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6 WRs to be kept

  • LVJay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,387
Originally posted by Phil:
lol....Ya, like to the Rams, where they really need a WR AND a nice overview of our offensive schemes. if we cut Lloyd and the Rams pick him up that's teh worst case scenario. Or Seattle but I don't see that happening. He'd end up on the Rams, KC or Carolina. Maybe even New England. I really want him on the team this season, especially if we do more 3-4 WR sets.

This right here!

The way injuries go in the NFL, we're gonna need extra WRs. He's as good as gone once (if) he's cut
Originally posted by thl408:
The difference between Lloyd and Osgood doesn't seem that large a margin. Salary shouldn't be a factor in determining who wins the roster spot. Unless I don't know of some other salary considerations. The best scenario I can think of is Morris gets better at gunner, making Osgood expendable. He and Spillman can hold down the two punt coverage gunner spots while also serving as secondary depth. This allows 1 extra roster spot (no Osgood) for a deep position they don't want to expose to the waiver wire.

This is a viable possibility for sure. I can't wait to see what happens...have a feeling if we keep Lloyd and drop someone like Osgood, it's going to signify what direction our passing game is evolving too.
Originally posted by LVJay:
Originally posted by Phil:
lol....Ya, like to the Rams, where they really need a WR AND a nice overview of our offensive schemes. if we cut Lloyd and the Rams pick him up that's teh worst case scenario. Or Seattle but I don't see that happening. He'd end up on the Rams, KC or Carolina. Maybe even New England. I really want him on the team this season, especially if we do more 3-4 WR sets.

This right here!

The way injuries go in the NFL, we're gonna need extra WRs. He's as good as gone once (if) he's cut
I for one would like Lloyd to make the team and I think he will. He is a redzone threat and always has been. Maybe between the 20's he's good but in the redzone is where it really counts. If he's cut, maybe he doesn't get picked up or he chooses to only go to a contender, but you can bet other teams will pursue him. Would hate him to get picked up by Seattle, NYG, AZ, STL, or someone we may see in the playoffs. Lloyd isn't a #1, #2, or maybe even a #3 but he is very dependable on the depth chart.

Think about it...as good as Seattles D is (and they are very good), can you really see them cover Crabs, Boldin, Johnson, Lloyd, and Davis on the field together on a 3rd and 5? Patton made some catches last season but not enough for me to trust him on critical downs just yet and a possible winning score. Ellington still needs to prove himself.
[ Edited by Baldie on Jul 23, 2014 at 7:58 AM ]
I like Quinton Patton, but if Jon Baldwin starts to show flashes in camp, I'd put him above Patton. Patton, Crabs and Stevie are the same type of receiver. If Baldwin shows his first round potential with a stable team and a top 10 QB for once in his career I think his upside will benefit us more. He'll be that big red zone target and the big burner we need to stretch the safeties.

If Jon Baldwin had Quinton Patton's heart and work ethic, he'd be a top receiver.

But it's all wishful thinking. If the FO believed Baldwin had it, they wouldn't have gotten Stevie.
  • Giedi
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  • Posts: 2,303
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well, I guess I am going to be disappointed then, because I think Baldwin still has a shot. As far as Osgood, once again we get into Coach H's glaring weakness...not knowing what he has on the roster. The one pass Osgood caught last yr was completely unexpected by everyone in the stadium. But he caught it ...but that was it IIRC. And this kid should have been getting some chances when we got up on some weaker teams by 20 pts or so. Put him in there. Find out what he has...or doesn't. But don't leave him untested an untried except on ST when we could very easily have found him a dozen or so balls last yr... once again, just like LMJ, we never tried him to see what he could do. Good as Coach H is, this is a misstep he continues to make...and it is maddening. KNOW YOUR TEAM. Jim Harbaugh just doesn't see it that way. I know this. If this were BW's team, he darn well would know what each and every guy could give us. But when JH doesn't even give guys a shot...eg, bailout passes to LMJ, or passes for Osgood, he may very well cut a guy who has terrific talent, but never got to show it based on coaching decisions. Coach doesn't have many flaws, but this is one.

Osgood is no spring chicken. I think the entire NFL is aware of what he has as a receiver. He's going into his 12th year. He does not fall into the same category as LaMichael James. A better argument could be made for using Patton once he was healthy, or using any of the backs not named Bruce Miller to catch passes. I definitely get your argument though.

We don't see the team practice so we have a real bad view of what the coaches think about each player.

Osgood vs Lloyd. The idea *may be* like the old John Taylor days where John was a special teams player *and a starter* he was specifically told by Walsh *not* to return kicks. Just catch it and down it -- because he was so valuable offensively. The loss in special teams field position was more than made up by his offensive yardage production.
Originally posted by Baldie:
[Lloyd] is a redzone threat and always has been.
He's 6-0, weighs 200 and had one season with more than 6 touchdowns in which he averaged 18.8 ypc in 11 seasons. Does that sound like a redzone threat to you?
[ Edited by zugschef on Jul 23, 2014 at 8:25 AM ]
Yeah i dont know where "Redzone threat Lloyd came from", but i dont ever remember seeing him dominate the redzone in any year or game ever. he is short, light, and old. He is the opposite of a red zone threat lol.

As for the WRs positions. I really want to see Crabtree and S. Johnson on the outsides with Boldin in the slot. I dont think any small slot CBs can cover Boldin when he is in the slot, or in motion, and because of his strength, i see him breaking a lot of tackles there as well.

We already have VD speed inside at TE, so i think S. Johnson should go wide as he has some speed (more than Boldin).

I am starting to think that we have so many average WRs that we realistically dont really have any.
I think the Lloyd "redzone threat" narrative began with a couple of reports that Kaepernick had found him in the endzone a number of times during drills in recent OTA's. That's it, for what it's worth.
Originally posted by Canadian9erfan:
Yeah i dont know where "Redzone threat Lloyd came from", but i dont ever remember seeing him dominate the redzone in any year or game ever. he is short, light, and old. He is the opposite of a red zone threat lol.

As for the WRs positions. I really want to see Crabtree and S. Johnson on the outsides with Boldin in the slot. I dont think any small slot CBs can cover Boldin when he is in the slot, or in motion, and because of his strength, i see him breaking a lot of tackles there as well.

We already have VD speed inside at TE, so i think S. Johnson should go wide as he has some speed (more than Boldin).

I am starting to think that we have so many average WRs that we realistically dont really have any.

"Short, light and old". That's a non-biased opinion. He's 6', 200. He can outjump any DB and still holds his high school high jump record at 7'2". Perhaps your memory needs a tweak. Here's a little video to refresh your memory. Take special note of the move he makes at 1:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3XbN3iNEs8
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I like Quinton Patton, but if Jon Baldwin starts to show flashes in camp, I'd put him above Patton. Patton, Crabs and Stevie are the same type of receiver. If Baldwin shows his first round potential with a stable team and a top 10 QB for once in his career I think his upside will benefit us more. He'll be that big red zone target and the big burner we need to stretch the safeties.

If Jon Baldwin had Quinton Patton's heart and work ethic, he'd be a top receiver.

But it's all wishful thinking. If the FO believed Baldwin had it, they wouldn't have gotten Stevie.

Agreed. I want to see a TON of balls coming his way this pre season so that he can be evaluated properly. Sadly, I doubt he gets that shot and if he does, it's going to be guys like Gabbert, Johnson, etc. throwing to him and not CK.
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,303
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
z4life, the thing so far that Baldwin is lacking is passes. Hey if he is good , bad or indifferent, we should know. Coach should know. But when you don't give a guy some passes in games when we get way up, how the heck do you really know? LMJ is another on backfield passes. How the heck does Coach know, when these guys haven't really gotten a fair shot? And it isn't like we were overloaded with WRs or backs out of the backfield this yr. For my money, Coach has to take this step...learn what his guys have...before he moves on up the ladder of great coaches. Playcalls, esp in close are another step he has to make.

As for Baldwin, give him a shot, and see if he fits. If not, ok. NOt knowing? Not so good.

Aside from HaRoman getting better. Some players don't fit the system and you don't know that sometimes till they actually practice and play on the team. Classic case - Dwaine Board didn't make the Pittsburg steeler 4-3 defense but he was great as an undersized DE for us in the 3-4. AJ Jenkins is doing better in KC which is more of a passing team than we are. The point is - the front office does its best to project players into the roles needed on our team but sometimes it just doesn't work out. Like the Martin bullying case. It wasn't the system that was the problem, it was more the player personalities. Deion didn't want to stay with us after the '94 superbowl in in part because of the business mentality of the 49ers didn't mesh well with his happy-go-lucky play attitude.

In the case of Baldwin, he doesn't have the quickness and speed of an ellington. He's more of a Dwight Clark size kind of possession receiver but without - again - that short area quickness and determination to get the ball. I think in Harbaugh's system, that outside Z reciever has to be fast and quick to break press coverage and the hands to fight for contested balls. In Baldwin case, I just don't think he fits in with what is needed there in Harbaugh's offensive system. For that reason, I don't think he makes the team.
I'll say this about Brandon lloyd - his highlight films contain some of the most spectacular circus catches you'll ever see on a football field. Unfortunately, there's also this:



Okay, on second thought, that was unfair. He's not the same player today that he was back then.
[ Edited by crake49 on Jul 23, 2014 at 10:30 AM ]
Crabs
Boldin
Stevie
Patton
Ellington
Osgood

Lloyd is a cut
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I like Quinton Patton, but if Jon Baldwin starts to show flashes in camp, I'd put him above Patton. Patton, Crabs and Stevie are the same type of receiver. If Baldwin shows his first round potential with a stable team and a top 10 QB for once in his career I think his upside will benefit us more. He'll be that big red zone target and the big burner we need to stretch the safeties.

If Jon Baldwin had Quinton Patton's heart and work ethic, he'd be a top receiver.

But it's all wishful thinking. If the FO believed Baldwin had it, they wouldn't have gotten Stevie.

I agree. I really want Baldwin to succeed because he brings an element that the WR corp lacks - immense size. Unfortunately, with that size he also brings a body that moves like molasses. He has zero to little explosion on the first step in and out of a cut. I don't know if he lacks technique, coaching, desire, or what. If he can just work on his burst, he can salvage his career. As of now, he's just a physical freak that took advantage of smaller, untrained college CBs to earn a first round selection. In the NFL, CBs overcome size mismatches with sound technique.
I hate to say it because I agree with everyone talking about what Baldwin SHOULD be, but you'd think that if he were ever going to step up, it would have been last year when the receiving corps was so thin and decimated by injuries. I kept expecting him to emerge last season and it just never happened. So, at this point, I'm very skeptical.