10 Players Not To Forget/Underestimate

Corey Lemonier sucks... Jon Baldwin sucks... Johnathan Martin sucks, and he's soft.

How about Vance McDonald, Michael Wilhoite, Chris Borland (Special Teams DEMON).

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Corey Lemonier sucks... Jon Baldwin sucks... Johnathan Martin sucks, and he's soft.

How about Vance McDonald, Michael Wilhoite, Chris Borland (Special Teams DEMON).

what proof do you have that the lemon man sucks? you have not even seen martin in a niner uniform so how can you judge him? i hope you are not right about jon b, but if you are, no big deal

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Corey Lemonier sucks... Jon Baldwin sucks... Johnathan Martin sucks, and he's soft.

How about Vance McDonald, Michael Wilhoite, Chris Borland (Special Teams DEMON).

Jonathan may be soft and not good, whatsoever. Baldwin may be terrible. Corey.... let's calm down there a little, buddy. Although, they all may be awful in your book, but if you're gonna use the term "suck" then let's reserve that word for players like Michael Sam

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Corey Lemonier sucks... Jon Baldwin sucks... Johnathan Martin sucks, and he's soft.

How about Vance McDonald, Michael Wilhoite, Chris Borland (Special Teams DEMON).

Disp posted this in the Lemon thread. It is sorted based on Pass Rush Productivity (column on far right). He does not suck. Far from it, and this is as a rookie. The experience he gained when Aldon was in rehab is invaluable. Now he has a full offseason with an NFL regimen. He's gonna rock this season.

The reason I mentioned that he has a full NFL offseason program is because Lemon mentioned in an interview that leading up to the 2013 draft, he was more concerned with how he would perform at the underwear Olympics (combines). This year, it's all about football, not track and field stuff.

http://www.49ers.com/video/videos/Corey-Lemonier-Conversation-Rookie-Reflections-/1d8c6823-36a7-44cd-83ff-3b1c27fb41ba
@ 2:46

When I first saw someone post "Corey Lemonier sucks," I thought it was a joke. He not only DIDN'T suck, as thl408 shows above, but the reports I've read say that he's added muscle weight since last year and has even more burst. We'll see.

just like corey lemonier doesnt suck, advanced nfl stats dont say s**t either ooooooooooooooo dont tell me this guy is +18.41564231456456456456423198 last season, it really doesnt mean much. just watch a guy you can tell whther he can play or not.

Originally posted by crabman82:
just like corey lemonier doesnt suck, advanced nfl stats dont say s**t either ooooooooooooooo dont tell me this guy is +18.41564231456456456456423198 last season, it really doesnt mean much. just watch a guy you can tell whther he can play or not.

I'm not one to base an entire player evaluation on an arbitrary PFF rating, but they do give a general feel as to how the player performed, in a vacuum. It backs up what we all (well most of us) see. That Lemon played well as a rookie. I have a hard time watching and evaluating front7 play so it helps me to have it backed up by a PFF rating. Trust me, I didn't need the chart to know Lemon was good, but it helps support that notion without having to cut up a bunch of plays from last season. Player evaluations are difficult to show on film because of the amount of plays that need to be shown to tell the story.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just like corey lemonier doesnt suck, advanced nfl stats dont say s**t either ooooooooooooooo dont tell me this guy is +18.41564231456456456456423198 last season, it really doesnt mean much. just watch a guy you can tell whther he can play or not.

I'm not one to base an entire player evaluation on an arbitrary PFF rating, but they do give a general feel as to how the player performed, in a vacuum. It backs up what we all (well most of us) see. That Lemon played well as a rookie. I have a hard time watching and evaluating front7 play so it helps me to have it backed up by a PFF rating. Trust me, I didn't need the chart to know Lemon was good, but it helps support that notion without having to cut up a bunch of plays from last season. Player evaluations are difficult to show on film because of the amount of plays that need to be shown to tell the story.

i just question the validity of these advanced stats for football. who are these guys to say they know what every player on every teams job is on every play of an entire season? i've heard nfl pundits, players and coaches question the samething. you see it all the time fans pumping up their 3rd rated te according to PFF, then when their lt comes in at 68th all of a sudden PFF blows. i'm sure they try and give it an honest effort, i just think they're in over their head in terms of assuming they understand what every players responsibility is on ever play.

Y the hate for lemonhead?

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Corey Lemonier sucks... Jon Baldwin sucks... Johnathan Martin sucks, and he's soft.

How about Vance McDonald, Michael Wilhoite, Chris Borland (Special Teams DEMON).

This post lost all credibility after the first 3 words. Forget about Baldwin and Martin, but Lemonoir was a stud last year for a rookie in his opportunities... not sure what games this poster was watching.

I still dont think Martin or Baldwin make the roster this year, so replace the original list with Wilhoite and McDonald. If McDonald and Carrier both pop this year, we will be a capable passing team that can go 4 wide or 3 TE and still attack down the field.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just like corey lemonier doesnt suck, advanced nfl stats dont say s**t either ooooooooooooooo dont tell me this guy is +18.41564231456456456456423198 last season, it really doesnt mean much. just watch a guy you can tell whther he can play or not.

I'm not one to base an entire player evaluation on an arbitrary PFF rating, but they do give a general feel as to how the player performed, in a vacuum. It backs up what we all (well most of us) see. That Lemon played well as a rookie. I have a hard time watching and evaluating front7 play so it helps me to have it backed up by a PFF rating. Trust me, I didn't need the chart to know Lemon was good, but it helps support that notion without having to cut up a bunch of plays from last season. Player evaluations are difficult to show on film because of the amount of plays that need to be shown to tell the story.

i just question the validity of these advanced stats for football. who are these guys to say they know what every player on every teams job is on every play of an entire season? i've heard nfl pundits, players and coaches question the samething. you see it all the time fans pumping up their 3rd rated te according to PFF, then when their lt comes in at 68th all of a sudden PFF blows. i'm sure they try and give it an honest effort, i just think they're in over their head in terms of assuming they understand what every players responsibility is on ever play.

Agreed on the validity of the PFF ratings. I agree with you, without understanding the player assignment on a particular play, it's hard to assign a grade to that player. ABrooks is an example. There are times he is playing just to contain the QB within the pocket so that Aldon can work his way around the LT. Does Brooks get a negative grade because PFF thought it was supposed to be a pass rush and Brooks didn't get a pressure?

About the Lemon chart above, I don't look at that and say 'Lemon is the 12th best 3-4 OLB pass rusher'. I view it as 'He is doing a lot more right than wrong and had a positive impact on most of his plays'. Don't want to derail this thread too much. There is a PFF thread in NFL talk where their rating system was discussed.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just like corey lemonier doesnt suck, advanced nfl stats dont say s**t either ooooooooooooooo dont tell me this guy is +18.41564231456456456456423198 last season, it really doesnt mean much. just watch a guy you can tell whther he can play or not.

I'm not one to base an entire player evaluation on an arbitrary PFF rating, but they do give a general feel as to how the player performed, in a vacuum. It backs up what we all (well most of us) see. That Lemon played well as a rookie. I have a hard time watching and evaluating front7 play so it helps me to have it backed up by a PFF rating. Trust me, I didn't need the chart to know Lemon was good, but it helps support that notion without having to cut up a bunch of plays from last season. Player evaluations are difficult to show on film because of the amount of plays that need to be shown to tell the story.

i just question the validity of these advanced stats for football. who are these guys to say they know what every player on every teams job is on every play of an entire season? i've heard nfl pundits, players and coaches question the samething. you see it all the time fans pumping up their 3rd rated te according to PFF, then when their lt comes in at 68th all of a sudden PFF blows. i'm sure they try and give it an honest effort, i just think they're in over their head in terms of assuming they understand what every players responsibility is on ever play.

Agreed on the validity of the PFF ratings. I agree with you, without understanding the player assignment on a particular play, it's hard to assign a grade to that player. ABrooks is an example. There are times he is playing just to contain the QB within the pocket so that Aldon can work his way around the LT. Does Brooks get a negative grade because PFF thought it was supposed to be a pass rush and Brooks didn't get a pressure?

About the Lemon chart above, I don't look at that and say 'Lemon is the 12th best 3-4 OLB pass rusher'. I view it as 'He is doing a lot more right than wrong and had a positive impact on most of his plays'. Don't want to derail this thread too much. There is a PFF thread in NFL talk where their rating system was discussed.

cool i'll have to check that out sometime.

Originally posted by thl408:

About the Lemon chart above, I don't look at that and say 'Lemon is the 12th best 3-4 OLB pass rusher'. I view it as 'He is doing a lot more right than wrong and had a positive impact on most of his plays'. Don't want to derail this thread too much. There is a PFF thread in NFL talk where their rating system was discussed.

Great point and posters should keep this in mind, stats dont tell the whole story but they do add validity to an opinion or argument. The only negative from watching games of Lemonoir last year was that he has a tendency to get sucked up by bigger linemen he cant outmuscle, but again he is a rookie who is still learning to match his technique level with his athleticism level which is up there with the top DE/OLBs in that years draft.

Its gonna be fun to see the strides he makes in his second year.