Proset Formation

Originally posted by Giedi:
His thesis (link was mentioned previously and to lazy to repost) mentioned cycles, football cycles. I don't have it with me, but he went through the offensive history of various philosophies that came and went as football evolved. What I think he was alluding to and what his desciples probably tried to do is just stay ahead of that cycle or even predict when the cycles change. Just like Walsh was just ahead of that cycle by drafting very small quick linemen to employ the flank run attack - when everybody was using the 3-yards and a cloud of dust philosophy. For exampe: Harbaugh has decided to go with a run first power game while a good portion of the NFL is still running the pass first WCO and defenses are countering it with faster and faster, but smaller and smaller defenders. At least that's my take on it. The failure of Shanahan and Holmgren in the latter stages of their careers may be the result of failing to stay ahead of that particular philosophical cycle.

Yes, I read it earlier and refreshed when you posted. The key to his playbook is that he added to it every day, whether the plays ever saw light of game or not was a different issue. He had enough plays to evolve without having to recreate his book.

As for Gore being too slow for the sweep...I think he has great patience and if the line played in a WCO spread he could still find holes. Getting around end might be a problem but he could always make cutbacks. What I've seen the 9ers do on sweeps is use a sixth lineman and a FB to help get out quickly. That way Iupati and Boone don't have to lead. The good news? M Martin is rated highly in pulling and that may help...though I liked Kilgore as well. If the line went to Kilgore, M Martin and Looney/Thomas it would be...interesting next year.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

His thesis (link was mentioned previously and to lazy to repost) mentioned cycles, football cycles. I don't have it with me, but he went through the offensive history of various philosophies that came and went as football evolved. What I think he was alluding to and what his desciples probably tried to do is just stay ahead of that cycle or even predict when the cycles change. Just like Walsh was just ahead of that cycle by drafting very small quick linemen to employ the flank run attack - when everybody was using the 3-yards and a cloud of dust philosophy. For exampe: Harbaugh has decided to go with a run first power game while a good portion of the NFL is still running the pass first WCO and defenses are countering it with faster and faster, but smaller and smaller defenders. At least that's my take on it. The failure of Shanahan and Holmgren in the latter stages of their careers may be the result of failing to stay ahead of that particular philosophical cycle.

Yes, I read it earlier and refreshed when you posted. The key to his playbook is that he added to it every day, whether the plays ever saw light of game or not was a different issue. He had enough plays to evolve without having to recreate his book.

As for Gore being too slow for the sweep...I think he has great patience and if the line played in a WCO spread he could still find holes. Getting around end might be a problem but he could always make cutbacks. What I've seen the 9ers do on sweeps is use a sixth lineman and a FB to help get out quickly. That way Iupati and Boone don't have to lead. The good news? M Martin is rated highly in pulling and that may help...though I liked Kilgore as well. If the line went to Kilgore, M Martin and Looney/Thomas it would be...interesting next year.

It's even deeper than that. The first chapter of his thesis goes into detail about the rules of the game, specifically the rules on formations and who can and can't be on the line of scrimmage. he devotes a whole chapter to the simple hook patterns and how hook patterns stress and deform defenses in various ways - depending on the formations. Very dense but very fascinating stuff. It takes me several minutes to decipher each paragraph.

My takeaway and personal opinion on Walsh and how he was able to stay ahead of the game was an unbelievable attention to the details of his craft. From knowing the rules to knowing the fundamentals of each offensive position, he had the ability to spot trends in the NFL that he could take advantage of, or avoid being taken advantage of. I think if G-ro started taking boxing lessons, maybe he'll get better as an OC, because he'll know when to punch with the power off tackle, or jab with the quick hitters, or hit with a round house sweeps. On top of that, he might lose some weight and have more stamina to think clearer in the 4rth Qtr when he's run out of twinkies. Walsh was a great boxer and I think that helped him call plays.

Giedi--good points. I've mentioned a number of times on this site that the team needs to be involved at the league level on all important committees...the Competition being primary. Eddy was smart enough to do this, I hope Jed is as well. Even if you don't win your argument on the committee, it informs you just what the reasons are for the rules at a very deep level. Then when you speak to the refs you speak from authority.

As for boxing...Walsh was more a sparing partner than great boxer but he learned well and figured out how to apply the lessons he learned to football. He impressed players by being very good on the speed bag.

When it comes to boxing, one 49er knocked out the #2 heavyweight contender in the world and fought Ali for the title (when he was still Cassius Clay). Charlie Powell, who recorded 10 sacks for -67 yards vs. HOF Bobby Layne in his pro debut as a 49er DE, lost to Ali in a title bout. The 10 sacks didn't count as an NFL record because they came before the league made sacks an official stat...Charlie had just turned 20 years old when he made his debut as a Niner.

I would still like to implement this into our offense this year.. Bring back the funk