Is it time to re-tool the O line?

The current group with Martin just need more time. Scheme and plsycalling will help. For run plays how about hiking the ball with 10 secs left or even 5 instead of always waiting for it to run to 1sec ? The defenses must pin their ears back on evey play because they're jumping the snap.

Kap has also made the mistake of rolling into the passrush instead of trusting a pocket. That's on him. On some of those he would have been better to take off and run under the middle, but they've been holding him back from doing that lately.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

1. Get a new OL coach. Solari's bunch continues to regress and we still have the same communication issues we have had for 3-4 years. All this talent and we still struggle this bad; it's time to blame the coach and not just the players.

2. Let Iupati go, collect our 3rd (or 4th) round comp. Not much needs to be said here good run blocker below average run blocker some times horrible. He will want way too much.

3. Trade Boone for a 3rd if possible otherwise just keep him and collect our 3rd/4th comp after next year. If Kilgore is starting C next year have Martin/Looney/Thomas fight for the 1 or 2 G spots and best man wins. Martin would still be backup C. If Martin is the starting center next year then Kilgore (backup c then) competes with Looney and Thomas for those 1 or 2 spots and the best 1 or 2 guys win the spot(s). So 3 guys competing for 1 or 2 spots should be a good thing and that's if we don't draft a G or G/T. I think Looney/Thomas/Martin (or Kilgore) will do about the same, maybe a little better at a fraction of the cost of Iupati and Boone.

So depth chart could look something like: Staley..Backup C/Looney/Thomas..Kilgore/Martin..Backup C/Looney/Thomas OR Boone..Davis
I would let Martin go and save ourselves around a mil on the cap. Farrell could make the team as 3rd C/guard depth. If we lose Iupati and Boone I wouldn't mind another G/T for depth. Probably need someone who can be 3rd tackle then. If we lose just Iupati we wouldn't necessarily have to draft someone as Boone would go to tackle and one of the backups come in at guard.

I think coaching is an issue. When Drevno left, our O Line started getting injuries and falling apart. I'm now thinking I wish Drevno stayed and Solari left. Solari is a WCO coach and whether he can translate to more of a power running coach, I don't know, but from the results, so far not so good. It may be a game plan for Harbaugh to transition to a more pass first philosophy that's why Drevno was let go? Specially if Colin continues to progress - a more pass blocking line vs a run blocking line might be better for the offense. I don't know. But I don't think injuries were a big problem when Drevno was still here, for some reason.

Originally posted by Phil:
I'd be interested in a custom stat. One that tells us the success rate of plays that start with one second left on the play clock compared to plays that get off the line faster with about 6 or 7 seconds left on the play clock.

Roman designs the snap to be called with 1-2 seconds left on the play clock on purpose. It forces the opposing defense to show its hand.

The problem is that it makes us very vulnerable to delay of game penalties. Kap has to be perfect with his timing.

I'm glad the zone is getting on the wagon; it took a year and a half too long but better late then never.

Statistically our Oline was dominant in 2011 ONLY! Boone had one godd year and has totally sucked since (this is a fact by the way). Iupati sucked last year too.

Baalke actually knows this which was why he drafted two OL last year, but it was too late.

Originally posted by walshjr1978:

I think part of the reason the o-line isn't playing well, is you've players not playing their best positions. I have been saying for yrs that A.Davis should be playing RG not RT, he and Boone should switch positions. I think M.Martin will help improve runs up the middle against bigger DT, but may struggle a little initially in pass protection. I know boone and davis swap wont happen this season, but I hope they consider it in the offseason.

I have wondered the same thing for awhile.

We'll see in the next 9 games.

IMO, we won't have the same OLine next year - BUT we are still in the hunt this year.

I agree w/many posters who say Iupati's and Boone's performance has slipped.

Boone has more value than Iupati and seems to play LT rather well.

For a few years posters have mentioned moving Boone to LT, Staley to RT ADavis to RG.

Now that we have Martin, Thomas Kilgore and Looney to add to the mix, it may prove interesting.

I hope our pass protection improves since teams like Denver, Seattle can shut our run game down.

Originally posted by bigwads:

I'm glad the zone is getting on the wagon; it took a year and a half too long but better late then never.

Statistically our Oline was dominant in 2011 ONLY! Boone had one godd year and has totally sucked since (this is a fact by the way). Iupati sucked last year too.

Baalke actually knows this which was why he drafted two OL last year, but it was too late.

It really wouldn't surprise me if Baalke drafted high an offensive lineman. With some of our O-linemen set to be free agents, I think he should make that a priority.

Having said that, I don't think our current personnel on the O-Line is so bad that we aren't going to make the playoffs because of it. I think the bad O-Line play is just injuries and mental errors because of a lack of playing time together. A reduction in dings and dents to the O Line and hopefully more playing time together will gel the line and make the 2nd half statistically better for them, hopefully.

Personally, I don't see the need for switches in positions. I like the Tackle and Guard positions to be road graders in this offense, and I think all four starters can do the job as run blockers. As pass blockers, since we are throwing more, it may be exposing our linemen as being average at pass blocking. But that shouldn't matter that much if we are still a run first team.

If this line is truly bad at pass blocking, a big majority of the 7 step drop plays should be dropped. We should go more to a 5 step drop pass play. The fact that our WR's don't have the deep speed and yet we are still play passing and using 7 step drops - still tells me this offense is mis-matched. We just don't have the vertical threats on the outside to do a lot of play passing - specially when our main vertical threat in VD is injured. Play passing when your WR's can't beat DB's deep on a consistent basis just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by bigwads:

Originally posted by walshjr1978:
I think part of the reason the o-line isn't playing well, is you've players not playing their best positions. I have been saying for yrs that A.Davis should be playing RG not RT, he and Boone should switch positions. I think M.Martin will help improve runs up the middle against bigger DT, but may struggle a little initially in pass protection. I know boone and davis swap wont happen this season, but I hope they consider it in the offseason.

I have wondered the same thing for awhile.

I get the Alex Boone thing, but why do so many people think Davis should play RG?

I agree with Giedithat trent takes an OL high in draft next yr, not 3rd or 4th rounders. Staley/Iupati worked great for awhile. Now is time to get another hi draft OL...and then I would do it again next yr. If this is all injuries and being hurt, our 2nd stringers aren't helping much. They play well next two other starters, but put to second string OL together and you got problems.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I get the Alex Boone thing, but why do so many people think Davis should play RG?

Davis struggled with speed rushers his first couple of years, and still does occasionally. He is quick enough but just can't seem to keep his balance when being stretched deep. I think he would be an excellent Guard...perhaps more versatile than either Boone or Iupati. That said, when he is healthy he is a very good RT and you could see the drop off with J Martin, who didn't play poorly while in relief...for a back up. I think Boone is a natuaral tackle...taller, more lean (3 inches taller and thirty pounds lighter than Davis). If you are thinking long term and getting the most out of the line you'd want them all playing their natural positions. Staley has played RT very well, Boone did very well at LT and Davis has played G in HS and at Rutgers--but finished at LT. Quick feet but weight issues in the past made me think he would be a better guard than tackle. I'm pleasantly surprised by how well he has done consistently improving.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I agree with Giedithat trent takes an OL high in draft next yr, not 3rd or 4th rounders. Staley/Iupati worked great for awhile. Now is time to get another hi draft OL...and then I would do it again next yr. If this is all injuries and being hurt, our 2nd stringers aren't helping much. They play well next two other starters, but put to second string OL together and you got problems.

Think that might screw up Baalke's salary schedule...though with the rookie rules it's not as much an issue...at least until their second contract. They've made long term committments to Staley and Davis, and M Martin, Thomas and Kilgore are signed until 2018. That means T and C are secure and G isn't too bad either...all this assuming Martin and Thomas pan out. Looney should be easy to extend so the two real question marks are Boone and Iupati. It could be a downward bidding war as to who signs long term between the two...if either! J Martin, Fonoti and Farrell are interesting young players.

All this to say that if an OL is the BPA they go for it but they deperatly need to continue to boost WR, DB and front 7 on D...depending on the young guys making or breaking...Carradine, Patton/Ellington, Johnson, Ward, Borland, Lynch...so many guys who seem destined to stay with the team for a number of years!

DTG said it well Davis had his struggles (esp quick guys) but has turned out to be a pretty solid RT but I think he could be a beast mauler at RG. Boone has a tackle body and has played really well at LT and RT. It wont happen mid season and after this many years of those guys playing those positions, not to mention Davis being paid 40 mil, but would have been neat to see Boone at LT, Davis at RG, Staley at RT OR Staley LT, Davis RG, Boone RT. Just out of curiosity; I think we would be a better OL that way but would never happen. I mentioned this in another thread but let's say Sparano gets fired after this year if he would consider taking a demotion (after being OC and HC) I'd love for him to replace Solari as OL coach.

Originally posted by BigBug415:
I think the first thing that needs to be done, that won't be done is to move two key players to their natural positions, Boone to LT and Staley to RT.

That might help pass protection a bit???

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

I agree with Giedithat trent takes an OL high in draft next yr, not 3rd or 4th rounders. Staley/Iupati worked great for awhile. Now is time to get another hi draft OL...and then I would do it again next yr. If this is all injuries and being hurt, our 2nd stringers aren't helping much. They play well next two other starters, but put to second string OL together and you got problems.

Dallas copies us and we copy Dallas.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

I agree with Giedithat trent takes an OL high in draft next yr, not 3rd or 4th rounders. Staley/Iupati worked great for awhile. Now is time to get another hi draft OL...and then I would do it again next yr. If this is all injuries and being hurt, our 2nd stringers aren't helping much. They play well next two other starters, but put to second string OL together and you got problems.

Think that might screw up Baalke's salary schedule...though with the rookie rules it's not as much an issue...at least until their second contract. They've made long term committments to Staley and Davis, and M Martin, Thomas and Kilgore are signed until 2018. That means T and C are secure and G isn't too bad either...all this assuming Martin and Thomas pan out. Looney should be easy to extend so the two real question marks are Boone and Iupati. It could be a downward bidding war as to who signs long term between the two...if either! J Martin, Fonoti and Farrell are interesting young players.

All this to say that if an OL is the BPA they go for it but they deperatly need to continue to boost WR, DB and front 7 on D...depending on the young guys making or breaking...Carradine, Patton/Ellington, Johnson, Ward, Borland, Lynch...so many guys who seem destined to stay with the team for a number of years!

Man the current regime of Salary Cap, Free agency, and draft just makes it so hard to retain talent. It's good for the game overall, but it's brutal on each organization. I don't think there is a set in stone time table regarding Salary Schedule with injuries, retirements, and unretirements (Lloyd for example) holdouts etc... I do like the 2014 draft and a lot of those players made the team - which is good for the cap and long term success of the team. We do need skill players and we have devoted cap space to land some talent to our O Line, but I can see cracks forming with the injury to Kilgore, the Boone holdout, and the continual nagging injuries to Davis and Iupati. It's that story of syssyphus. You roll up the boulder to the top, and just when you almost get to the top and can roll it to the other side, darn thing slips from you and you have to do it all over again.