Proset Formation

Why have teams stepped away from this formation. Specially teams with good running games and RB depth.. With the Niners having one of the best RB depths, Top 5 TE in running blocking and Receiving, and deep WR corp talent. I would think this would be a great formation to use utilizing Options plays, Playactions, and Passing. Ellington being able to line up as a WR or RB, Run it as a Duel RB set with Hyde/Ellington and Gore on Options plays, Designed run or play action plays with Gore/Hyde and Miller. Just seems like an old fashion formation the 49ers are built to use and be successful with.

You talking about the I formation and split back setups?

I agree it shouldn't be "obsolete". To me the only thing obsolete in the modern NFL offense are the Wishbone and the Wildcat.

Everything else is viable if used properly.

It has value in being a formation we don't usually use. Teams don't prepare for it. If Gore and Hyde are in the backfield, it may influence the second level to hover more to determine who will get the ball. Right now, they seem to have effective tells on our runs so we get blown up a lot -- doesn't matter who's back there Gore Hyde Lattimore Jim Brown.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

It has value in being a formation we don't usually use. Teams don't prepare for it. If Gore and Hyde are in the backfield, it may influence the second level to hover more to determine who will get the ball. Right now, they seem to have effective tells on our runs so we get blown up a lot -- doesn't matter who's back there Gore Hyde Lattimore Jim Brown.

Totally agree with this. I have always loved the pro form (far/near for that matter also), but it's just really tough to consistently run out of these horizontal split formations. However, we do run a far share of far/near in our goaline package.

Specifically concerning the pro set or "red" in the classic walsh offense, it would be hard for our OL to pull to the degree that is needed to perform the old Lombardi sweep. That was really our big run play from that formation. I agree tho that the formation lends itself nicely to a hb passing attack since they are already split out closer to the flats, but my fear would be without a proper run game attached to the formation we would basically be telling the defense what was coming. Now in the harbaugh era we have ran "red" formation a couple of times and it seems like our play of choice from it is the old Playaction slide plays.

I do think you could establish a nice little package of draws and screens from the traditional horizontal formation, but we have how our OL performs in the screen game so it would be hard to be consistently effective doing this. Also, I think you could package that formation with pure speed back there like Ellington and Hyde and run some of our old "Texas", "bingo cross", "hb spread" or "hb arrow" type plays and try to get them isolated on LBers.

Now as a fan, I always loved the aesthetics of the traditional horizontal forms. It just looked awesome watching us carve up teams under center using these forms. They were basically a staple of our offense as recently as 2002 with mooch. But even then, we where running out of I, strong and weak forms. I still watch quite a few old niners games and I still love the sight of Jerry catching a pass on the old "22 Z in" play out of the "red" formation.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
It has value in being a formation we don't usually use. Teams don't prepare for it. If Gore and Hyde are in the backfield, it may influence the second level to hover more to determine who will get the ball. Right now, they seem to have effective tells on our runs so we get blown up a lot -- doesn't matter who's back there Gore Hyde Lattimore Jim Brown.

Totally agree with this. I have always loved the pro form (far/near for that matter also), but it's just really tough to consistently run out of these horizontal split formations. However, we do run a far share of far/near in our goaline package.

Specifically concerning the pro set or "red" in the classic walsh offense, it would be hard for our OL to pull to the degree that is needed to perform the old Lombardi sweep. That was really our big run play from that formation. I agree tho that the formation lends itself nicely to a hb passing attack since they are already split out closer to the flats, but my fear would be without a proper run game attached to the formation we would basically be telling the defense what was coming. Now in the harbaugh era we have ran "red" formation a couple of times and it seems like our play of choice from it is the old Playaction slide plays.

I do think you could establish a nice little package of draws and screens from the traditional horizontal formation, but we have how our OL performs in the screen game so it would be hard to be consistently effective doing this. Also, I think you could package that formation with pure speed back there like Ellington and Hyde and run some of our old "Texas", "bingo cross", "hb spread" or "hb arrow" type plays and try to get them isolated on LBers.

Now as a fan, I always loved the aesthetics of the traditional horizontal forms. It just looked awesome watching us carve up teams under center using these forms. They were basically a staple of our offense as recently as 2002 with mooch. But even then, we where running out of I, strong and weak forms. I still watch quite a few old niners games and I still love the sight of Jerry catching a pass on the old "22 Z in" play out of the "red" formation.

You are good...really, really good!

Spider Y 2 banana....done!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Spider Y 2 banana....done!

Just don't EVER throw the Venus!!!! On spider y banana.

So how about it?

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Spider Y 2 banana....done!

Just don't EVER throw the Venus!!!! On spider y banana.

Originally posted by NCommand:

You are good...really, really good!

I've been on a '92-'94 kick lately. Now, those where the shanahan years and our running game was pretty spectacular in those years.

1992 - 2315 yards 4.8 ave
1993 - 2133 yards 4.6 ave
1994 - 1897 yards 3.9 ave

However, you can notice that there was a bit of erosion though as the yards per carry lost about a yard. In those games, about 2-3 times you would see us run something out of a weak or strong formation. I had always wondered if shanahan recognized this and that's why when he took over Denver his offense pretty much shelved the horizontal forms and was primarily an I, strong, weak team with a zone blocking scheme. I imagine that was his tweak to the WCO to make it his own.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Spider Y 2 banana....done!

Just don't EVER throw the Venus!!!! On spider y banana.

FSU iced the game vs Louisville last night on spider y banana....3rd and 6 from like the 30 or so, sure enough FB left uncovered for a huge td.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You are good...really, really good!

I've been on a '92-'94 kick lately. Now, those where the shanahan years and our running game was pretty spectacular in those years.

1992 - 2315 yards 4.8 ave
1993 - 2133 yards 4.6 ave
1994 - 1897 yards 3.9 ave

However, you can notice that there was a bit of erosion though as the yards per carry lost about a yard. In those games, about 2-3 times you would see us run something out of a weak or strong formation. I had always wondered if shanahan recognized this and that's why when he took over Denver his offense pretty much shelved the horizontal forms and was primarily an I, strong, weak team with a zone blocking scheme. I imagine that was his tweak to the WCO to make it his own.

That's a keen observation right there. I'm sure each original WCO coordinator added their own spin to it to make it their own but that's also te beauty of the system...it's ability to adapt.

Originally posted by NCommand:

That's a keen observation right there. I'm sure each original WCO coordinator added their own spin to it to make it their own but that's also te beauty of the system...it's ability to adapt.

Exactly....holmgren ran a lot more I forms in GB then he did with us. Basically mooch's WCO was mike's.

For all the knocks on mooch he did bring the running game back and in 1998 we ran for like 2500 team yards.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Spider Y 2 banana....done!

Just don't EVER throw the Venus!!!! On spider y banana.

FSU iced the game vs Louisville last night on spider y banana....3rd and 6 from like the 30 or so, sure enough FB left uncovered for a huge td.

Saw that...get Miller out there!