There are 135 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

All22 analysis: Red Zone issues

Originally posted by thl408:
Good point. It's a bit surprising how often they go empty backfield (3x2) in the red zone. They did it again versus HOU post#8 on 3rd down. I have a hunch we'll see more of it.

I think the problem last year when going empty was kaep wasn't gonna provide the running attack that he did in the '12 playoffs seemingly to conserve his healthy and we really only had like 3 actual nfl targets going empty. My feeling is in '14 this is gonna be a deadly formation with the new found targets.
Originally posted by Niners816:
I think the problem last year when going empty was kaep wasn't gonna provide the running attack that he did in the '12 playoffs seemingly to conserve his healthy and we really only had like 3 actual nfl targets going empty. My feeling is in '14 this is gonna be a deadly formation with the new found targets.

Agreed. We have more capable targets this year. My problem with the empty sets last year was we were so weak at WR, often times we'd motion Miller or Gore out wide. I love both players, but that's not a skill set they possess. It was basically a gimmick. If we're going empty set, put real pass catchers out there.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by thl408:
3rd down on post #8 (HOU). I really do not like the route ran by Baldwin (bad play design). He needs to threaten vertically in order to hold the safety on that side of the field. Because he didn't threaten vertically, the safety was not obligated to honor his deep zone, was able to roam over and ended up influencing VD into alligator arming that pass. It's tough to tell, but it seems like that safety breaks towards VD before Kap even starts his throwing motion. I don't think the safety does that had Baldwin threatened that safety's deep zone.

I agree....That's was a very lazy route on his part. How the hell do you roll into a hook.

I was referring to the route he was given to run. The play design itself. I feel it needed to go vertical to give VD some room on his skinny post.
Originally posted by thl408:
I was referring to the route he was given to run. The play design itself. I feel it needed to go vertical to give VD some room on his skinny post.

I agree with that also, however I don't like the way he ran the route he was given. If Baldwin is gonna carve a spot on this roster or a place in the nfl he has to improve his route running.

Perhaps a scissors type route combo by hunter and Baldwin would have been a better choice, that way Baldwin could threaten the corner and hunter has the deep over post that should have given vd a wider window.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
#5
The score is 31-3 in the 4th quarter. Context lost in the stats.
1st down: Gore for +4


2nd down: Dixon for +1.


3rd down: Dixon for +1
[ Edited by thl408 on Jun 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM ]
^^^^given the score and situation, i really have no problem with just pounding the ball. A Playaction might have been rubbing it in. However, I would have liked to see a toss with a faster back. I think it would have served the purpose of getting some tosses on film especially in a goal to go situation and given the way Houston was stacking the line it might have popped loose.
Originally posted by thl408:


Boldin tosses Thurmond to the side. Kap does not pull the trigger.

By the time Kap looks back to Boldin, the window is closed as the SEA secondary reacts to Boldin. Kap throws it away once he's pressured. Incomplete pass.





I've been going over a lot of Stevie Johnson and Brandon Lloyd games from the past few years (thanks NFL Game Rewind) and it's clear that this is the kind of play those guys will help us out on. SJ13 is 100% unjammable. Not even the best corners like Revis and Sherman can do it. Teams basically had to resort to playing zone against him or having the corner play way off.

Lloyd, on the other hand, doesn't get of the jam anywhere near as well but he still has the ball skills to make catches against Sherman.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
#6
1st and goal
49ers: triangle stretch concept using rollout right play action.
ARI: cover0 spy (MLB)


Kap completes his play action fake to Gore and starts his rollout. Moore's curl (#14) is covered by a LB in the throwing lane. Gore is well covered. Boldin is about to exit his break on the out route.


Once Boldin breaks to the outside, Kap pulls the trigger. PPeterson has a fist full of Boldin's jersey.


Jersey grab. Good ball placement from Kap. Nice defensive play from PPeterson to rip Boldin's arm downwards, preventing him from securing the pass.


Incomplete pass


2nd down
49ers: counter right. Guard lead (Iupati) with Vance also coming across the formation


After faking the flow to the left, Gore comes back to take the handoff with Iupati and Vance leading. Iupati targets his kickout block.


Iupati completely misses the block and that defender takes Gore down for a no gain.


Not sure the play had a chance for much even if Iupati had stuck his block. ARI's LBs filled nicely.


3rd down
ARI: cover0


ARI rushes 7 with no safety coverage. Kap must make a quick throw and targets VD on the crossing route.


The SS Bell makes a nice defensive play and swats the pass away. Bring on the FG unit.


^^^just gotta tip your cap to Peterson on the first down play. I like the call and the throw. On third down, we must really like that post over a hook combo, because we've seen that a few times now.
Already said but SEA plays an incredibly smart, guys stay in place, or move to proper position , Defense. The route running overall is not crisp, and I keep thinking, instead of KW, Baldwin, and Vernon on those routes, what if: crabs, Anquan, Stevie? I think that would have been vastly different. 3 guys running great routes, will be very interesting as to how SEA covers crisply run routes.

also impressed by how complicated these passing plays actually are. I sure don't remember them that way, but then again, I didn't look at coach's film either. Rather than being so hard on roman, I should have been harder on TE and WRs coach. Crappy routes don't get it against the elites. But roman was the one calling the plays, so no love there.

Lastly, kap. Wow, this highlights what I recall. He is VERY slow to pick up on a receiver, and definitely isn't throwing on the break, and many times isn't throwing until AFTER the receiver is no longer open. That was obvious in game time and now in slo mo. Easy to see why kap had so few INTS. He really holds onto the ball, and even with that cannon appears to NOT want to throw into a tight space, yet he is the one QB we have had who actually could do it. Needs to see stuff quicker, throw earlier...but his INTs will go up too.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Jun 17, 2014 at 2:35 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
The score is 31-3 in the 4th quarter. Context lost in the stats.
1st down: Gore for +4


2nd down: Dixon for +1.


3rd down: Dixon for +1

Hey I'm not football coach but this CLEARLY shows what we need to improve upon. We've all said it a million times. All the defense needs to do to shoot the gap is to follow the FB to the hole. It's a gimme. To me, it's lazy, unimaginative, ego based play calling.

We need to keep the defense off guard. Roman REALLY needs to learn how to mix it up a bit.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
#7
1st down:
49ers: Counter right.


Notice the peculiar way the Oline has lined up. Vance is playing RT. ADavis is playing LT. Staley is playing as a TE.


ADavis and Iupati will pull to the right. Boone and Vance double team the block at the point of attack. Kap fakes the fly sweep to KW.


Gore takes the handoff. Iupati and ADavis crush their blocks. Boone is not square to the defender he is blocking, just leaning in with one shoulder. Gore sees the lane.


Boone lets the block slip and the defender wraps up Gore.


Notice the step Gore takes towards the left before going back to his right to take the handoff, to give an element of misdirection. Watch how Boone lets the double team block slip away. Gore for +5 yards.


2nd down & 5
49ers: Pull Iupati with a FB lead to the weak side.


The DL slants hard to the inside making Staley whiff on the block. This causes Iupati to stumble and unable to pull to the other side of the formation. The two blue defenders will track this play down.


Gore for a loss of -2.


3rd down & 7
ARI: cover0 (rushing 7 defenders)


Kap takes a 1 step drop and targets the backside slant to Baldwin. The pass is knocked down at the line of scrimmage by #58.


Same time as picture above. The CB is breaking on the throw. It would have been a close call and a chance for Baldwin to use his frame to shield the defender.


Incomplete pass. Bring on the FG unit.
^^^ first down looks like a cute way to run the Lombardi sweep. Go unbalance to the fake side and pull them back. That looks like a play that could have a kaep option run somewhere attached to it.

I like the third down backside slant, I have a feeling I'm gonna like it even more going to an isolated crabs, boldin or SJ this season
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
Originally posted by Niners816:
^^^ first down looks like a cute way to run the Lombardi sweep. Go unbalance to the fake side and pull them back. That looks like a play that could have a kaep option run somewhere attached to it.

I like the third down backside slant, I have a feeling I'm gonna like it even more going to an isolated crabs, boldin or SJ this season

Two tendencies that stick out from the two ARI red zone possessions thus far. The 49ers wanted to run to the weak side of the formation. ARI brings the heat on Kap when he drops back to throw - man to man, no safety help, heavy pressure. ARI had lots of confidence playing man coverage on the outside. This means they liked the matchup of their CBs on the 49ers WRs and who can blame them with KW the #2 and Baldwin the #3.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 5,078
Originally posted by pete98146:
Originally posted by thl408:
The score is 31-3 in the 4th quarter. Context lost in the stats.
1st down: Gore for +4


2nd down: Dixon for +1.


3rd down: Dixon for +1


Hey I'm not football coach but this CLEARLY shows what we need to improve upon. We've all said it a million times. All the defense needs to do to shoot the gap is to follow the FB to the hole. It's a gimme. To me, it's lazy, unimaginative, ego based play calling.

We need to keep the defense off guard. Roman REALLY needs to learn how to mix it up a bit.

I mentioned the game situation above. It must be considered when analyzing this particular red zone possession.