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Offensive Line Assessment

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  • Phil
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,720
Need something to happen or our passing game is junked and that cant happen. All Kap is left with are quick one read passes...no time in teh pocket to go through progressions and take advantage of our beast WR corps. This also stunts Kaps growth a s a pocket passer. We need to fix the O-line issues before seasons start.
  • Phil
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,720
If this means carting millions of dollars Boone's way so be it.
  • Phil
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,720
Better than carting Kap off the field.
We need Boone!
[ Edited by SnakePlissken on Aug 24, 2014 at 4:40 PM ]
Originally posted by Phil:
If this means carting millions of dollars Boone's way so be it.


Vernon Davis ended his holdout because he was smart enough to realize our front office wouldn't capitulate.

If we reward Boone, get ready for half a dozen other players to do the same. Then we are truly in trouble. One player is not worth more than the well-being of the team.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
We need Boone!

Except the right side of the line was good. All-Pro mike Iupati was the problem today. Even Snyder was better in pass pro.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Except the right side of the line was good. All-Pro mike Iupati was the problem today. Even Snyder was better in pass pro.

Wouldn't it help to have Boone and Davis on the right side manned up then having Staley and Iupati manned up?

If you have Boone on that right side you can slide protections to the left side or Kilgore can get push on the 3 tec off the snap. They put the left side on an island today and it was a massive failure. The question is can you trust the Looney and Davis when you slide protections to the left. I will say that the coaching staff deliberately put Iupati on an island. I honestly didn't see a single snap where it was Kilgore sole assignment to help Iupati. I mean Iupati pushed his man into the A gaps and Kilgore would assist with some push but it never looked like Kilgore was solely assigned to help him in pass pro.

edit: in the last drive of the first team they slid protection over to Iupati twice after he completed whiffed on a run block the first play of the drive. It should be noted that he greatly improved during that drive and manned Liuget 3 times.
[ Edited by eonblue on Aug 24, 2014 at 6:55 PM ]
The final grade for Iupati today

Iupati and Looney
(short version: Iupati= , Looney= )



1st DRIVE



1st Play: Zone Left out of an unbalanced front. We don't block zones well, and we don't cut or kick out to provide a cutback lane, which I just don't understand. Iupati zones The NT and MLB with Kilgore, and they do a good job. Iupati hands off the NT to Kilgor and picks up the MLB. Looney zones the DE and backside OLB with Vernon. He passes of the DE to Davis and Picks up the OLB. Both guards are good on this one, but Martin gets beat badly, which dooms a poorly-schemed run play.



2nd Play: 5 Step Drop. Looney has no one and no one needs help, so he just gets big and takes up space. Iupati does a good job keeping the DT in front of him and stopping his momentum (Make note of this, because you might not read that sentence again today.)



3rd Play: 7 step drop (in gun). Looney's guy stunts away as the looper in a T/T stunt, and he has no one, so he shadows Martin. He probably should have slid left to help Kilgore, since hi man looped inside, and there was no threat outside of Martins guy to the right. Iupati buries his head in the DT angling into Kilgore and never even sees the DT looping behind. The looping DT comes right behind Iupati and flushes Kap out of the pocket. Bad communication here, and bad awareness by Iupati.



4th Play: 7 step drop. Iupati picks up the blitzing LB, and shoves him across two gaps (all the way to Looney), then inexplicably chases him around the front of the pocket (like Bykowski's dumb ass did last week). If he stays home, he can help Hyde with the DT who ends up wrecking the pocket. Looney picks up the blitzing LB that Iupati sent him, but gets shoved on his can. It doesn't matter because the shove killed the LB's momentum, and Kap was already gone. Poor setup by Looney (I think he was surprised), and stupid move by Iupati. It's his second poor awareness play in three pass protection opportunities.



5th Play: Counter (?) left. I add the (?) because they block it like counter, but Hyde always bounces in place, instead of taking the counter jab step. Iupati iso pulls right, inside of VMac's kick out, and he wrecks the LB. That's what he does best. Looney doesn't have a down lineman on his down block track, so he needs to pick up the MLB. His track is too flat, and he can't turn upfield in time to get him. MLB makes the tackle. This one probably gets for 5-6 if he makes that block, but it's a tough assignment from his initial angle.



6th Play: 7 step drop. Looney Has no immediate threat, and he slides out to help Martin, who probably doesn't need it, but Looney gets his licks in anyway (still playing nasty). Iupati gets worked so quickly to the outside that the DT almost beats Kap to his 7th step. His technique is awful. He stood right up out of his stance, and he didn't even kick back once. It was a slow, clumsy effort, and he gets Kap kersmashed.



7th Play: 7 step drop (we're doing A LOT of these today). Looney has no threat and minds his gap w/head on a swivel. Iupati stones his DT. Staley gets used to the inside. It's possible that he was counting on Iupati setting deeper, so he'd have less space on the inside (Iupati is pretty shallow her, but that's just because he kicked his guy's ass for once), but I'm pretty sure Staley just got put on skates by the bull rush, and that exposed a ton of space to his inside.



8th Play: Gap scheme dive off guard. Terrible push. No movement, even from the double teams. Kap called it when he said the OL needed to be more aggressive. Looney doubles DT with Martin for no movement. Iupati doubles NT with Kilgore for about one foot of movement. Both doubles look split (OL didn't get their hips together), which is a technical error, which greatly decreases the downfield force of their combined push. Weak sauce.



9th play: 3 step drop (FINALLY). Looney hits the blitzing S hard enough to make him drop into an improvised zone, then he helps Kilgore. Iupati is good at this pass blocking, because he doesn't really have to move his feet much. He neutralizes the DT, with no penetration.



10th Play: Zone right (we FINALLY cut block on a zone play, for the first time in the preseason). SD is spread so wide that I can't tell who is zoning w/whom, but Iupati runs the DT down the line, and Looney washes his LB completely past the play. Because Staley gets a great cut, there is a HUGE seam between Staley and Iupati, but Hyde misses it and runs right into the line.



11th Play: 3 step drop. Looney takes over Kilgore's NT, so Kilgore slides to help Iupati, who is just starting to lose inside leverage on the DT. Great awareness and teamwork, but it's not good that Iupati lost the inside so quickly. He caught the DT instead of punching him. He's pretty bad when he is not the aggressor.



12th Play: 7 step drop (in gun). SD does a T/T, but it doesn't matter. Iupati gets beaten inside instantly by the angle rusher in the T/T, so the looper doesn't matter. Once again, Iupati's footwork is terrible. He's setting up for a 7 step drop like he should for a 3 step drop every time. This is correctible, but it should have been corrected by now. This is embarrassing. Looney's guy is the looping DT going away, so he has no immediate responsibility.



13th play: Draw middle. Iupati's pass fake is ugly but effective enough, and he blocks the DT out of the play. Snyder is in for Looney.



14th play: 3 step drop. Iupati slides inside to help Kilgore with the NT, and they stop him cold.



15th play: Zone read (give). This play was going nowhere, but Iupati getting spun around and beat inside by a guy who lined up a man-and-a-half outside of him results in a 5 yard loss.



16th play: 5 step drop. Iupati gets a good initial punch, passes his DT off inside to Kilgore, then slides outside to Staley, who doesn't really need the help.



17th play: 5 step drop (gun). Iupati gets beat immediately to the inside, but Kilgoe picks the DT up. Iupati then slides out late to help Staley, who is starting to lose inside leverage.



18th play: 3 step drop. Iupati stones the DT. Again, 3 step drop is the pass blocking he's best at.



19th play: 7 step PA pass. There's no run fake from the OL, so this is still deep dropback pass pro. Iupati does fine though, because the DT decides to try to bulrush him (bad idea), instead of trying get around him with speed and quickness (good idea). Iupati wins decidedly.



20th play: Draw. Once again, Iupati's ugly pass fake is just enough to influence his DT, and he walls him out of the play. Side note: Hyde is fun to watch.



21st play: 3 step (gun). Iupati Slides out to the DT and washes him past the pocket.



22nd play: Trap left (Snyder pulling kick out). Iupati releases upfield and engulfes the MLB. This trap is set up perfectly, except LMJ runs outside of the kick out block, ruining the hole that was opened for him. This was an easy 5 yard gain that could have gone for a lot more.



23rd play: 5 step drop (gun). Iupati picks up the looping DE on a T/E stunt! This is the first time he picks up a stunting lineman today, and Kap miraculously has time to throw! Weird…





So, Iupati was off today. This was the first time we did a lot of 7 step drops, and he was exposed terribly. He needs to kick back at least once before he sets, just to form a pocket, and he didn't do that at all today. He didn't get a lot of drive in the run game, but he did a good job of engaging LBs on the 2nd level. He was much better on 3 step drops, but he still got beat inside a couple times, which is terrible in the quick game.



Looney looked pretty good. He also didn't generate much push in the run game, but he had great feet on zones and pass pro. He picked up stunts well, and he wasn't challenged often by the base 4 in pass pro.



Since both guards struggled to get movement in the drive blocks, I'm willing to consider that camp legs or bad turf might have been part of the problem, but there are some basic things that you need from on offensive line that wants to control a game, and getting push from individual blocks is one of those.
Originally posted by AmpLee:
No way I'd give Iupati a big contract at this point.

To a veteran, all-pro' LG after a preseason game?

Preseason.
[ Edited by NinerSickness on Aug 25, 2014 at 12:30 AM ]

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Iupati and Looney
(short version: Iupati= , Looney= )

So, Iupati was off today. This was the first time we did a lot of 7 step drops, and he was exposed terribly. He needs to kick back at least once before he sets, just to form a pocket, and he didn't do that at all today. He didn't get a lot of drive in the run game, but he did a good job of engaging LBs on the 2nd level. He was much better on 3 step drops, but he still got beat inside a couple times, which is terrible in the quick game.

Looney looked pretty good. He also didn't generate much push in the run game, but he had great feet on zones and pass pro. He picked up stunts well, and he wasn't challenged often by the base 4 in pass pro.

Since both guards struggled to get movement in the drive blocks, I'm willing to consider that camp legs or bad turf might have been part of the problem, but there are some basic things that you need from on offensive line that wants to control a game, and getting push from individual blocks is one of those.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. Now we probably know why Looney got pulled before anyone else. Dude was doing his job and coaches saw what they needed to see.

I'm convinced Iupati is simply not healthy. He's had injuries to his feet, ankles, knee, shoulder, you name it. It might be piling up on him. He dropped off quite a bit last year after a stellar 2012. Yesterday was possibly the worst I've seen him play. I'm just glad it was pre-season and he's got a few weeks to sort out the kinks.
All will be corrected before week 1. Not worried at all. I believe!
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Thanks for the detailed breakdown. Now we probably know why Looney got pulled before anyone else. Dude was doing his job and coaches saw what they needed to see.

I'm convinced Iupati is simply not healthy. He's had injuries to his feet, ankles, knee, shoulder, you name it. It might be piling up on him. He dropped off quite a bit last year after a stellar 2012. Yesterday was possibly the worst I've seen him play. I'm just glad it was pre-season and he's got a few weeks to sort out the kinks.

I know man. He absolutely dominated Ngata in the SB. Now he's getting dominated by a guy that was on the verge of being a bust before the season started.
BAD.
THE MARCUS MARTIN REPORT - IOL - #66



1st Quarter

No action
==========

2nd Quarter

Marcus comes in to play C at the 3:50 mark of the 2nd Q.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
play 1 - 21 personnel - reverse handoff to Ellington.. MM engages the NT, and no trouble keeping him at bay. Task was rather easy.

play 2 - 11 personnel - inside run for LMJ.. MM is uncovered, hits 2nd level and keeps an ILB well away.

play 3 - 11 personnel - quick 3 step pass.. MM uncovered, stays free and helps LG with RDT, though no help was really needed.

play 4 - 11 personnel - inside run LMJ.. LDT is shaded on MM.. MM engages to open his side of the lane, and then moves off to 2nd level LB block well.

play 5 - 11 personnel - 7 step QB drop.. 2 RDL pretty well nosed up on MM.. MM has no trouble keeping the RDT away from any penetration.
(Staley sure was beaten around his outside shoulder by the RE though)

play 6 - 11 personnel - quick 3 step pass.. LDT nosed up on MM... MM turns to engage LDT, but the LDT is stunting outward, and he can't get him.. MM then misses the inside stunting LE, but aa good cut block from LMJ makes all good.. Had LMJ not made that cut, the pass could have been affected by a nasty QB hit.

play 7 - 11 personnel - quick 3 step pass.. LDT nosed up on MM.. MM and RG have no trouble keeping LDT away, and MM even shows alertness towards the LG action (and open gap in between).

play 8 - 11 personnel - inside run LMJ.. RDT pretty much nosed up on MM.. MM engages RDT. Stalemated, but he does just enough to keep the RDT away.

play 9 - 11 personnel - quick 3 step pass.. 2 DL shaded each side of MM.. MM and RG have no trouble keeping LDT away..

play 10 - 11 personnel - quick 3 step pass... LMJ lines up wide to right, empty backfield.. 2 DL split wide of MM.. MM stays free in zone and protects his empty gaps alertly.

play 11 - 22 personnel (with Vance lined up as an extra RB and Cleveland lined up at TE, lol).. quick 3 step pass.. MM was and stays slightly uncovered.. MM provides help to his RG vs LE.. LMJ cuts the incoming OLB enough to keep a batted pass possibility from happening. TD !!!!

END OF 2nd QUARTER

the 2nd HALF to be continued....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* extra thoughts on : < Daniel Kilgore >


1st drive: in all 3 snaps, his blocks were decent.
2nd drive: in all 3 snaps, his blocks were decent.
3rd drive: in 7 snaps, he was fine again.. not looking like a HOF-er, but effective enough as a starter.
4th drive: 1 play, good block on the DT, moved him off his spot
cont. thru 2nd Q
10 more snaps, and not 1 negative grade can I apply to Kilgore.
5th drive: ( Gabbert in ) 4 more plays.. Kilgore was fine in them.

Overall, a good and solid showing for Kilgore. He doesn't wow us with devastating run blocks, but he is effective in his role at C, and looks like he belongs as a starter. He needs to drive through his run blocks more... but his mentality is violent and promising. Pretty good pass pro anchor.


Likely to finish today or tomorrow. Discovered an opossum at 2 a.m. in my bedroom cabinet! Chaos ensued... sleep deprived, is I.
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