preseason game 2: winners & losers

winners: ellington--game speed
mccray--game speed and aggression
seymore--game speed and aggression


losers: backup qb--it was all doubt inducing
purcell--in no way is he a future starter, or a steady fill-in. we need a big sloppy who can do a few things well.
martin--just an ok performance by a guy who looked mad-rookieish. slow feet; legs move like a fat chicks. halfway aggressive on some plays, buy totally passive on others. looked more like sherman klump than a runaway beer truck. green rookie. hopefully he learns what hi-rev means soon.

Both Martin's had a solid performance held their ground compared to Kilgore who just scares me as a OL almost got Kap killed but run blocking is truly his weakness
Seymore had mix results almost got Qb Johnson killed on a few plays but ok
Skov & Thomas solid performances
Wilhoite had good plays then bad overall ok
Borland this kid is scary on passing downs he looks like he chasing ghosts
Dial & Tank solid again
Acker & Dontae Johnson had solid performances

dontae johnson had a solid performance? he looked lost and got roasted on that deep pass

winner= absofreakinlutely nobody!!!!!!

losers= anyone who suited up and the poor fans who had to endure that utter poopy performance in person.

O-line: The entire O-line was pretty solid the whole game. More importantly, the players who will likely be on the team all played pretty well.
Kilgore: Very solid. Was able to anchor better in this game. He's a hard nosed overachiever. He has had a three year head start on Marcus Martin.
Marcus Martin: This guy is going to be great for us. GREAT. He can anchor, he has some power. He is awesome blocking on the second level. He is extremely good at knocking a guy on a double team, and then bursting into a linebacker on the second level and then staying with that block. I love the way he assists his guards in pass pro. He is just a natural center, and will be fantastic for us for many years. Very impressive for a guy who has only had a week of practice.
He stepped on our quarterbacks a couple of times. He is so quick out of his stance that he can't help it. It's a shame he got such a late start in camp. If not for the late start, I think he easily wins the starting job. It's going to be tough for him to win it at this point because Kilgore is solid, and has years of experience.
Staley: He is in form. Took care of DeMarcus Ware.
Iupati: He was consistent today.
Looney: I am warming up to Looney. He is becoming a very solid player. Very strong upper body, which allows him to anchor. He is getting better with experience, which is a good sign.
J Martin: He was good overall, but lacks strength. Can't anchor against a stronger opponent. Still glad that we have him.

RB's
Gore: Showed why he is not losing his starting job to a rookie. Even a fantastic one.
Hyde: Has very good vision. Uses the whole field when he runs.
I am not impressed with our other running backs. Neither of them have vision or instincts for the position.

QB's
Not talking about them. They have their own personal gigantic threads.

WR's
Ellington: A very good player. Gabbert only seemed to find success while throwing to Ellington.
Crabs, Johnson and Lloyd mishandled a few catchable balls; a little disconcerting.

TE's
McDonald: We are using him a lot more like an H-back. He made some nice catches.
Green: For a second I thought he was Vernon Davis. He sure looks similar, but plays more like a poor mans Delanie Walker.


D-line
Carradine: He was doubled a lot today. Which was frustrating to watch. When he is single blocked he can dominate his man. He is still raw at the 3-4 end spot. Needs to learn to wrap a quarterback high so he can't throw the ball away; of course, if he hits him high the officials probably throw a flag.
Dial: Still good. He is good against the run. He is lacking as a pass rusher however. He is beginning to show why he was a 5th round pick. A good player, but doesn't really have pro-bowl type of upside.
Fangio has a devotion to his assignment based football, which can make it difficult to rush the passer sometimes.

OLB
Aldon was kept in check during the brief amount of time he played today. Clady is a very good tackle.
Lemonier applied some pressure at different times.
Lynch was able to show some ability, both as a pass rush and run defender. Not bad for a guy with only a week of practice.

MLB
Wilhoite was solid today. I don't dislike him. I really like Wilhoite. However, he has some limitations. He is not that big or powerful, and his instincts are not top shelf against the run. He had a bad penalty and missed some plays today.
Borland: I'm going to continue to talk up this guy. He has such a naturally refined understanding of the game. He might have had a blown assignment on a coverage, but I don't see why he should be covering a deep post pattern in the middle of the field. I can't see how that is on him.
Anyway, he once again showed very impressive ability. He can shed blockers easily. He EXPLODES to the point and makes plays, whether it be a tackle or whether it be delivering a shot to a blocker, stuffing the hole.
His most impressive play of the day was not a tackle. It was when he blew up a TE, pushing him backwards while sprinting left. This caused the running back to have to stretch the play all the way to the sideline where he was tackled by Ward I believe.
The thing with Borland many people might not understand, is that he is playing assignment football at a very high level. Even when he is not making the tackle, he is the one responsible for shutting down the play by delivering a shot to the blockers at the second level. This stuffs the play and allows other players to make the tackle and pick up the stats.
They let Wilhoite blitz today, but not Borland, even though Borland was a monster in college as a blitzer. I would love to see Fangio give him a chance at this, at the very least, just to impress the fans. Don't forget, Borland is not only low to the ground, but he is BIGGER than both Wilhoite and Moody. Borland delivers a punch to blockers that none of his competition are able to.
This guy is such an EXPLOSIVE athlete, it is mind boggling how people can think he is slow. He looks so fast on the field.
I know people will disagree with me, but trust me, when the coaches look at the film, they will see all the little things Borland does on the field and this will continue to be a tight competition for the starting job.
People thought he sucked in the first game, but then Fangio said it was a "tight competition," which surprised most people, but not me. Borland can PLAY.
I can't say enough good things about Borland.
Moody: He is a good athlete, but he is a fish out of water. He simply does not have the "it" factor to play middle linebacker effectively. He is a little undersized too.
Skov: Skov is not bad, but he showed some limitations today. There was a play that he completely whiffed on. The announcer blamed it on Lynch, which was partially true, but Skov should have made the quick read and filled that space and met the running back in the lane. Instead, he moved to the right, then back left, but didn't have the explosion to get there quick enough. The blocker got on him and the running back ran right past him.

CB
Johnson got beat on a perfectly placed ball. He didn't "give up" on the play like the announcer said. Boy it pisses me off when people in the stands say stuff like that.
Johnson was fighting with the receiver. Lost his balance to the right, and then the ball came down right into Cody Latimers hands. Latimer is probably the player we draft if Hyde was not available. We went with Hyde because he was the better player.
Anyway, I hope people aren't throwing Johnson under the bus because of that one play.
Besides that, overall our corners were not too bad.

S
Hopefully Bethea will be OK. Latimer knocked him out because Bethea didn't see him. We had two players knocked out in that game.
Spillman missed a tackle because the running back LOWERED HIS HELMET INTO HIM. That is supposed to be a PENALTY. The offensive player is not supposed to be allowed to lower their helmet like a battering ram straight into a defender in the open field.

The officiating in this game was so bad. The spots of the ball were horrible, whether in our favor or against us. The missed calls, the misunderstanding of the rules, the multiple times they flubbed up announcing the penalty.
There should have been another fumble on that play where they knocked out our receiver, that was clear possession and a fumble, it was also clear spearing. The rules of the NFL have become so paradoxical and confused, that I truly think the officials just make s**t up as they go along.

I am terrified about the officiating for the regular season. I don't have any idea of what to expect.

stop upstaging Marvin49...

I don't think we'll see the true depth and talent we have on DL until we hit regular season. I think our rotation will wreak havoc on other teams, especially later in games.

Originally posted by Dr_Bill_Walsh:
stop upstaging Marvin49...

keep that junk in the parking lot.

Gore and Hyde looked good. Tank looked solid. Ellington looks fast and I think will be a solid upgrade in the return game.

Gabbert and the backup QB situation is horrible. Like maybe the worst in the league type bad. CB depth is suspect.

Phil needs to pitch a tent in the new stadium and just keep kicking. All day.

Brian, Nice effort and good post.

I agree Marcus Martin got a late start to camp so he's just getting started. He will get better as we get him into better shape and tighten him up. It takes time to get into game shape but on top of it he still needs to get stronger and tighten up (what rookie doesn't though). That being said he's probably already stronger than Kilgore who has had 3 years to get stronger and he seems to be about the same as when he was a rookie. He will be one of the smaller/quicker (still not that quick) centers but he needed to get much stronger to help anchor and get push in the run game. He is signed for 4 years like an average of like 1.2 million so at worst he is a solid paid backup who can play C, G, or extra tackle. Basically like Snyder but better and 6 years younger.

It's looking like Borland will be our 3rd ILB of the future. All have their limitations but it will be interesting to see if Wilhoite is signed after this year to be the #4. I think Wilhoite takes over now but Borland in the future. Moody is quicker but undersized, Skov is limited like Borland especially in the speed department. That doesn't mean they can't close on a RB in a hurry it's more referring to coverage speed in the open field. I'm not sure it matters who we pick for the 4th ILB spot after Willis, Wilhoite and Borland bcause the winner of Moody/Skov is likely gone when Bowman gets back anyways.

Edit: I put this in the game thread but it's relevant here too..
We haven't had football in so long that's why people break down every snap of training camp like it's life or death. Make a bad play oh you're cut, make a good play you're a hall of famer. Same with pre-season we are itching for football so much we over-analyze everything. We can fight about the number 3/4 QB, number 6 CB, number 8 OL but when it comes regular season it pretty much doesn't matter. Minus ST these guys won't get any playing time really if we are lucky. We are fighting over guys who will be inactive on game days most likely. It's just what fans do and it's our right. Minus backup QB which is dragging the entire 2nd/3rd string units down I'm not worried since our #1 O looks fine and our #1 D which didn't have 1/3 of our starters played decent too. If you want to worry about backup QB, Kilgore at C, RG and the ILB next to Willis but I wouldn't get too stressed over the 6th CB, 3rd/4th QB, 8th OL, etc.

Did Loyd gator arm another ball? The pass from Kap?

Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
Did Loyd gator arm another ball? The pass from Kap?

My first thougth on that pass to . But I don't think he "ducked" this time and I'm pretty sure that pass was intended for the reciever behind him (can't recall who that was). .

my boy ellington!

Nice write up. I'm debating whether I should rewatche the game or not. Considering the score, yech!

Originally posted by BrianGO:
O-line: The entire O-line was pretty solid the whole game. More importantly, the players who will likely be on the team all played pretty well.
Kilgore: Very solid. Was able to anchor better in this game. He's a hard nosed overachiever. He has had a three year head start on Marcus Martin.
Marcus Martin: This guy is going to be great for us. GREAT. He can anchor, he has some power. He is awesome blocking on the second level. He is extremely good at knocking a guy on a double team, and then bursting into a linebacker on the second level and then staying with that block. I love the way he assists his guards in pass pro. He is just a natural center, and will be fantastic for us for many years. Very impressive for a guy who has only had a week of practice.
He stepped on our quarterbacks a couple of times. He is so quick out of his stance that he can't help it. It's a shame he got such a late start in camp. If not for the late start, I think he easily wins the starting job. It's going to be tough for him to win it at this point because Kilgore is solid, and has years of experience.
Staley: He is in form. Took care of DeMarcus Ware.
Iupati: He was consistent today.
Looney: I am warming up to Looney. He is becoming a very solid player. Very strong upper body, which allows him to anchor. He is getting better with experience, which is a good sign.
J Martin: He was good overall, but lacks strength. Can't anchor against a stronger opponent. Still glad that we have him.

RB's
Gore: Showed why he is not losing his starting job to a rookie. Even a fantastic one.
Hyde: Has very good vision. Uses the whole field when he runs.
I am not impressed with our other running backs. Neither of them have vision or instincts for the position.

QB's
Not talking about them. They have their own personal gigantic threads.

WR's
Ellington: A very good player. Gabbert only seemed to find success while throwing to Ellington.
Crabs, Johnson and Lloyd mishandled a few catchable balls; a little disconcerting.

TE's
McDonald: We are using him a lot more like an H-back. He made some nice catches.
Green: For a second I thought he was Vernon Davis. He sure looks similar, but plays more like a poor mans Delanie Walker.


D-line
Carradine: He was doubled a lot today. Which was frustrating to watch. When he is single blocked he can dominate his man. He is still raw at the 3-4 end spot. Needs to learn to wrap a quarterback high so he can't throw the ball away; of course, if he hits him high the officials probably throw a flag.
Dial: Still good. He is good against the run. He is lacking as a pass rusher however. He is beginning to show why he was a 5th round pick. A good player, but doesn't really have pro-bowl type of upside.
Fangio has a devotion to his assignment based football, which can make it difficult to rush the passer sometimes.

OLB
Aldon was kept in check during the brief amount of time he played today. Clady is a very good tackle.
Lemonier applied some pressure at different times.
Lynch was able to show some ability, both as a pass rush and run defender. Not bad for a guy with only a week of practice.

MLB
Wilhoite was solid today. I don't dislike him. I really like Wilhoite. However, he has some limitations. He is not that big or powerful, and his instincts are not top shelf against the run. He had a bad penalty and missed some plays today.
Borland: I'm going to continue to talk up this guy. He has such a naturally refined understanding of the game. He might have had a blown assignment on a coverage, but I don't see why he should be covering a deep post pattern in the middle of the field. I can't see how that is on him.
Anyway, he once again showed very impressive ability. He can shed blockers easily. He EXPLODES to the point and makes plays, whether it be a tackle or whether it be delivering a shot to a blocker, stuffing the hole.
His most impressive play of the day was not a tackle. It was when he blew up a TE, pushing him backwards while sprinting left. This caused the running back to have to stretch the play all the way to the sideline where he was tackled by Ward I believe.
The thing with Borland many people might not understand, is that he is playing assignment football at a very high level. Even when he is not making the tackle, he is the one responsible for shutting down the play by delivering a shot to the blockers at the second level. This stuffs the play and allows other players to make the tackle and pick up the stats.
They let Wilhoite blitz today, but not Borland, even though Borland was a monster in college as a blitzer. I would love to see Fangio give him a chance at this, at the very least, just to impress the fans. Don't forget, Borland is not only low to the ground, but he is BIGGER than both Wilhoite and Moody. Borland delivers a punch to blockers that none of his competition are able to.
This guy is such an EXPLOSIVE athlete, it is mind boggling how people can think he is slow. He looks so fast on the field.
I know people will disagree with me, but trust me, when the coaches look at the film, they will see all the little things Borland does on the field and this will continue to be a tight competition for the starting job.
People thought he sucked in the first game, but then Fangio said it was a "tight competition," which surprised most people, but not me. Borland can PLAY.
I can't say enough good things about Borland.
Moody: He is a good athlete, but he is a fish out of water. He simply does not have the "it" factor to play middle linebacker effectively. He is a little undersized too.
Skov: Skov is not bad, but he showed some limitations today. There was a play that he completely whiffed on. The announcer blamed it on Lynch, which was partially true, but Skov should have made the quick read and filled that space and met the running back in the lane. Instead, he moved to the right, then back left, but didn't have the explosion to get there quick enough. The blocker got on him and the running back ran right past him.

CB
Johnson got beat on a perfectly placed ball. He didn't "give up" on the play like the announcer said. Boy it pisses me off when people in the stands say stuff like that.
Johnson was fighting with the receiver. Lost his balance to the right, and then the ball came down right into Cody Latimers hands. Latimer is probably the player we draft if Hyde was not available. We went with Hyde because he was the better player.
Anyway, I hope people aren't throwing Johnson under the bus because of that one play.
Besides that, overall our corners were not too bad.

S
Hopefully Bethea will be OK. Latimer knocked him out because Bethea didn't see him. We had two players knocked out in that game.
Spillman missed a tackle because the running back LOWERED HIS HELMET INTO HIM. That is supposed to be a PENALTY. The offensive player is not supposed to be allowed to lower their helmet like a battering ram straight into a defender in the open field.

The officiating in this game was so bad. The spots of the ball were horrible, whether in our favor or against us. The missed calls, the misunderstanding of the rules, the multiple times they flubbed up announcing the penalty.
There should have been another fumble on that play where they knocked out our receiver, that was clear possession and a fumble, it was also clear spearing. The rules of the NFL have become so paradoxical and confused, that I truly think the officials just make s**t up as they go along.

I am terrified about the officiating for the regular season. I don't have any idea of what to expect.

Nice post I agree with you strongly on Borland and Marcus Martin. Like what I see from Johnson and Acker, as well those guys are not scared to mix it up and look like strong tacklers. You left out Perrish Cox, who might just be coming into his own this year, been really impressed from I have seen from him in limited action. Not as high on Tank he's gets pushed back almost immediately a lot on running plays. Seems to have more quickness but not strength, as compared to Dial, who is better against the run. All in all you gave a real good assessment.

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
Did Loyd gator arm another ball? The pass from Kap?

My first thougth on that pass to . But I don't think he "ducked" this time and I'm pretty sure that pass was intended for the reciever behind him (can't recall who that was). .

The ball did not look like it was intended for Lloyd. But, Lloyd was not brought in for those traffic catches. His role will be to occupy over the top coverage to make Boldin and/or Crabtree more effective in mid range.

With the way Elington seems to be progressing.... my assessment may need to be amended with "Elingtion at ALL ranges".