CB situation

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
still a lot of maybe's there. is definitely a problem if Ward can't participate in camp because he has to learn two positions. but if he's an aggressive guy hell find his way on the field one way or another. It's possible one of our starting corners is not on the roster yet.

what makes you think this? And Ward can't participate in camp because he doesn't know how to play CB or safety,which he played both college?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Brock, Reid, Bethea and Spillman are the locks.

Other side of Brock - Cully, Cox or Cookie. We'll just have to see about Cully's status (recovery and/or league discipline?) throughout TC and preseason. I'm okay with Cox (he's solid), but if anyone (Cookie, Johnson, Acker or whomever) can unseat Cox, then that's saying a lot right there.

Morris is doing his part to play the slot... did all he was asked to do in OTAs and it seemed like he impressed the coaches. He's the fastest, not afraid to hit someone going full throttle and has serious closing speed. The rookie yr is out of the way, he's focused and determined to win that spot. Did I mention he has serious closing speed

Ward was a smart pick (put him anywhere / backs up any spot), but I don't think he'll be a full starter this year unless someone gets hurt or a couple of guys don't pan out and get cut/practice squad. Ward will be competing with Morris and (IF) he beats him out, then it will be Morris that will be the back up to Ward. IMO, we're good with either one playing the slot. Of all the rookie DBs, Ward (of course) is the lock even though he is still recovering from injury (unless coaches think otherwise).

If Johnson and Acker step up and makes it (seriously) difficult for coaches to decide which one hits the PS, then that's a plus and definitely helps solidify our secondary.

Dahl, Mc Cray Cray, Ventrone and DJ Campbell... we'll see but..............

I seriously disagree here. IMHO, there isn't anyone on the roster who's better, more tailor made, than Ward for the nickle spot - NOBODY! Granted, Ward will have to earn his way on the field, as it should be. But lets face it, he's a first rounder, so hell get EVERY chance to earn the starting nickleback job. I remember last season many Zoners were saying the same thing about one Eric Reid and doubting him, and I thought then, as I think of Ward now, that he'd be our opening day starter. Now, I like Morris and hope we find a way to keep him on the 53. He'd be a starter on most teams. But I fully expect that Ward WILL earn that nickle spot, and I may be among the few here who thinks that. So for me there isn't an "IF" about it. Jimmie Ward will be a full participant for the REAL training camp when real jobs are on the line. And the fact he was held out of the rookie & voluntary camp will have absolutely no baring whatsoever on his ability to earn the starting nickle/slot CB spot. The guy had a Jones fracture, that he didn't even know he had until he had the routine medical examination at the scouting combine. Hell, many people that get this injury don't even know they have this fracture, especially athletes. In fact, Ward said he didn't even feel it, nor did he have any symptoms from it. I think people are making WAY too much of Ward not being at camp.


IMHO

I was waiting for you to find my comment (possible Ward/Morris dilemma), then quote me on it... what took you so long?

First off, about Reid, some in here may have had doubts, but I think many of us (including you/me) had a good feeling he'd pan out... he really had no choice since Goldson split and his first round status came with a lot of expectations. He got a lot of praise by the staff since he was drafted and he stepped up big time (Goldson who?!) There wasn't much after Whitner (Dahl/Spillman) at safety so, Reid was next in line... he only had to prove it in TC/preseason and the job was all his.

Ward really doesn't have the pressure Reid had (filling in shoes in a hurry). We have Brock/Cully and Morris/Cox/Cook/Mc Cray Cray/two other rooks. But stiil, I hope he's all healed up and ready to go full throttle. I think he would go all out even without 100% recovery. He's determined to prove all doubters wrong and mostly prove to himself that he can excel in the next level.

HOWEVER, because of his injury (didn't do much in OTAs), I believe Morris is far ahead of him (physically). Not to mention, he's got a year of the playbook/system down. He knows that Ward is expected to start, but Morris' pride and focus motivates him to make that leap from yr one to yr two.

I hope Ward gives Morris hell at competition. One of them is going to start and the other will be back up... when the back up steps in (be that Ward or Morris) we won't miss a beat. That's going to be one of our strong points in the secondary (IMHO).

BTW, I love Ward's history/story (the underdog all his life)... I'm always down with underdogs and TBH, I want him to be the starter, I don't want our first rounder benchwarming (not at that position). Although, it is clear that Morris is ahead of him as far as the one yr in the system and because he also has a lot of talent and speed (he's no dump truck)

Ward can be a quick learner and he's got the skill set/determination... we'll all be rooting for him. But keep in mind, Morris isn't going to be a little bump that Ward can easily hurdle over. Competition will be good.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

I don't disagree with your logic, It's quite sound. What I differ with you is on the outcome. IMHO, there's nobody on the roster better than Ward at the nickle CB spot, Morris included. IMHO, I think people are putting WAY too much stock in Ward missing rookie & mini camps. IMHO, people are getting way too caught up on the words (injury and surgery) rather than the realities of the condition itself (Jones fracture). Ward's "injury" wasn't even noticed by him until a routine pre-combine exam. Ward felt no symptoms, no pain, (both common for Jones fractures) and was actually fully capable of participating in the combine. In fact, at his pro-day just a month after the combine Ward showed no signs at all of an injury (running a 4.45 40, 38 vertical, and 101 broad jump). Hence, why he'll be fully ready for TC. For me, this was the NFL taking precautions. Ward had already put more than enough on film that not participating in the combine wouldn't have hurt his draft status, and it didn't. Sure, V. Fangio will make him earn it, as he should. So starting out in TC Morris/Cook/Cox will get the "start". (Unlike many, I don't get all lathered up on who "starts" during TC and pre-season games, especially before the first cut-downs.) But the minute this kid is put on the field it's gonna become quite clear who's better for the job. Do n't get me wrong. I'm not dismissing Morris. I like the kid, but he ain't no Jimmie Ward. And V. Fangio and JH aren't stubborn fools either. They are gonna field the best 11, rookie or not. I don't care how "ahead" Morris is over Ward, IMHO Morris is nowhere near the defender that Ward is, and that's why he'll get the start!!

Clearly, it was the staff that just wanted to give Ward more time to rest (no need to rush) even though the injury isn't serious... eliminating any chance of a set back. That gave him more time to read up on the playbook and spectate a little. The coaches pretty much know about his skill set/abilities, but the real test is yet to come. Morris has already been tested at the pro level (very minimal at CB). The staff has a feel on him already and the potential he has is yet to be displayed. The true test is coming...

TBH, I want Ward to be the starter, but to mention Morris is "nowhere near the defender that Ward is" ... I just need to see them compete in TC/preseason and maybe a few real games. I think it would be better if Ward convincingly takes the job by command in camp (no surprise if he does). That way, Morris can be the solid back up, but still do most of his damage on ST (where we really need his speed).

Morris vs. Ward should be an interesting battle.

Morris only played 7 defensive snaps last year.

So Morris doesn't have much NFL game experience(playing defense), but he has been learning the defensive system for over a year.

That experience gives him an edge.

Ward, on the other hand, may have a better skill set.

Should be fun to watch.

Originally posted by buck:
Morris vs. Ward should be an interesting battle.

Morris only played 7 defensive snaps last year.

So Morris doesn't have much NFL game experience(playing defense), but he has been learning the defensive system for over a year.

That experience gives him an edge.

Ward, on the other hand, may have a better skill set.

Should be fun to watch.

Can you list what games Morris played the 7 defensive snaps in?

Reid, Ward, Morris, Johson, Culliver, Brock...all 25 years of age or under...nice bunch of guys to build on for the next five years. Morris and Johnson are question marks but they have speed, intelligence and great coaches!

One thing that will help these young CBs is that the safety tandem is smart. I know this thread is about the CBs, but the experience from Bethea and smarts from Reid will aid the CBs greatly. If I was forced to have inexperience at either the CB or safety position, I would easily pick the CB position. Smart safeties can shout out pre-snap coverage audibles to help defend what they think it about to unfold. The young CBs can lean on the safety tandem throughout the year.

Originally posted by thl408:
One thing that will help these young CBs is that the safety tandem is smart. I know this thread is about the CBs, but the experience from Bethea and smarts from Reid will aid the CBs greatly. If I was forced to have inexperience at either the CB or safety position, I would easily pick the CB position. Smart safeties can shout out pre-snap coverage audibles to help defend what they think it about to unfold. The young CBs can lean on the safety tandem throughout the year.

This is sooooo so true! IQ is critical esp. in our schemes under Fangio. Plus the skill sets of Reid/Bethea should be outstanding being able to have excellent range (esp. Reid) from sideline-to-sideline and Bethea who can play anywhere...and is esp. good in run support playing downhill with his recognition IQ. Add in a positive rotating pass rush and stout DL and suddenly you don't "need" a shutdown CB (or two).

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by buck:

Morris vs. Ward should be an interesting battle.

Morris only played 7 defensive snaps last year.

So Morris doesn't have much NFL game experience(playing defense), but he has been learning the defensive system for over a year.

That experience gives him an edge.

Ward, on the other hand, may have a better skill set.

Should be fun to watch.

Can you list what games Morris played the 7 defensive snaps in?

No. I cannot.

If anybody has the premium stats from PFF, he can find the game-by-game snap count for each player.

If I remember correctly, you can find the snap count per game for a player by clicking on his name.

The snap counts are from:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts


EDIT: I checked the site above and I can get the games he played in. I am getting them now it will take some time.

done

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by buck:
Morris vs. Ward should be an interesting battle.

Morris only played 7 defensive snaps last year.

So Morris doesn't have much NFL game experience(playing defense), but he has been learning the defensive system for over a year.

That experience gives him an edge.

Ward, on the other hand, may have a better skill set.

Should be fun to watch.

Can you list what games Morris played the 7 defensive snaps in?

probably the seattle game at the stick. towards the end of the game a cb or two got dinged up and i remember him being in there.

Originally posted by thl408:

Can you list what games Morris played the 7 defensive snaps in?

OK. I went through the regular season and the play offs.

Darryl Morris played 7 defensive snaps during the regular season and 1 defensive snap in the play offs,

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by thl408:
Can you list what games Morris played the 7 defensive snaps in?

OK. I went through the regular season and the play offs.

Darryl Morris played 7 defensive snaps during the regular season and 1 defensive snap in the play offs,

it shows 3 vs seattle in week 14 aswell

Originally posted by crabman82:

probably the seattle game at the stick. towards the end of the game a cb or two got dinged up and i remember him being in there.

Got those. On page 18 of the Morris thread I cut up those 3 defensive snaps.

When buck mentioned that Morris had 7 total defensive snaps, I was curious when the other 4 occurred.

Thanks, buck! I'll try to hint those snaps down and show what he did.

Buck and thl408 - true football nerds!

The other 4 plays that Morris played in were garbage time.

STL week 4: Bradford kneels down 3 times to end the game.
HOU week 5: last play of the game, HOU runs off tackle to end the game (49ers win in blowout). Morris did not factor into the outcome of the play.
SEA week 14: 3 actual meaningful snaps shown in the Morris thread page 18.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Buck and thl408 - true football nerds!

th1408 really understands the game.

I just like the game and looking for information.


But, thanks--I think. Is being a nerd a good thing?