You want a shake up? Wait until your least favorite OL has a concussion and is then shipped off to Kansas City where he plays like a 300 lb Harris Barton. OLxcuses.
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Offensive Line Shake up?
Nov 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM
- JoeisGod
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Nov 5, 2014 at 2:39 PM
- NCommand
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Originally posted by DeUh:
Originally posted by thl408:
Can anyone here provide input on why the 49ers Olinemen are struggling at the lowest level of detail? I'm not talking about stats, or rankings, or ratings. I'm talking about technique. Waist bend, knee bend, hand battles, feet, balance. Things like that. I understans that each of the Olineman may be struggling at different areas. Basically, someone call out Solari for things he is or isn't teaching the linemen to do. Also, I don't believe that the Oline is not physically strong enough to handle their assignments, yet they seem to get overpowered, not recognize stunts/blitzes until it's too late.
We need WRATH in here.
He's the best, no doubt, esp. re: technique.
Nov 5, 2014 at 2:42 PM
- matt49er
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by matt49er:
@JohnMiddlekauff 29m29 minutes ago
"Penalties, dumb blocks, dumb techniques and dumb schemes. We played like sh't" - Joe Staley postgame, Shot at the Off coaches?
It's the coaching people! Young, very good players don't just fall off a cliff, Roman can't figure out what scheme he wants to run, his mind is boggled given all our offensive weapons right now & he can't compute. The answer is the team needs to go back to power run offense, once the run is established, use a little spread formation but 3 WRs, utilize the backup receivers by having them sub in for each other etc.
Wow. I actually have some extra respect for Staley on this one...that's pretty telling esp. given the game he had as well! We were running well with Miller out in front leading the way against the 31st ranked defense against the run and then abandon it...again. No wonder Fischer was so excited to play us today! We played right into the only hand they had!
The entire problem with this team is offensive coaching/game planning. These players on the OL don't just suddenly suck, we need to come out each game and crush opponents with the power run game w/Gore/Hyde, have Kaep on a few designed runs to keep D's on their toes THEN and only then will the play action be formidable, the use of these WR weapons be something we can really utilize. The offense is suffering from an identity crisis.
Nov 5, 2014 at 2:49 PM
- matt49er
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by matt49er:
@JohnMiddlekauff 29m29 minutes ago
"Penalties, dumb blocks, dumb techniques and dumb schemes. We played like sh't" - Joe Staley postgame, Shot at the Off coaches?
It's the coaching people! Young, very good players don't just fall off a cliff, Roman can't figure out what scheme he wants to run, his mind is boggled given all our offensive weapons right now & he can't compute. The answer is the team needs to go back to power run offense, once the run is established, use a little spread formation but 3 WRs, utilize the backup receivers by having them sub in for each other etc.
Wow. I actually have some extra respect for Staley on this one...that's pretty telling esp. given the game he had as well! We were running well with Miller out in front leading the way against the 31st ranked defense against the run and then abandon it...again. No wonder Fischer was so excited to play us today! We played right into the only hand they had!
Saw the Staley comments and he surprised me by mentioning dumb scheme. He's usually more politically correct but he is a leader of the line as the oldest vet, so perhaps this represents the attitude of most of the line. I think there is a schism between the WRs and Kaepernick, who want to pass more, and the line and Gore who want to continue to use the power run game. This wouldn't be unusual...most teams have some divisiveness over this. Gore and kaepernick doing after game pressers together, before today, may have been an attempt to bridge this divide.
They couldn't run against the Rams in the first game (89 yards, 3.0 per carry). Today they had 3.8 per carry but only ran 21 times. At no time were the niners playing from way behind so there is no reason for the Rams to be able to pass rush like that. If they stuck with that 3.8 yards and ran the ball down the Rams throat...maybe they would have scored another four points!
Would, coulda, shoulda...LOL!
The thing is, you can do both. It's not really about the run/pass ratio, it's about establishing the run, beating the DL up at the LOS early in the game. Do that with our power backs Gore/Hyde, get those guys going, have Kaep do some designed runs to force the team to really account for that every play (whenever we establish Kaep as a runner early it always helps things).
We can still pass and pass a lot, run 3-4 WR sets and utilize all our offensive weapons. Inside the RZ, we need to run Gore and Hyde, Hyde is very under utilized, he should be getting the ball way more, especially inside the RZ. We're suffering from an identity crisis overall and calling horrific plays in the RZ. No reason this team shouldn't be 6-2 at worst.
Nov 5, 2014 at 3:13 PM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a great question b/c even Staley "alluded" to it as well. I watched Boone at RG get shoved all the way back and planted on his ass five yards deep behind Staley at LT. And it's the entire OL too...every single one of them is getting beat with power, quickness, lack of peripheral vision (Davis looking inside and letting his man run clean past him for a 2-second sack), assignments, etc. One thing that stands out to me is that A.Davis, Martin and even Boone look fat, lazy and totally out of shape (more, the former two than Boone though...although he STILL seems out of shape to me as well just based on his p***yness and lack of fight). I'm not even seeing these guys take responsibility or helping CK get up anymore...there is no passion, no drive, no desire, etc. It just seems like they are going through the motions (if that). Something has to be up. And the fact that a coaching staff is letting a 100M QB get blasted like that over and over and over with no personnel changes? How does an ENTIRE OL regress THAT quickly?
The power passing game is, obviously, an aggressive approach to line play. You fire off and hit the other guy in the mouth. Staying low and driving is the key, as well as gaining leverage to push defenders. Pass blocking is the opposite. You still have to stay low but you are anchoring, allowing the D to take the aggressive steps and, if you are using a traditional pocket, you drop and then fire a shorter space as the defender reaches you. You have to maintain your balance while keeping an eye out laterally to prevent LBs sneaking in late.
The SF line is absolutely terrible at the latter and has been for several years. Even last year when folks were saying how great the line was, you could see every game that the guards and center didn't maintain their spacing with each other to prevent late blitzes...no patience at all. My favorite least favorite play was when Boone helped Davis by pushing his guy way to the right of the pocket, leaving a hole behind that a truck could drive through. The LB couldn't help but see this and charge right through for a sack.
I've quoted a former coach of mine before that pass blocking isn't fun or glamorous...but if you have pride in your job it should really bother you if the QB is touched by someone coming through your spot. These guys act like it's just part of the game...oh well...boy he really got by there didn't he? Staley is the only guy who has overtly shown anger after a loss...but most aren't interviewed so I don't want to damn them.
Edit: Kaepernick might have given the linemen a copout by running so well...don't have to really pass block that well...he can get out of trouble. There has to be some reason why this line is so bad at pass blocking...it's largely mental and they are not all rookies.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Nov 5, 2014 at 3:20 PM ]
Nov 5, 2014 at 3:46 PM
- nj9er
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The line has no chemistry. Previous years all 5 guys played almost every game and every snap this year not so much. Injuries to Iupati and Davis and the hold out by Boone has affected their chemistry. Then you have Kilgore & Martin replacing Goodwin these are 1st time starters responsible for protections. Not to mention Vernon's health has probably affected his blocking. The under utilization of Miller is also reason for concern.
Factor in that Hyde and Gore only a total of 12 receptions all year that is an avg of 1.5 a game. Gore in his early days would be 2nd on the team in receiving yards & Hyde in the draft was heralded as a receiving threat out of the back field.
When you have an over aggressive pass rush the RB as a receiving option makes a big difference even if they only gain 2 tor 5 yards its better than taking a sack or throwing the ball away.
Kaepernick is one of the most dangerous QBs in the league with his legs and it seems like he is trying to hard to be a pocket passer. Never worked for Mike Vick and it probably wont work for Kap.
It is up to Offensive Coordinator to make sure the center knows how to shift protections, setup a screen game to keep pas rushers honest, and to play your QB to his strengths. Its up to the head coach to realize when the OC isn't preparing his players correctly to rectify the situation like John did in Baltimore when they fired the OC late in the season.
Now you have a distracted coaching staff most likely looking for new jobs rather than preparing their players and that falls on Trent for not getting an extension done with Jim. Trent needs to be aware that a good HC is just as important as a good GM and Trent for all his wheeling and dealing has wasted some high draft picks on AJ Jenkins, Lattimore, LaMichael James to name a few and missed getting players like Ellington, Keenan Allan, any WR taken in the 1st few rounds this year. He had enough ammo to get Benjamin, Beckham, Cooks, and even Evans. Also passed over TY Hilton, Martavious Bryant, etc. which he decided to use on red shirted players.
The only person in this whole mess of a season who is absolved of any blame is Fangio- This guy has done amazing work on a defense that has replaced most of secondary and LBs over the last 2 season.
Factor in that Hyde and Gore only a total of 12 receptions all year that is an avg of 1.5 a game. Gore in his early days would be 2nd on the team in receiving yards & Hyde in the draft was heralded as a receiving threat out of the back field.
When you have an over aggressive pass rush the RB as a receiving option makes a big difference even if they only gain 2 tor 5 yards its better than taking a sack or throwing the ball away.
Kaepernick is one of the most dangerous QBs in the league with his legs and it seems like he is trying to hard to be a pocket passer. Never worked for Mike Vick and it probably wont work for Kap.
It is up to Offensive Coordinator to make sure the center knows how to shift protections, setup a screen game to keep pas rushers honest, and to play your QB to his strengths. Its up to the head coach to realize when the OC isn't preparing his players correctly to rectify the situation like John did in Baltimore when they fired the OC late in the season.
Now you have a distracted coaching staff most likely looking for new jobs rather than preparing their players and that falls on Trent for not getting an extension done with Jim. Trent needs to be aware that a good HC is just as important as a good GM and Trent for all his wheeling and dealing has wasted some high draft picks on AJ Jenkins, Lattimore, LaMichael James to name a few and missed getting players like Ellington, Keenan Allan, any WR taken in the 1st few rounds this year. He had enough ammo to get Benjamin, Beckham, Cooks, and even Evans. Also passed over TY Hilton, Martavious Bryant, etc. which he decided to use on red shirted players.
The only person in this whole mess of a season who is absolved of any blame is Fangio- This guy has done amazing work on a defense that has replaced most of secondary and LBs over the last 2 season.
Nov 5, 2014 at 7:13 PM
- jimrat
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[ Edited by jimrat on Nov 5, 2014 at 7:15 PM ]
Nov 5, 2014 at 7:25 PM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by jimrat:Boone whiffs and then Hyde manages to escape chipping as he ran by the DL. wow...just not good.
Interesting...Iupati helps the center, opening a hole for Staley to drive his guy past the center, opening a hole for 55 to come through untouched. Are these guys drive blocking in pass protection? And Gore totally whiffs as well...ouch. Watch where the OLmen end up...is that a pocket?
Nov 5, 2014 at 9:50 PM
- 49er_Rider
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Boone has been horrendous after he cried and got paid
Nov 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM
- CityKing415
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Staley, Iupati, Looney, Boone, Davis. That should be the lineup.