Cards week 3 coaches film analysis

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Oh man nice break down of the Iupati fail. The JMart fail (screen pass) was bad, but he was asked to block a DB on the perimeter. Not impossible, but not easy. The Iupati fail is a microcosm of why the 49ers don't run screen pass left/right to the RB. It wasn't a physical fail like JMart, it was a mental fail. Had Iupati tried to get to the edge and failed to make the block, fine. But it seemed he didn't even know he was supposed to be the lead blocker. Staley cut block his man, so that means Iupati is the lead blocker.

Their guards, and this includes Boone, simply are not good blocking in space. First, they are slow, so it's hard to get to the edge to block LB/DBs. Second, they have little awareness of who to block. Before anyone states that the guards are fine pulling for run plays, keep in mind that pulling for a run play allows the OL to explode out of a 3 point stance, similar to a speed sprinter. Blocking for a screen pass requires the OL to get that large frame going from a standing start since they are asked to fake the pass block.

In both those instances, the 49ers were set up for a very nice gain. In both instances the lead blocker failed. Guess what's going to happen the next time Roman wants to call a screen? He isn't going to call it. The 49ers called several (about 5) RB left/right screens last season and they all failed. Many of us ask, "why don't they throw screens?" This is why, on top of other reasons, such as how screens are more beneficial to pass first teams - which the 49ers were in this game.

I also have to post something about the officiating because it really was that bad in the game. The NFL rule on "illegal contact" is this, "Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives thes nap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact􀀃caused by a receiver. If the receiver attempts to evade the defender,the defender cannot initiate contact that redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way."

Bear in mind - both of these were on critical 3rd down plays for each team:


This is our only sack of Stanton


Reid does not "redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way." Illegal contact - 5 yard penalty automatic first down. Ari goes on to score


Same contact as Reid made - no penalty called: result 4th and 1 - we go for it and convert - still though - not consistent.

Here's what the NFL rulebook states on Offensive pass interference: "Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2 for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass."
Article 2 section G: "Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass."


You see P Willis holding his ground - which he's allowed to do with the TE running straight at him


The TE initiates contact - even if Willis initiated contact - he's allowed to under the rules because "a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact􀀃caused by a receiver."

The TE pushes off on Willis to gain separation and catch the ball. The result, pass interference on the offeense??? Nope! illegal contact on Willis declined and a 15 yard gain by Arizona - they went on to score.......

That kind of crap sucks big time!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Arizona came out either in a shell cover 4, or with heavy pressure on those plays to not allow us to take a shot as those things take time to develop. Remember, they have some ballers at corner and they were wanting us to try and take a shot deep to the endzone to create a turnover. There's not much you can do with 2nd and goal from the 21 that will work. You just don't have a lot of plays designed for that kind of yardage that will work when the defense is expecting it.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Arizona came out either in a shell cover 4, or with heavy pressure on those plays to not allow us to take a shot as those things take time to develop. Remember, they have some ballers at corner and they were wanting us to try and take a shot deep to the endzone to create a turnover. There's not much you can do with 2nd and goal from the 21 that will work. You just don't have a lot of plays designed for that kind of yardage that will work when the defense is expecting it.

so a read option was the better option?

Originally posted by Marvin49:

So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

No we just don't score in the 2nd half

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Arizona came out either in a shell cover 4, or with heavy pressure on those plays to not allow us to take a shot as those things take time to develop. Remember, they have some ballers at corner and they were wanting us to try and take a shot deep to the endzone to create a turnover. There's not much you can do with 2nd and goal from the 21 that will work. You just don't have a lot of plays designed for that kind of yardage that will work when the defense is expecting it.

so a read option was the better option?

When you look at the defense Arizona was playing, they lined up for heavy pressure up the middle, I'm not saying it was the perfect call, but I can understand why. You're backed way up with little to no chance of scoring a TD so you don't want to risk an INT and are trying to give yourself the best position for a FG in a close game. What would we be saying about Roman if he calls a pass to the endzone from 2nd and forever and it gets picked?? We'd say, "why didn't he run the ball".

romanexcuses

Originally posted by znk916:
romanexcuses

lol, really........ If you want to put in the time and money to watch the game film and show me how Roman consistently put our players in bad positions and made bad calls against predictable defense you are more than welcome.

I could say that everyone who blames Roman or Ck for everything are making everyotherplayerexcuses

Originally posted by thl408:
Oh man nice break down of the Iupati fail. The JMart fail (screen pass) was bad, but he was asked to block a DB on the perimeter. Not impossible, but not easy. The Iupati fail is a microcosm of why the 49ers don't run screen pass left/right to the RB. It wasn't a physical fail like JMart, it was a mental fail. Had Iupati tried to get to the edge and failed to make the block, fine. But it seemed he didn't even know he was supposed to be the lead blocker. Staley cut block his man, so that means Iupati is the lead blocker.

Their guards, and this includes Boone, simply are not good blocking in space. First, they are slow, so it's hard to get to the edge to block LB/DBs. Second, they have little awareness of who to block. Before anyone states that the guards are fine pulling for run plays, keep in mind that pulling for a run play allows the OL to explode out of a 3 point stance, similar to a speed sprinter. Blocking for a screen pass requires the OL to get that large frame going from a standing start since they are asked to fake the pass block.

In both those instances, the 49ers were set up for a very nice gain. In both instances the lead blocker failed. Guess what's going to happen the next time Roman wants to call a screen? He isn't going to call it. The 49ers called several (about 5) RB left/right screens last season and they all failed. Many of us ask, "why don't they throw screens?" This is why, on top of other reasons, such as how screens are more beneficial to pass first teams - which the 49ers were in this game.

This just kills me. The mental f**king errors stalling drives. I'd expect this from Big Soft, but Iupati going full retard is just ridiculous. Hopefully more time is needed to get back to form, but we can't be stacking up L's because of missed assignments like this.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Arizona came out either in a shell cover 4, or with heavy pressure on those plays to not allow us to take a shot as those things take time to develop. Remember, they have some ballers at corner and they were wanting us to try and take a shot deep to the endzone to create a turnover. There's not much you can do with 2nd and goal from the 21 that will work. You just don't have a lot of plays designed for that kind of yardage that will work when the defense is expecting it.

so a read option was the better option?

When you look at the defense Arizona was playing, they lined up for heavy pressure up the middle, I'm not saying it was the perfect call, but I can understand why. You're backed way up with little to no chance of scoring a TD so you don't want to risk an INT and are trying to give yourself the best position for a FG in a close game. What would we be saying about Roman if he calls a pass to the endzone from 2nd and forever and it gets picked?? We'd say, "why didn't he run the ball".

I've read some posters wonder why the 49ers only gave Gore/Hyde 9 total carries? I've also read some of the same (I think) posters say that Roman never sticks to what works, which I agree is one of his flaws in some games. The 49ers were passing the ball around and it was working. Had they ran the ball into the teeth of one of the best run defenses in the league and got stuffed, pretty sure some here would say "why didn't they stick with what was working (passing the ball)".

I thought the 49ers could have attacked the edges with swing passes to Ellington/Hyde. We saw two great chances blown by shoddy blocking on screen plays. Forget the screen plays, the ARI CBs lined up wide near the sidelines were manned up, the LBs in the middle were zoned. Get Ellington in space versus a LB in the flats to start widening the middle of the field defenders who were so worried with Kap's scrambling.

On defense, I thought Fangio did well to increase the frequency of blitzes. He should have forced the issue and never allow Stanton to sit comfortable in the pocket. Force the inexperienced QB to make quick decisions. It would put pressure on the DBs to cover with little underneath help, but not putting pressure on the QB also puts pressure on the DBs to cover for 4-5 seconds which is nearly impossible with the quality of the ARI WRs.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
So......Roman isn't completely incompetent?

Madness.

I still think calling a read option play (3rd and long) or on (2nd and long?) was dumb. The TV kept saying 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and GOAL but really we needed a first down. and we didnt take 1 shot at the endzone.....

Arizona came out either in a shell cover 4, or with heavy pressure on those plays to not allow us to take a shot as those things take time to develop. Remember, they have some ballers at corner and they were wanting us to try and take a shot deep to the endzone to create a turnover. There's not much you can do with 2nd and goal from the 21 that will work. You just don't have a lot of plays designed for that kind of yardage that will work when the defense is expecting it.

so a read option was the better option?

When you look at the defense Arizona was playing, they lined up for heavy pressure up the middle, I'm not saying it was the perfect call, but I can understand why. You're backed way up with little to no chance of scoring a TD so you don't want to risk an INT and are trying to give yourself the best position for a FG in a close game. What would we be saying about Roman if he calls a pass to the endzone from 2nd and forever and it gets picked?? We'd say, "why didn't he run the ball".

I've read some posters wonder why the 49ers only gave Gore/Hyde 9 total carries? I've also read some of the same (I think) posters say that Roman never sticks to what works, which I agree is one of his flaws in some games. The 49ers were passing the ball around and it was working. Had they ran the ball into the teeth of one of the best run defenses in the league and got stuffed, pretty sure some here would say "why didn't they stick with what was working (passing the ball)".

I thought the 49ers could have attacked the edges with swing passes to Ellington/Hyde. We saw two great chances blown by shoddy blocking on screen plays. Forget the screen plays, the ARI CBs lined up wide near the sidelines were manned up, the LBs in the middle were zoned. Get Ellington in space versus a LB in the flats to start widening the middle of the field defenders who were so worried with Kap's scrambling.

On defense, I thought Fangio did well to increase the frequency of blitzes. He should have forced the issue and never allow Stanton to sit comfortable in the pocket. Force the inexperienced QB to make quick decisions. It would put pressure on the DBs to cover with little underneath help, but not putting pressure on the QB also puts pressure on the DBs to cover for 4-5 seconds which is nearly impossible with the quality of the ARI WRs.

completely agree with you.

I feel like some people are thinking that we're trying to make a defense for Roman. I know I'm not and I don't think Thl is either. What we're trying to point out through film analysis - is that the players are just as culpable and have to execute calls that are good calls at the right time against the right defense. I don't think Greg Roman is the greatest coordinator that has ever been or that he's the best in the league.

I'm from the perspective that it seems like everyone wants to blindly throw everything at the feet of Roman which would ignore a myriad of other causations to the problem.

Could Roman have made some better calls? Absolutely, and he should've. Could Fangio have made some better calls to knock Arizona off it's game? Sure.
Did Roman make some great calls to set us up for success - yes. Did Fangio make some great calls to neutralize what Arizona wanted to do -absolutely.

For us, the key is trying to find out why things worked or didn't work. Was it a bad call or was it a blown assignment? Then go from there.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I also have to post something about the officiating because it really was that bad in the game. The NFL rule on "illegal contact" is this, "Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives thes nap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact􀀃caused by a receiver. If the receiver attempts to evade the defender,the defender cannot initiate contact that redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way."

Bear in mind - both of these were on critical 3rd down plays for each team:


This is our only sack of Stanton


Reid does not "redirects, restricts, or impedes the receiver in any way." Illegal contact - 5 yard penalty automatic first down. Ari goes on to score


Same contact as Reid made - no penalty called: result 4th and 1 - we go for it and convert - still though - not consistent.

Here's what the NFL rulebook states on Offensive pass interference: "Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. See Article 2 for prohibited acts while the ball is in the air and Article 4 for prohibited acts prior to the pass."
Article 2 section G: "Initiating contact with an opponent by shoving or pushing off, thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass."


You see P Willis holding his ground - which he's allowed to do with the TE running straight at him


The TE initiates contact - even if Willis initiated contact - he's allowed to under the rules because "a defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact􀀃caused by a receiver."

The TE pushes off on Willis to gain separation and catch the ball. The result, pass interference on the offeense??? Nope! illegal contact on Willis declined and a 15 yard gain by Arizona - they went on to score.......

That kind of crap sucks big time!

Bubububb conspiracy theory! Don't blame the refs!

They either need to hire more referees, or coaches should be allowed to challenge penalties in which case the head officiator in NY is called to make a verdict. Same rules apply. The call must be blatantly wrong in order to be overturned. These can be the same challenges that coaches use for each half. Same rules apply. If the call on the field stands, team loses a time out. This allows the coaches the opportunity to decide which penalties affect them the most.

Referees are humans too and make mistakes. These mistakes can cost teams games. Coaches should be allowed to challenge these calls. This isn't basketball with 10 players on a small court with action only happening in a confined area.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
Bubububb conspiracy theory! Don't blame the refs!

They either need to hire more referees, or coaches should be allowed to challenge penalties in which case the head officiator in NY is called to make a verdict. Same rules apply. The call must be blatantly wrong in order to be overturned. These can be the same challenges that coaches use for each half. Same rules apply. If the call on the field stands, team loses a time out. This allows the coaches the opportunity to decide which penalties affect them the most.

Referees are humans too and make mistakes. These mistakes can cost teams games. Coaches should be allowed to challenge these calls. This isn't basketball with 10 players on a small court with action only happening in a confined area.

agreed, I'm not saying ref's won't make mistakes or that it's a conspiracy theory, but, more like Boldin - this crap is costing us games and there needs to be some accountability.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

completely agree with you.

I feel like some people are thinking that we're trying to make a defense for Roman. I know I'm not and I don't think Thl is either. What we're trying to point out through film analysis - is that the players are just as culpable and have to execute calls that are good calls at the right time against the right defense. I don't think Greg Roman is the greatest coordinator that has ever been or that he's the best in the league.

I'm from the perspective that it seems like everyone wants to blindly throw everything at the feet of Roman which would ignore a myriad of other causations to the problem.

Could Roman have made some better calls? Absolutely, and he should've. Could Fangio have made some better calls to knock Arizona off it's game? Sure.
Did Roman make some great calls to set us up for success - yes. Did Fangio make some great calls to neutralize what Arizona wanted to do -absolutely.

For us, the key is trying to find out why things worked or didn't work. Was it a bad call or was it a blown assignment? Then go from there.

Totally agreed...roman take far too much s**t. He is not as bad as his critics would want you to believe. His offenses have consistently been top 5 run offense and from an efficiency stand point the pass game has been top 10 in ypa, qb rating and a top 5 in terms of limiting TOs.

Now having said all of that, these second half struggles are worrisome, but it's only been three games (two really, because the cowboy game was wrapped up in the first half). My hope is he notices how effective the uptembo spread short game was and blends that with our traditional ground game(I think OL with have to get healthy for this).