season, in hindsight letting him play out the year looks better at this point.

For me it was never hindsight, I never wanted to give him the big contract so soon in the first place. I was hoping this will be a make or break year for him to see whether he truly deserves the contract and wanted to draft Jimmy Garoppolo to give Kap a run for his money. Oh well, that's all history now.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Talk about getting your facts way off base. Yes, Wilson had one of these "400 yards of offense by himself" kinds of games a few weeks ago, but that was only the second time in his career that he's done that. TWICE in 45 games. Not exactly eye-popping numbers.

And guess what? Kap has done it twice as well (but in 37 games as a starter). Kap has also gotten a few high 300s. So basically, your statement is way off basis. Try again.

Not at all.

Kap can generate 300+ yards of offense mainly when things are going relatively OK. The difference is when Wilson generated over 400 yards of offense by himself recently was when he decided to take over the game and take it upon himself to get it done. Kap tried to do the same once in last year's NFCCG against the Seahawks and ended up committing 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter which cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.

So, "getting it done" means losing? Because, I mean, both of Wilson's 400+ yard games have been losses whereas both of Kap's 400+ yard games have been wins.

I honestly fail to see your logic.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Either you do it or you don't do it, simple enough. Joe did it 4 times, Steve once, Kap is 0-3. Joe never made excuses, he covered the guys around him, any mistakes he took the blame. The team bet on Kap with the long term deal at the start of the season, in hindsight letting him play out the year looks better at this point.

For me it was never hindsight, I never wanted to give him the big contract so soon in the first place. I was hoping this will be a make or break year for him to see whether he truly deserves the contract and wanted to draft Jimmy Garoppolo to give Kap a run for his money. Oh well, that's all history now.

Doesn't it become a normal contract after 2 years? Which is around the time Harbs' contract is up... it would seem this is one of those make or break relationships.